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Thread: Houston woman kills auto burglar.

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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Sealgar wrote:
    link

    Barely enough info to make a preliminary assessment. If the yutes had no weapons, then ...... HankT's Postulate of Civilian Self-Defense© will be applicable in this case.

    For your ready reference, here is the world famous postulate:

    It is a bad strategy to shoot an unarmed person.





    Pregnant Woman Kills Burglar

    Case Referred to Grand Jury

    Andrea Nguyen KIAH

    November 3, 2009

    HPD is still investigating the fatal shooting of a 19-year-old man at the Pinemont Forest Apartments in Northwest Houston. A female tenant, who is eight months pregnant, told police she killed the teen after watching him break into her car from inside her home.

    But was deadly force necessary? Residents had mixed reaction.

    "Her life really wasn't threatened, so she could have easily called police," said tenant Vivian Cullivan.

    "She had every right to take matters into her own hands. If she would have called police, they would have already been gone. If there were more people, they would have attacked her and the baby because she's pregnant," said tenant Rosana Cherrill.

    "Maybe he made a mistake, the economy is bad. But I don't think we should be killing each other," said tenant Dennis Boyett.

    Neighbors say the woman lives in an upstairs apartment. When she saw the suspect allegedly breaking into her car, she took out her shotgun and shot him in the head.

    Police have confiscated the weapon, which they say is actually a 20-gauge shotgun, and they say the woman fired it from her balcony.

    Some neighbors, who are questioning the woman's story, told 39 News off-camera--They believe the woman is covering up for someone else. Police say they're looking into those allegations. She was questioned and released without any charges.

    "It's going to be referred to a Grand Jury at this point. Unless the case reveals something out of the ordinary. For now, it's being referred to a Grand Jury," said Sgt. C. D. Howard, with HPD Homicide.



    http://www.39online.com/news/local/k...,7729153.story



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    It was at night, it was in Texas, it was at the very least criminal mischief -- you can use lethal force -- she's covered.

    Good on her...

    -- John D.


    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    Good shot with a 20-gauge!

    If I remember correctly, one can protect property in addition to one's life.

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    Statkowski wrote:
    Good shot with a 20-gauge!

    If I remember correctly, one can protect property in addition to one's life.
    I don't know about that my friend.

    I have ULTRA sympathy for anyone who shoots a looser who tries to steal there only car, specially a single poor working mom whose only car is getting ripped off.

    "BUT" as far as I know there is no death penalty for stealing, or car burgling for the stereo, that is why I am still alive today because I have been on both sides , as a juvenile thief who ripped off a couple cars for joy rides, burgled a couple houses in the middle of the day (( got away with it all & changed my ways ))

    Then as a young adult who grew up and learned the hard way how lame it is to get ripped off when I worked so hard for my own stuff and changed my ways when I started working for my stuff and valuing it .

    I chased down a motorcycle thief trying to steal my only ride , I car chased them down and got in a rolling shoot out with him and his buddies (( he was X'ed by me ))

    A brutal hard miserable & long story I have not yet decided to relay in depth here.

    But check this out , Example: "stealing" some water from your garden hose for my over heating pickup truck should get me shot ???, I mean after all I am trespassing "and" stealing, right .

    The neighborhood 12 year old walks off with your mower are you gona gun him down ???

    The law was changed in the supreme court about 25 years ago that cops cannot shoot a fleeing ( ohhhh say car burglar ) felon in the back if he is unarmed and not a threat to near by bystanders.

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    This is Texas, not Oregon. The law allows lethal force even for property theft (at night). You don't have to agree with it or like it, but I sure do. So do lots of other Texans apparently.

    Besides, SHE makes the call -- not you or I -- because SHE was there, not you or I. So let the people who were THERE make the call...if they want to scare the POS criminal(s)off, hold them for police, or shoot them, that's THEIR call. Not ours.

    If more people would kill damn criminals when they encounter them, then EVERYONE would be a whole lot better off. And if we had more Joe Horns looking out for their neighbors, that'd be even better.

    As I have said, the only real "justice" any criminal sees is at the hand of an armed citizen. The more dead criminals, the better.

