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Thread: Harassed by employee at Sandy Walmart - Good outcome!

  1. #1
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    I'm posting this in the Walmart parking lot. My family and I were shopping at Walmart in Sandy. We had been shopping for about thirty minutes with no troubles at all when a man wearing a Walmart stickers coat came around the corner making a bee-line in my direction. I asked him where the cheese was and he said right there "and you and that gun have to leave the store now!" I said "huh???" and he replied that this town has an ordinance saying no guns. I told him that the state has pre-emtion and he said that means the city over-rules the state. ??? I asked him if he was management and he replied "No, do you want me to get a manager?!" I said yes and he stomped off so we continued shopping.

    As no manager ever showed up I paid for our items then went to Customer Service and asked for the store manager. They said that she was not in but would I like to speak to a co-manager? When Co-Manager Kristi showed up I told her what had happened and asked if this was corporate policy? She said NO and as long as people weren't waving it around they could carry what they wanted. :-). She then asked for info on the employee to "straighten him out". I said that he was probably just opinionated and uninformed and she said that it was none of his business.

    Thanks for all of the info that has been shared on OCDO. I knew what the law said and stood my ground.

    LoveMyCountry
    www.reachtheworld.net

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    LoveMyCountry wrote:
    ...Co-Manager Kristi showed up I...asked if this was corporate policy? She said NO and as long as people weren't waving it around they could carry what they wanted...
    :celebrate

  3. #3
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    I have carried in that Walmart dozens of times with zero confrontations.

    +1 for Kristi

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    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    Great job on seeking the manager when the little storm trooper never returned.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

  5. #5
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    SGT Jensen wrote:
    Great job on seeking the manager when the little storm trooper never returned.
    +1

  6. #6
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    I myself just had a similar experience at the Brigham city wal-mart. I have shopped their ever since I moved up here 2 years ago with no problem. Tonight my wife and I were shopping looking at the Christmas decorations when i noticed one of the wal-mart employees down the isle looking at me, no big deal; so I thought. as we continued shopping another employee that appeared to be a manager approched us from the oppisite end of the isle. He stopped and asked how we were doing and if we were finding everything okay after which he asked if I had a permit to carry that and i qoute "Bad boy". I told him yes and asked to see my CWP. I showed him and he said thanks and have a good night. My question is, Can he ask to see my permit? Did I do the right thing?

  7. #7
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    Yes, he can ask. You should politely refuse. You can then inform him that a concealed firearms permit ALLOWS one to conceal, but does not require it - just as a drivers license allows you to drive but does not require that you drive.

    I would tell him that no permit is needed in the state of Utah to openly carry a firearm.

    I also would not have said "Yes" to his question about if I had a permit - really it's none of his business.

  8. #8
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    Him: Do you have a permit to carry that bad boy?

    Me: A permit isn't required in Utah to openly carry a firearm.

    Him: But you do have a permit?

    Me: As I said, no permit is required. Do you carry a firearm?

    Him: No.

    Me: Why not?

    etc. Change the focus away from you and your firearm. Let him know that you have taken it upon yourself to keep yourself and your family safe. You can even say that you hope you never have to use it, but you'd hate to need it and not have it. Something to that effect lets him know why you carry (which can be beneficial in my opinion), without focusing on whether YOU are legally able to open carry.

  9. #9
    Regular Member UtahJarhead's Avatar
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    Since the manager technically holds the power to boot a person, EVEN IF IT'S AGAINST CORPORATE POLICY as we all know, I think you did right by showing him what he was asking for. He was fairly polite about it, didn't jump the gun and say you couldn't, and I figure by asking to see your permit, he was ensuring you were safe with the gun. I know it's not law to have it, but perhaps it was an ease of mind thing.

    I think you did good.

  10. #10
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    Thanks! I didnt really think he had the right to really ask me but since i didn't really see a problem with it I agreed to show him. At least I didn't get asked to leave, I thought that was pretty cool because from some other wal-mart post's i've read they cause a big scene about it and ask you to leave. Anyways thanks for the reply's.

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    sup, utah brothers!

    I work for wal-mart (i'm a cashier peon; dont take anything i say for yourself. as is always the case, VERIFY FOR YOURSELF so you can be more confident in standing up for your rights!)

