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Thread: Mindset of these forums

  1. #1
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    Mention of the President and Liberals on this forum.

    This sort of talk from about a constitutional lawyer is disheartening. Civics is not lost on constitutional attorneys but it was lost on the knee jerk reaction of the former president who decided it was okay to tap phones of its citizens with gag orders attached.

    'Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.' Benjamin Franklin

    The talk of liberals taking away freedoms are tiresome on this forum. Does everyone forget the RIGHT trying to impose theocracy on people?

    "I took an oath to protect the people of this country." - President George W. Bush

    "Actually you took an oath to uphold and protect the CONSTITUTION which in turn protects and defends the people." - Me

    Since this is my first post let me introduce myself. I am a well educated, active duty military currently in the middle east as I type. I carry concealed herewhen I am outside the wire and will be relocating from the San Antonio,Texas(sanctuary city)to the great state of Virginia on orders when I get back home in a few more months.

    I am an advocate of for weapons, hate unions, a true believer in Government healthcare. I am against affirmative action (its time has come and gone), for the ACLU when it comes to major issues (overturned the patriot act which violated attorney client privalege and .

    I am a secular and can defend my lack of circular self serving logic that many religions bring to the table by stating that the Federal Bureau of Prisons statistics on religion of inmates. Atheists (secular) equate to 8%-15% of the population of this country and account for .06 of all inmates in prison.

    I intend on open carrying a glock 23 when I get to Virginia; my wife will carry a glock 19. I will later list several incidents that have occured in San Antonio while residing there that more than justify my wifecarrying a weapon.These same stories will reflect that total disregard of illegal immigrants of the law.

    I am an American doing my part to defend my country, and exercise my rights. Please get off the liberals are evil horse since I too earn my money but believe in reform. I feel the welfare system lacks oversight to the point of failure.

    I believe that treating 30M illegal immigrants with healthcare and education on my dollar is against the basic intent of government. Government exists to serve first and foremost its tax payers.

    I think that republicans are a bit out of their minds with the whole stay out of our houses and away from our guns, but come into our bedrooms and make laws about abortion. Its okay to tap our phones because we got attacked by a few terrorists, but out of the other side of your mouth you claim the democrats are trying to take away your rights.

    Government healthcare equates to me not working my entire life and than coming down with say cancer. All my investments and hard earned money does not mean squat when I get hospital bills that cost what they do for treatment that I need. Socialism is that after my paying with every penny I have and going into debt, I then qualify for medicare to continue treatment. The other person who had $25K in credit card debt and never had a house to sell qualifies without sustaining the loss that I just did. THAT is socialism. That is when everything you did financially your entire life amounts to squat because you became sick and you had health insurance. THAT is not the American Dream!

    I have noticed too much blame on one party when clearly people are overgeneralizing what a liberal is. I am an eco-friendly military member, who packs a glock 23 openly when I am in a state that allows it. People are spoiled and criminals are not scary to me, but an annoyance. I have seen the real big baddies who want to do more than take my TV, but I refuse to be walked on by some coward who thinks that $100 is alot of money and working for it takes too much time.

    I think with my brain and don't vote because some guy goes to a church that I do but because he potentially do a better job at supporting many issues that we as Americans have asked our leaders to address. I will be posting an alternative view about many issues but an intelligent one.

    No I am not a democrat but simply a civics minded voter who feels that people forget thatwe are at war and would vote onjacked up priorities such as if their neighbors Bob and Jack can get married rather thanwho can conduct federal business as an adult and protect the constitution. I don't vote parties I vote policies and reality check to the members of this forum, bad people are the cause of problems. Uninformed voters are the cause of problems, lack of accountability, soft judges, and in my own humble opinon, A COMPLETE LACK OF ARMED CITIZENS THAT DO NOT SIT IDLE WHILE CRIMES ARE COMMITED.

    Carry the weapon, make a difference, but stop blaming people. Senator McCain was no harder on illegals than President O'bama as they stood the same on the issue. Infallable conservitives have made many bad laws, and same with democrats.

    Be responsible but blame is not helpful. Create answers, solutions, and write your representitives to enact them. Stay informed, vote with thought.

    ::end soapbox::



  2. #2
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    PointofView,

    Welcome to the forum,and I want to thank you for your service to our country. Stay safe, and we all wish you a speedy return to your family here in the USA.

    You're going to like VA--it's an "open carry" state, and a lot more 2A-friendly than Texas. I lived in Northern VA for 15 years, and found it to be a nice place to live, but the traffic there is INSANE...