    Good riddance.

    -- John D.


    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    cloudcroft wrote:
    As I have said, the only real "justice" any criminal sees is at the hand of an armed citizen. The more dead criminals, the better.

    Good riddance.

    -- John D.

    Wow.

    Just wowsa.

    :what:



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    Well, crime does carry a certain risk. Please reference "GPFHNTGS."

    Gruu's Postulate For How Not To Get Shot - It is always bad strategy to steal people's sh**. Especially in Texas.

    Please note the powerful knowledge that is being bestowed on all with half a brain.



    -Gruu

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    Amen cloud. You cant reoffend if you aint breathing. And its just so much cheaper than prison. I say open season or straight gulags. No middle ground. :P

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    Personal responsibility. Period. If you do not want to suffer the consequences, do not commit the offense. The Keep It Simple Stupid rule.

    Rev Jim II

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    This reminds me of the time my friend in Texas shot an armed man trying to steal his car. He sleeps, eats, prays, etc. with his Glock 19. After carrying it for 12 years he finally had to use it.

    I was talking to him over VoIP when he told me someone was trying to break into his car. I knew he was packing so i told him not to do anything stupid, i.e shoot an unarmed man.

    While still connected I heard a few commands and then shots. Which went something on the order of, "What do you think your doing?" with a quick two shots.
    The only reason he fired was because when the robber turned my friend saw a handgun in his waist band and acted instantly. He hit the robber in the shoulder once and missed his head by about an inch. The suspect ran away and my friend called the cops. I tell you though for those quick seconds I didn't hear his voice, i was a bit scared.

    When police caught up to the suspect he was bleeding and in a lot of pain. Turns out my friend shot a wanted rapist and murderer. He ended up getting a $2,000 check for it too. Although the police asked for his firearm and he did give it to them for "evidence" or what not and he got it back a few days later. He didn't mind as long as that check was coming.

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    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    cloudcroft wrote:
    If more people would kill damn criminals when they encounter them, then EVERYONE would be a whole lot better off. .....
    As I have said, the only real "justice" any criminal sees is at the hand of an armed citizen. The more dead criminals, the better.

    Good riddance.

    -- John D.

    An armed society is a polite society. ---R. Heinlein
    Remember Peter Nap and Skidmark. Do them proud. Be active. Be well informed. ALL rights matter.

    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when you may have to back up your acts with your life."

    --Robert A. Heinlein

    Hey NSA! *&$# you. Record this--- MOLON LABE!

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    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    We also need the stand your ground laws and castle laws strengthened in Virginia.

    Edited to add: And we may get this with McDonnell!
    Remember Peter Nap and Skidmark. Do them proud. Be active. Be well informed. ALL rights matter.

    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when you may have to back up your acts with your life."

    --Robert A. Heinlein

    Hey NSA! *&$# you. Record this--- MOLON LABE!

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    Yah, I heard the "castle" law referred to the "make my day" law. I laughed.

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    @TehGruu Haha now there's a postulate that I can live by!

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Yes you can use deadly force in Texas for the Protection of Property.

    TEXAS PENAL CODE

    Title 2

    Chapter 9

    Sec.9.41.PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY.(a)A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property.

    (b)A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible, movable property by another is justified in using force against the other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossession and:

    (1)the actor reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or

    (2)the other accomplished the dispossession by using force, threat, or fraud against the actor.

    Sec.9.42.DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY.A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:

    (1)if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and

    (2)when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

    (A)to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or

    (B)to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and

    (3)he reasonably believes that:

    (A)the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or

    (B)the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.


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    10 bucks she said "go ahead, make my day"

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    One of the reasons I really miss Texas. "He needed killin" is a defense to prosecution when dealing with someone involved with "criminal mischief at night".

    It goes back to the days when cattle and horse thieves prowled Texas. Non-Texans don't fully understand or appreciate that the Republic of Texas has enough resources to become its' own country (again).