    BUT, here ARE a few wal - mart policies and general, probably already-known 'rules of thumb'

    - wal mart's official policy on guns mirrors state law, so if the state allows OC, then OC is permitted in wal mart

    - however wal mart is a private buisness so if they ask you to leave, you have to leave.

    you can state that wal-mart doesnt have a no-gun policy (call the distirct manager to confirm for yourself. store managers/ co managers might be anti gun and/or ignorant)
    you can explain ( as i always do when asked to leave a store ) that i just have a few things to get and dont want to go out to my car, put my gun in my car, and come back in because i dont trust the security of my car - someone can watch me place the gun in the car = free gun for them! :Xso i ask if i can just finish up the shopping quick and get out.
    another thing to try is to ask if anyone has complained. explain the laws and ask that in the future, if there IS a complaint lodged, that it be explained that it's legal as long as the firearm is holstered/plain veiw - etc. some dont care, but it's worth a try.
    (i hate the term weapon. IMO "weapon" denotes i'm using it criminally. i always correct people when the ask about my "weapon". it's a firearm:celebrate.)
    if the still ask you to leave, it's their right as a private buisness to ask that or it's a tresspassing charge on you (not a gun-related charge)
    - ONLY a salaried member of management can ask you to leave the store. cashiers, Customer Service Managers (csm), door greeters, etc are not supposed to confront you about the gun in a negative or challenging way.
    **i love guns, so i always ask OC-ers about the guns. but in a friendly, interested way.

    the Idaho forum has a few good wal-mart related threads if you have any more questions. it sounds like whoever confronted you is on the ignorant side of things. hope this helped for wal-marts and really any troublesome place.

  12. #12
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    Thelukaskezik wrote:
    sup, utah brothers!

    I work for wal-mart (i'm a cashier peon; dont take anything i say for yourself. as is always the case, VERIFY FOR YOURSELF so you can be more confident in standing up for your rights!)

    BUT, here ARE a few wal - mart policies and general, probably already-known 'rules of thumb'

    - wal mart's official policy on guns mirrors state law, so if the state allows OC, then OC is permitted in wal mart

    - however wal mart is a private buisness so if they ask you to leave, you have to leave.

    you can state that wal-mart doesnt have a no-gun policy (call the distirct manager to confirm for yourself. store managers/ co managers might be anti gun and/or ignorant)
    you can explain ( as i always do when asked to leave a store ) that i just have a few things to get and dont want to go out to my car, put my gun in my car, and come back in because i dont trust the security of my car - someone can watch me place the gun in the car = free gun for them! :Xso i ask if i can just finish up the shopping quick and get out.
    another thing to try is to ask if anyone has complained. explain the laws and ask that in the future, if there IS a complaint lodged, that it be explained that it's legal as long as the firearm is holstered/plain veiw - etc. some dont care, but it's worth a try.
    (i hate the term weapon. IMO "weapon" denotes i'm using it criminally. i always correct people when the ask about my "weapon". it's a firearm:celebrate.)
    if the still ask you to leave, it's their right as a private buisness to ask that or it's a tresspassing charge on you (not a gun-related charge)
    - ONLY a salaried member of management can ask you to leave the store. cashiers, Customer Service Managers (csm), door greeters, etc are not supposed to confront you about the gun in a negative or challenging way.
    **i love guns, so i always ask OC-ers about the guns. but in a friendly, interested way.

    the Idaho forum has a few good wal-mart related threads if you have any more questions. it sounds like whoever confronted you is on the ignorant side of things. hope this helped for wal-marts and really any troublesome place.
    Actually, they can ask, but not compel. A read of Utah trespass law will show that for them to prevail, they must prove that your being there substantially interferes with their business.

    76-6-206. Criminal trespass.
    (1) As used in this section, "enter" means intrusion of the entire body.
    (2) A person is guilty of criminal trespass if, under circumstances not amounting to burglary as defined in Section 76-6-202, 76-6-203, or 76-6-204 or a violation of Section 76-10-2402 regarding commercial terrorism:
    (a) he enters or remains unlawfully on property and:
    (i) intends to cause annoyance or injury to any person or damage to any property, including the use of graffiti as defined in Section 76-6-107;
    (ii) intends to commit any crime, other than theft or a felony; or
    (iii) is reckless as to whether his presence will cause fear for the safety of another;
    (b) knowing his entry or presence is unlawful, he enters or remains on property as to which notice against entering is given by:
    (i) personal communication to the actor by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner;
    (ii) fencing or other enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders; or
    (iii) posting of signs reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders; or
    (c) he enters a condominium unit in violation of Subsection 57-8-7(7).
    (3)
    (a) A violation of Subsection (2)(a) or (b) is a class B misdemeanor unless it was committed in a dwelling, in which event it is a class A misdemeanor.
    (b) A violation of Subsection (2)(c) is an infraction.
    (4) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:
    (a) the property was open to the public when the actor entered or remained; and
    (b) the actor's conduct did not substantially interfere with the owner's use of the property.