    Thanks for your post--it was intelligent, lucid, and well-formed. I'm sort of in your camp--I don't consider myself a Republican or Democrat--I vote the issues, not the party. I'm registered as an "independent", and vote for the candidate I feel best serves my interests.

    I look forward to more posts from you, and especially to your thoughts on OC and CC. I'm especially interested to hear how you like VA once you get back.

    Keep us updated, and hopefully you'll be back on US soil soon!
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    I would also like to say thank you for your service to our country and welcome aboard. You will find Virginia to be perhaps the most gun-friendly and lenient state in the South for those who wish to carry open or concealed.

    While I disagree with you on several of your stated issues, I would imagine there will be more common ground that not on many issues. Respect and civility is a big issue with me.. something more people on this site might wish to adapt themselves - they know who they are.

    Again, welcome and thanks.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Outstanding post. Unfortunately, it will fall on deaf ears.

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    Great post. Your concerns are exactly why I feel the two party system is broken. Without trying to seem too radical, I believe we as a people need to take back OUR government. Armed people are citizens, unarmed people are subjects.

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    Does everyone forget the RIGHT trying to impose theocracy on people?
    Welcome to the forum and thank you for your service to our country. When did this occur?

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    Since when is anyone who is against "the left" automatically on "the right"?

    Can't we be firmly in the center and be against both?

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    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Armond Reese wrote:
    Since when is anyone who is against "the left" automatically on "the right"?

    Can't we be firmly in the center and be against both?
    I'm a conventional liberal who's against hard leftists and their ideology.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    Well a simple example is gay marriage. When did the government start performing religious ceremony? Does the government do first communion? Do they do confirmations? Why should the government step in and regulate what is essentially a tax plan between two individuals and the government. When did the church become part of an individuals freedom of marriage.

    Marriage can be done by a Justice of the Peace. This is not a religious ceremony at all but a series of legal promises, and at the same time as is customary promises between the individuals.

    The religious right has turned this into a matter to gain support in making a non government concern, one of the government. All the while claiming less government is the objective.

    Do you see the push of individuals to supporting this cause to ensure that freedoms are limited to their own religious subscriptions?

    When in short would be the last two elections when the right ran on claim of conservitism as an excuse to bring the government into realms it should not be. People are too quick to point fingers in politics vs seeing the own irony in their cause.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Regards

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    [img]file:///C:/Users/Brad/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.png[/img][img]file:///C:/Users/Brad/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.png[/img]Since when is anyone who is against "the left" automatically on "the right"?

    Can't we be firmly in the center and be against both?



    Do or do not there is no try. - Yoda

    Now how do I get this thing to quote? I tried replying with the quote, no dice. So my copy paste method is working as a utility I suppose.



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    Thanks for your service to this great country ! Other than that, you and I differ on several concerns, and agree on a few.

    Sounds to me like you don't like the convictions of many on here, but your typings expect that many on here should advocate your convictions. You'll make a good politician someday.

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    Ever consider becoming the leader of the Libertarian Party in the U.S. ?

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    Seeing that you like the Star Wars quotes... after reading your initial post, "I feel the conflict within you." You will find much dialog here...

    PointofView wrote:
    I am a secular and can defend my lack of circular self serving logic that many religions bring to the table by stating that the Federal Bureau of Prisons statistics on religion of inmates. Atheists (secular) equate to 8%-15% of the population of this country and account for .06 of all inmates in prison.
    Or..... given ample time to ponder the error of their ways.... that 8-15% changes their mind, leaving almost no atheists actually in prison...

    I suppose the only way to nail this down for sure would be to survey the status of inmates as they enter incarceration, and follow those same inmates with subsequent surveys in the months and years that follow. And then somehow determine if they are answering the survey honestly...

    In any case, basing world-view decisions on the behavior of criminals may not be the wisest move.

    TFred


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    TFred wrote:
    Seeing that you like the Star Wars quotes... after reading your initial post, "I feel the conflict within you." You will find much dialog here...

    PointofView wrote:
    I am a secular and can defend my lack of circular self serving logic that many religions bring to the table by stating that the Federal Bureau of Prisons statistics on religion of inmates. Atheists (secular) equate to 8%-15% of the population of this country and account for .06 of all inmates in prison.
    Or..... given ample time to ponder the error of their ways.... that 8-15% changes their mind, leaving almost no atheists actually in prison...

    I suppose the only way to nail this down for sure would be to survey the status of inmates as they enter incarceration, and follow those same inmates with subsequent surveys in the months and years that follow. And then somehow determine if they are answering the survey honestly...

    In any case, basing world-view decisions on the behavior of criminals may not be the wisest move.