    OT:
    How many people know that Texas was a REPUBLIC, independent of the United States before it became a state? I remember someone telling me when I lived there that they could legally seceed from the U.S. because they had already been a soverign nation and could become one again if it's citizens so desired. I don't know if that is true or not, but it was an interesting concept and worthy of discussion, but this may not be the right place to do it.

    Sadly they don't allow OC, but hand out CC permits like they were candy. Go figure. (Had to get back on topic, right?)
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    cloudcroft wrote:
    This is Texas, not Oregon. The law allows lethal force even for property theft (at night). You don't have to agree with it or like it, but I sure do. So do lots of other Texans apparently.

    Besides, SHE makes the call -- not you or I -- because SHE was there, not you or I. So let the people who were THERE make the call...if they want to scare the POS criminal(s)off, hold them for police, or shoot them, that's THEIR call. Not ours.

    If more people would kill damn criminals when they encounter them, then EVERYONE would be a whole lot better off. And if we had more Joe Horns looking out for their neighbors, that'd be even better.

    As I have said, the only real "justice" any criminal sees is at the hand of an armed citizen. The more dead criminals, the better.

    Good riddance.

    -- John D.


    I knew texas had that law for property though I was not aware it is for only at night? Able to cite any pc or where you heard that? Thanks

    Edit: Don't you hate it when you don't read far enough into the post when your answer is justa fewposts down. . I guess I'll try and contribute - As for SteveinAshand, my friend used to steal when he was like 16/17 and I would never want to see him killed for that back then. Though here in California the law protects him, in Texas it doesn't. If I was a theif in Texas and I knew about that law, I most likely would not want to rob, I am not saying that shooting someone walking out with your T.V. is right. What the law says is right is not always what the Christian belief may say is right.. we can see that with gay marriage in some states. Though I do highlyrecommend all Texas thiefs come here to my state to rob instead, specifically S.F.The liberals here love criminals so much that... well.. the law here speaks for itself.

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    Regular Member MetalChris's Avatar
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    TehGruu wrote:
    Well, crime does carry a certain risk. Please reference "GPFHNTGS."

    Gruu's Postulate For How Not To Get Shot - It is always bad strategy to steal people's sh**. Especially in Texas.

    Please note the powerful knowledge that is being bestowed on all with half a brain.

    -Gruu
    I prefer that to Hank's POSD :celebrate

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    MetalChris wrote:
    TehGruu wrote:
    Well, crime does carry a certain risk. Please reference "GPFHNTGS."

    Gruu's Postulate For How Not To Get Shot - It is always bad strategy to steal people's sh**. Especially in Texas.

    Please note the powerful knowledge that is being bestowed on all with half a brain.

    -Gruu
    I prefer that to Hank's POSD :celebrate
    I think Hank is just pointing out that the majority of gun laws make it impossible to protect yourself against any threat nowadays. Both 'slogans' are true. Does POSD stand for what I think it stands for?

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    Regular Member MetalChris's Avatar
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    POSD = postulate of self defense

    I screwed it up a little

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    hanky has been deemed "irrelevant" on OCDO.

    In Texas, he's just plain WRONG.


    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  24. #24
    Regular Member Hendu024's Avatar
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    TehGruu wrote:
    Well, crime does carry a certain risk. Please reference "GPFHNTGS."

    Gruu's Postulate For How Not To Get Shot - It is always bad strategy to steal people's sh**. Especially in Texas.

    Please note the powerful knowledge that is being bestowed on all with half a brain.



    -Gruu
    LOL

    Finally, a postulate that makes sense!

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    Decoligny wrote:
    Yes you can use deadly force in Texas for the Protection of Property.

    TEXAS PENAL CODE

    Title 2

    Chapter 9

    Sec.9.41.PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a)A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property.

    (b)A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible, movable property by another is justified in using force against the other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossession and:

    (1)the actor reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or

    (2)the other accomplished the dispossession by using force, threat, or fraud against the actor.

    Sec.9.42.DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY.A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:

    (1)if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and

    (2)when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

    (A)to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or

    (B)to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and

    (3)he reasonably believes that:

    (A)the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or

    (B)the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

    Holy shishkebab! You can defend property with force AND go get it back with force!

    Hate to be in the repo business in TX!

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