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    well, i stand corrected! thanks for that!

    the trespassing must be an idaho thing. (i had a PO tell me i'd be charged for trespassing if i didnt leave the Boise Town square mall.)

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    VERY FRIGGIN COOL!!!! i love the liberals who work at walmart that think they actually know stuff

    I'm looking into becoming a police or corrections officer right now, so hopefully if I ever actually do become a cop, I'll be able to help out our cause a bit . starting to look increasingly difficult to become law enforcement in this state though...

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    Thelukaskezik wrote:
    well, i stand corrected! thanks for that!

    the trespassing must be an idaho thing. (i had a PO tell me i'd be charged for trespassing if i didnt leave the Boise Town square mall.)
    Oh, they can charge you with trespassing, and likely will if you refuse to leave, but making it stick in court may be a problem. The other thing to remember is that if you cause a disturbance you could be charged with disorderly conduct.

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    Regular Member UtahJarhead's Avatar
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    Basically, if they ask you to leave, don't try and set a precedent, just leave. If they don't want your money, it's their loss. Wal-Mart generally doesn't have an issue with that, though.

  17. #17
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    I just started to OC here in St. George about 2 months ago.

    I have OCed in the Bloomington Wal-Mart on about 6-7 occasions and have had no problems.

    I think I am the only one in Washington County that OCs. I have lived here in St. George for 25 years, had my CFP for three years and I have never seen anyone else OC inthe St. Georgearea.

    I wish there were more people down here that would OC. I have many friends that have permits and trying to get them to even believe me that it is legal, is a challenge.

    I have tried to steer them to this website and also Utahconcealedcarry.com

    I would welcome some company!!! and I will continue to OC.



  18. #18
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    Rusty_Shackleford wrote:
    I think I am the only one in Washington County that OCs. I have lived here in St. George for 25 years, had my CFP for three years and I have never seen anyone else OC inthe St. Georgearea.
    I am 30 years old, and except for a few military related "vacations", I have spent most of my life in Utah County.

    Other than planned meetings with open carriers, I have never "ran into" another open carrier out of the blue.

    We are a rare breed.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

  19. #19
    Regular Member UtahJarhead's Avatar
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    I've only been in Utah since late 2005 and I've never seen a single person OC except for actual OC events. I've never 'made' anybody that was CC'ing either so far as I can tell. A few possibles, but that's it.

  20. #20
    Regular Member 1Grizzly1's Avatar
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    I live in Sanpete county and OC all of the time. No one even seems to notice and if they do they don't say anything. I was in Walmart twice today OCing an no one even batted an eye. I have never seen anyone else OCing down here.

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    are you tall, grizzly? ive noticed its more easy for people to spot them on shorter people... me being one of them :P

  22. #22
    Regular Member 1Grizzly1's Avatar
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    No I am average height. But I am of "husky":shock: build.

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    I live in Salt Lake County and open carry all the time. I have only had one problem and that was at Costco. I get a lot of people who stare and kids who ask questions. Other then that I get left alone. I think most people don't notice.

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    Athanasia wrote:
    I live in Salt Lake County and open carry all the time. I have only had one problem and that was at Costco. I get a lot of people who stare and kids who ask questions. Other then that I get left alone. I think most people don't notice.
    I think that if you are "Clean Cut" you get harassed less. Also, I always make it a point to be the most polite, friendliest person in the entire establishment. That seems to help also. I have only had one negative comment ever while OC'ing and it was at the Ogden Costco, where I was asked to leave. Other than that, I have had countless positive feedback incidents. Presentation seems to take a large role in how you are treated, although, sometimes you just get the person who doesn't know you aren't doing anything illegal and takes it upon themselves to set you straight. Unfortunately, those people will always be out there.

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    I'm debating on open carrying at Best Buy and Target even though they're full-blown shopping frenzy headquarters.

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