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Thread: Fairlane Mall -- CC only?

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    Regular Member TheSzerdi's Avatar
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    Just got off the phone with Fairlane Mall of Dearborn security officer and was informed that they have a CC only policy. The website doesn't list any policy regarding firearms and if I recall correctly, neither does the Rules of Conduct posted at the mall itself. So after being thwarted in my attempt to buy socks at Target tonight I've decided I'll see if my bad luck holds true at the mall tomorrow morning when I OC there for "The Search for Socks II: Fairlane Mall." (Decided now that I'm home I'm too lazy to go back out tonight for socks. Plus I might as well test another place while I'm out, eh?)

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    bring a damn recorder please :-)
    Freedom isn't free, but this is America! We will find a way to outsource it and save some money - Jeremy

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    Regular Member TheSzerdi's Avatar
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    Always. Just wish I had a video camera or better yet a news crew to follow me around. haha

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Thread tagged for updates on the epic saga of TheSzerdi's quest for socks.............
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Regular Member TheSzerdi's Avatar
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    Just spent 45 minutes cuffed in the back of a Dearborn Police squad car. Guess that answers Fairlane's OC policy, even though I never spoke to Fairlane Security while I walked around the mall for an hour... and then the police pulled us over as we were pulling out of the parking space. Held me at gunpoint until they cuffed me and stuffed me into the back of the squad car. I really do have the worst luck. Will update further later tonight, have to deal with friend being taken to jail for an old warrant.

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    TheSzerdi wrote:
    Just spent 45 minutes cuffed in the back of a Dearborn Police squad car. Guess that answers Fairlane's OC policy, even though I never spoke to Fairlane Security while I walked around the mall for an hour... and then the police pulled us over as we were pulling out of the parking space. Held me at gunpoint until they cuffed me and stuffed me into the back of the squad car. I really do have the worst luck. Will update further later tonight, have to deal with friend being taken to jail for an old warrant.
    lol sounds like a fun time. I know quite a few dearborn officers. What were the names? We gota do some OC together sometime, seems like you know the places to go.:celebrate
    Freedom isn't free, but this is America! We will find a way to outsource it and save some money - Jeremy

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    :shock:



    I know we probably can't afford to sue them, but it sounds like it's time for a protest in front of the Dearborn PD, and a color of law complaint to the FBI.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

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    Regular Member ISMOID's Avatar
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    I have carried in front of DPD without incident, stopped at a 7-11. The officer even held the door for me. Maybe it's the mustache?

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    ISMOID wrote:
    I have carried in front of DPD without incident, stopped at a 7-11. The officer even held the door for me. Maybe it's the mustache?
    lol probably
    Freedom isn't free, but this is America! We will find a way to outsource it and save some money - Jeremy

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    TheSzerdi wrote:
    Just spent 45 minutes cuffed in the back of a Dearborn Police squad car. Guess that answers Fairlane's OC policy, even though I never spoke to Fairlane Security while I walked around the mall for an hour... and then the police pulled us over as we were pulling out of the parking space. Held me at gunpoint until they cuffed me and stuffed me into the back of the squad car. I really do have the worst luck. Will update further later tonight, have to deal with friend being taken to jail for an old warrant.
    Yes, please let us know what was the "crime" they detained you for. I think I will go see if Dearborn has any stupid firearms ordinances that are unenforceable.

    Update: The only item of interest *might* be the following:

    Sec. 14-264. Reckless, wanton use or negligent discharge of firearm. It shall be unlawful for any person in the city to recklessly, heedlessly, wilfully or wantonly use, carry, handle or discharge any firearm without due caution and circumspection for the rights, safety or property of others. (Ord. No. 81-29, ยง 602, 7-21-81)

    http://library1.municode.com/default...ction=whatsnew

    It appears that if you carry willfully without due caution, then you could be found in violation of this ordinance. It sounds like a stretch to me, but then again LEO's can stop you if they so choose (illegally or otherwise). I did find it interesting that the City of Dearborn Website has a FOIA Form Link right on the City Clerk Department Pages.

    Definitions:

    willfully = done deliberately
    due = satisfying or capable of satisfying a need, obligation, or duty
    caution = prudent forethought to minimize risk
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

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    Firearms carry is preempted under state law. Dearborn cannot enforce regulations on carry.


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    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
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    TheSzerdi wrote:
    Just spent 45 minutes cuffed in the back of a Dearborn Police squad car. Guess that answers Fairlane's OC policy, even though I never spoke to Fairlane Security while I walked around the mall for an hour... and then the police pulled us over as we were pulling out of the parking space. Held me at gunpoint until they cuffed me and stuffed me into the back of the squad car. I really do have the worst luck. Will update further later tonight, have to deal with friend being taken to jail for an old warrant.
    You've got to be kidding me, yeesh.

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    We need to OC in groups more.. I'm willing to join up a group going shopping as long as I'm free and it's not a 100 mile drive. This is BS let them cuff 20-30 of us.

    PS: I know you have a new recording now. Let me have at it and it can hit Youtube .. Also this might be a good time to get some people setup to try and have some discussions with officials in Dearborn. Maybe now is a good time present in front of the Dearborn city council. Make them clean up their illegal ordinances.