    TFred
    I am making this based on the lack of criminals. See the stats, what would they convert to? At .209% this would be a complete 360 turn on their part. We use stats to defend carrying laws for weapons. This is no different. See below and let me know what you think!

    Code:
    The Federal Bureau of Prisons does have statistics on religious
    affiliations of inmates.  The following are total number of
    inmates per religion category:
    
    Response              Number      %
    ----------------------------  --------
    Catholic               29267   39.164%
    Protestant             26162   35.008%
    Muslim                  5435    7.273%
    American Indian         2408    3.222%
    Nation                  1734    2.320%
    Rasta                   1485    1.987%
    Jewish                  1325    1.773%
    Church of Christ        1303    1.744%
    Pentecostal             1093    1.463%
    Moorish                 1066    1.426%
    Buddhist                 882    1.180%
    Jehovah Witness          665    0.890%
    Adventist                621    0.831%
    Orthodox                 375    0.502%
    Mormon                   298    0.399%
    Scientology              190    0.254%
    Atheist                  156    0.209%
    Hindu                    119    0.159%
    Santeria                 117    0.157%
    Sikh                      14    0.019%
    Bahai                      9    0.012%
    Krishna                    7    0.009%
    ----------------------------  --------
    Total Known Responses  74731  100.001% (rounding to 3 digits does this)
    
    
    Unknown/No Answer      18381
    ----------------------------
    Total Convicted        93112  80.259% (74731) prisoners' religion is known.
    
    Code:
    Judeo-Christian Total  62594   83.761% (of the 74731 total responses)
    Total Known Responses  74731
    
    Not unexpected as a result. Note that atheists, being a moderate proportion of the USA population (about 8-16%) are disproportionately less in the prison populations (0.21%).


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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Didn't want to quote the whole post... but I think you missed my point.

    The stats do not reveal how long the inmates had been incarcerated at the time of the survey. What if that 8-15% came into the system as atheists, but by the time of the survey, having had time to ponder the error of their criminal (and perhaps other) ways, converted to one of the other religious worldviews.

    That is why I said you would need a tracking poll in order to be able to draw any meaningful conclusion about it.

    TFred


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    Well I would say that the other religions who got themselves there may have given up religion while in prison since it apparently didn't work out for them. The faith may be gone from them and they start to find it hard to believe, and become the latter. So I am sure some balance is to be had in that, but other stats do exist but I would say separate topic, and even a bit off of the opencarry.com intent.

    I do understand what you are saying but with the fluctuation of inmates coming and going due to sentences it would be a real tough organization process.

    Good thought though. I would love to see those numbers but I would not be too confident that this is the case.

    V/R



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    Here's the site you were looking for, http://passionateskeptic.blogspot.co...religious.html



    This is an Open Carry Pro 2nd amendment site.

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    PointofView wrote:
    Mention of the President and Liberals on this forum.

    This sort of talk from about a constitutional lawyer is disheartening. Civics is not lost on constitutional attorneys but it was lost on the knee jerk reaction of the former president who decided it was okay to tap phones of its citizens with gag orders attached.

    'Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.' Benjamin Franklin

    The talk of liberals taking away freedoms are tiresome on this forum. Does everyone forget the RIGHT trying to impose theocracy on people?

    Hmmmm..... this country was founded on Christian principles... hence it would be logical that the country follow those Christian principles.

    "I took an oath to protect the people of this country." - President George W. Bush

    "Actually you took an oath to uphold and protect the CONSTITUTION which in turn protects and defends the people." - Me

    Thanks to Glen Beck, Fox News, and conservative talk radio, I now understand that "Democrat" (Left) and "Republican" (Right) are just shades of the same "progressive" agenda... and both share the blame for screwing up our country.

    I agree with you about those "progressives" having taken an oath to protect the Constitution... but they ignored it/are ignoring it instead. And I don't see Obama being any better at following his oath either.

    Since this is my first post let me introduce myself. I am a well educated, active duty military currently in the middle east as I type. I carry concealed herewhen I am outside the wire and will be relocating from the San Antonio,Texas(sanctuary city)to the great state of Virginia on orders when I get back home in a few more months.

    Thank you for putting your butt on the line so my butt doesn't have to deal with terrorists here at home.

    I am an advocate of for weapons, hate unions, a true believer in Government healthcare. I am against affirmative action (its time has come and gone), for the ACLU when it comes to major issues (overturned the patriot act which violated attorney client privalege and .

    I am a secular and can defend my lack of circular self serving logic that many religions bring to the table by stating that the Federal Bureau of Prisons statistics on religion of inmates. Atheists (secular) equate to 8%-15% of the population of this country and account for .06 of all inmates in prison.

    I gave up on organized "religion" a long time ago since "religion" comes from man making rules for God. I prefer to deal with Him directly. But that is just my beliefs in that area... everyone else is free to believe what ever they wish to.. or wish not to.

    However... inmates in prisons learn quickly that one of the ways to suck up and be treated nicer is to suddenly "get religion".... so I am skeptic about statistics about religion in prison.

    I intend on open carrying a glock 23 when I get to Virginia; my wife will carry a glock 19. I will later list several incidents that have occured in San Antonio while residing there that more than justify my wifecarrying a weapon.These same stories will reflect that total disregard of illegal immigrants of the law.

    I am an American doing my part to defend my country, and exercise my rights. Please get off the liberals are evil horse since I too earn my money but believe in reform. I feel the welfare system lacks oversight to the point of failure.

    Please understand that the word "liberal" has undergone a change in meaning in the past little while and now is more often synonymous with "radical leftist" than it's original meaning. Kinda like how the meaning of the word "gay" changed.

    I believe that treating 30M illegal immigrants with healthcare and education on my dollar is against the basic intent of government. Government exists to serve first and foremost its tax payers.

    The true role of government is NOT to serve it's taxpayers... it's role is outlined quite nicely in the Constitution and has much to do with protecting the country by keeping the borders secure and defending against enemys... but has precious little to do with serving the taxpayers.

    I think that republicans are a bit out of their minds with the whole stay out of our houses and away from our guns, but come into our bedrooms and make laws about abortion. Its okay to tap our phones because we got attacked by a few terrorists, but out of the other side of your mouth you claim the democrats are trying to take away your rights.

    If one looks carefully at the "Republican" vs "Democrat" in relation to which one is screwing up the country it is plain to see both are guilty. Neither one is any better, or worse, than the other although Democrats do it faster.

    Government healthcare equates to me not working my entire life and than coming down with say cancer. All my investments and hard earned money does not mean squat when I get hospital bills that cost what they do for treatment that I need. Socialism is that after my paying with every penny I have and going into debt, I then qualify for medicare to continue treatment. The other person who had $25K in credit card debt and never had a house to sell qualifies without sustaining the loss that I just did. THAT is socialism. That is when everything you did financially your entire life amounts to squat because you became sick and you had health insurance. THAT is not the American Dream!

    Uh oh... we certainly disagree on the health care thing because............. why should your investments and hard earned money be protected by tapping into my investments and hard earned money to pay for your cancer? Or... why should your investments and hard earned money be used to pay for my cancer?

    Whenever one segment of society gets free stuff from another segment of society... that is Socialism. Doesn't matter if that free stuff is cash for clunkers or health care... someone who didn't get that car, or didn't get cancer, paid for it.


    I have noticed too much blame on one party when clearly people are overgeneralizing what a liberal is. I am an eco-friendly military member, who packs a glock 23 openly when I am in a state that allows it. People are spoiled and criminals are not scary to me, but an annoyance. I have seen the real big baddies who want to do more than take my TV, but I refuse to be walked on by some coward who thinks that $100 is alot of money and working for it takes too much time.

    I think with my brain and don't vote because some guy goes to a church that I do but because he potentially do a better job at supporting many issues that we as Americans have asked our leaders to address. I will be posting an alternative view about many issues but an intelligent one.

    I think you will find that many who frequent this forum also have a brain and know how to use it. I am quite sure many folks here, and out there all over the country, actually do think beyond what they hear in church... or on TV... or what their local/regional/State/Federal politician says.. and vote according to what they have been able to objectively think through. I am absolutely sure that those who voted for Obama were not using their brains but were so eager for something new they only heard what they wanted to hear when Obama spoke... and followed like lemmings. To be fair... McCain wouldn't have been any better... just a slower walk down the same "progressive" road.

    No I am not a democrat but simply a civics minded voter who feels that people forget thatwe are at war and would vote onjacked up priorities such as if their neighbors Bob and Jack can get married rather thanwho can conduct federal business as an adult and protect the constitution. I don't vote parties I vote policies and reality check to the members of this forum, bad people are the cause of problems. Uninformed voters are the cause of problems, lack of accountability, soft judges, and in my own humble opinon, A COMPLETE LACK OF ARMED CITIZENS THAT DO NOT SIT IDLE WHILE CRIMES ARE COMMITED.

    Actually... 100 years of "progressive" policies in government and education is the real problem. Those policies have changed how people think about the whole "freedom" thing from individuals being born with freedoms the government isn't allowed to take away to.... freedom being only what the government allows people to do. For example... very few people understand that the Bill of Rights is NOT a list of things the government allows citizens to do but is a list of things the citizens will not allow the government to take away. And that change in the American psyche was brought about through slow and gentle nudging through policies and educating our kids.

    By the way... that education in schools and those policies are what caused people to not only be afraid of openly carried guns but to not understand what it is they are seeing when they see a citizen with a gun.

    Carry the weapon, make a difference, but stop blaming people. Senator McCain was no harder on illegals than President O'bama as they stood the same on the issue. Infallable conservitives have made many bad laws, and same with democrats.

    Glad to see you understand that both Republican and Democrat are both to blame.

    Be responsible but blame is not helpful. Create answers, solutions, and write your representitives to enact them. Stay informed, vote with thought.

    On the contrary... blame is helpful if those responsible are blamed for the things they do and that blame sticks enough to get those responsible out of the way so this great country can experience some real "change".... and change back into what it was intended to be... a country filled with free citizens.

    Writing our congresscritters has become an exercise in futility for the most part with letters and phone calls ignored. Some congresscritters actually are trying to do what they were elected for but they are not only few and far between but they are also ridiculed in Congress and in the media.

    The recent elections in Virginia and New Jersey.. and even Dist. 23 in New York... are prime examples of people giving government a mandate to return to common sense. It is a start.


    ::end soapbox::

    My comments are in red...
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    ^And that just summed up the point the OP was making about the mindset of this board.

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    1Grizzly1 wrote:
    Great post. Your concerns are exactly why I feel the two party system is broken. Without trying to seem too radical, I believe we as a people need to take back OUR government. Armed people are citizens, unarmed people are subjects.
    We don't have a two party system both two parties have taken over and have duped the general public into believing they are the only choices. Meanwhile they are both moving steadily towards tyranny.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    1Grizzly1 wrote:
    Great post. Your concerns are exactly why I feel the two party system is broken. Without trying to seem too radical, I believe we as a people need to take back OUR government. Armed people are citizens, unarmed people are subjects.
    +1

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    1Grizzly1 wrote:
    Great post. Your concerns are exactly why I feel the two party system is broken. Without trying to seem too radical, I believe we as a people need to take back OUR government. Armed people are citizens, unarmed people are subjects.
    We don't have a two party system both two parties have taken over and have duped the general public into believing they are the only choices. Meanwhile they are both moving steadily towards tyranny.
    Well said!!!

    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Well I am sure (sarcasm directed at myself) that everyone has ben waiting with baited breath for me to weigh in, so here it is:

    Only those who would take my life or my freedom need fear my firearm, and for those this is a healthy fear that may save their lives.

    There exist those who honestly suppose that eliminating firearms would result in the immediate elimination of evil in the world. These people are idiots. Yet (and unfortunately) they vote.

    The RTKBA is not about hunting, although hunting has its place. The RTKBA is not about simple self-defense, although this is an important natural right. The RTKBA is about defending individual liberty against tyranny.

    In a sense, the ballot box is an exersize of the RTKBA. Every voter is armed with a vote. But crafty criminals seek and in fact always have sought to subvert the ballot box. Should they go too damned far, application of the RTKBA is meant to stop them. I and I believe we all want to take all measures needful and reasonable to keep it from coming to that. Nevertheless, if "the shot heard 'round the world" needs a booster, the Second Amendment was meant to ensure that there is enough vaccine to go around. Clear enuf???

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    Alexcabbie wrote:
    Well I am sure (sarcasm directed at myself) that everyone has ben waiting with baited breath for me to weigh in, so here it is:

    Only those who would take my life or my freedom need fear my firearm, and for those this is a healthy fear that may save their lives.

    There exist those who honestly suppose that eliminating firearms would result in the immediate elimination of evil in the world. These people are idiots. Yet (and unfortunately) they vote.

    The RTKBA is not about hunting, although hunting has its place. The RTKBA is not about simple self-defense, although this is an important natural right. The RTKBA is about defending individual liberty against tyranny.

    In a sense, the ballot box is an exersize of the RTKBA. Every voter is armed with a vote. But crafty criminals seek and in fact always have sought to subvert the ballot box. Should they go too damned far, application of the RTKBA is meant to stop them. I and I believe we all want to take all measures needful and reasonable to keep it from coming to that. Nevertheless, if "the shot heard 'round the world" needs a booster, the Second Amendment was meant to ensure that there is enough vaccine to go around. Clear enuf???


    Truth!

    ...but what does that have to do with what the OP was saying?

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    , California, USA
    Posts
    560

    Post imported post

    Just thought, but signing up for a religion while incarcerated could just be ameans of getting out of the cell for additional activity, and those who might do so could significantly skew the statistics. Just something to break the monotony of year after year.

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