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    Regular Member TheSzerdi's Avatar
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    Ok, here's some more detail. As posted earlier I went to the mall with the intention of buying socks. Once there I checked several stores and decided that saving $4 per pack of socks by going to (insert generic superstore) was a better idea since that's a pack of cigs per pack of socks. My two friends and I wandered the mall for about 30 min, ate at the food court for about 15 min, and finally left for a total time in mall of approx 1 hour. On our way out of the food court a security guard moved to intercept me, but only glared as I passed by. Then the guard and another guard followed us out. Outside there was a mall security SUV waiting and watching as we got into our vehicle. We pulled out of the parking space and started down the lane between cars when a Dearborn Squad Car pulled up behind us and turned on it's lights. My friend (who was driving) pulled back into a parking space that was about 6 spaces from any other car. Once we stopped the officer announced over the PA to keep our hands over our heads. I had just grabbed my recorder and turned it on so it stayed in my hand. The officer got out of his car and while gun drawn and aimed at me yelled at the passenger (me) to open the door, remove seatbelt, step out of car, keep hands in view. Once out he told me to put the voice recorder down on the car seat. He then told me to walk backwards till even with the mirror of his car, had me get on my knees, place hands behind my back, and cuffed me. After cuffing me he removed my gun, searched all my pockets (and took an OC pamphlet from my inside jacket pocket) and put me in the squad car. By this time 3 more squad cars had arrived and were repeating the gun drawn and cuffing routine with my friends. For the next 40 minutes or so the officers alternated yelling at me and lecturing me while they ran the serial on my gun, my drivers license, and my CPL. I also saw them break out the little blue paper book of gun laws trying to find something to cite me with. They also stood around the trunk of the cruiser I was in all reading the pamphlet the initial officer had taken from me. They tried to foul me up with several points such as no carry in a theater or an alcohol serving establishment (which are in fact attached to the mall), but I pointed out this doesn't apply to CPL holders. Finally they put my gun and magazine separately into my friends trunk and let me go WITH NO CHARGES. My friend was cited with "failure to change address on his drivers license" even though he's a student and renting a room at my house for the school year. My other friend had a warrant that she didn't know about (She'd had a court date set 11 months ago for disorderly, but the notice didn't arrive till after the court date so she'd missed it and thought it all was dropped long ago.) so the police took her to the station and then she was transferred to Oakland and we had to go pay her bond, which was why I didn't post more earlier.

    I haven't checked what my recorder caught yet, just got home. Since it was sitting in our car, I doubt it got much.

    If anyone has questions or can think of something I forgot to address, feel free to ask and I will try to elaborate.

    Almost forgot, they gave me crap the whole time for wanting attention and causing a fuss on purpose, etc, etc...

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    This calls for an open carry event at Fairlane Mall .. I used to go to UM Dearborn so I'm quite familiar with the mall.From what I remember they have a police station in the mall? Maybe I'm getting it confused with that mall in Detroit. You probably should have just turned on the recorder and put it in your pocket but at least your remembered to hit record It's always a bad idea to hold anything in your hands durring a felony type stop which is how they handled you. You dont want them mistaking something in your hands as a gun and some trigger happy cop firing on you.



    Mike

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    ATTORNEY ? Color of law? Am i being detained ? what charge ? if not am i free to go?

    Oh mister police officer sir! Why did you stop us ? Humm!

    Got to just loovve the police, just reading your posted info makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, knowing that they are protecting you from yourself

    (insert sarcasum):celebrate

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    mikestilly wrote:
    We need to OC in groups more.. I'm willing to join up a group going shopping as long as I'm free and it's not a 100 mile drive. This is BS let them cuff 20-30 of us.
    I enjoy shopping about as much as I enjoy watching the View.

    Instead, I suggest we send out press releases and protest outside of the PD during rush hour.

    By the way, that change of address charge, that will probably be thrown out if taken care of properly. It's clearly fruit of the poisonous tree since they had no good reason to pull you over.

    Edit to add: We also should challenge the PD to help us with the food drive.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    FOIA Request and call Dean to discuss options. You were illegally detained as MWG is not RAS for a Terry Stop. At minimum, this would appear to be a "Color Of Law" violation and quite possibly "Assault with a Deadly Weapon".

    LEO's are not exempt from the LAW.
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    I don't feel like looking it up, but if the officer who drew his gun knew better, he is guilty of a federal felony. I believe punishable by 10 years in prison.

    It would be nice, however unlikely, if he actually had to face a court for his actions. Pointing a gun at someone for no good reason is beyond unacceptable. As I always say, just imagine what would have happened if the role was reversed and one of us drew on a cop. It is simply not something we can tolerate at all.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Regular Member TheSzerdi's Avatar
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    Stopping the car for no reason = unlawful. (Fairly sure no officer actually saw me enter the vehicle with the gun, therefore any knowledge of it is hearsay.)

    Holding everyone at gunpoint = assault with a deadly weapon.

    Cuffing and placing everyone in squad cars = kidnapping.

    When asked in various ways why we were stopped and treated thus: "You have a gun." or "We got a call about a man with a gun." = unlawful.

    Edited to say: When questioned about excessive force holding us at gunpoint and immediately cuffing us the reply was "I want to get home safe to my wife and kids." Sure, great, what happens when the jumpy cop hears a car door slam and pulls the trigger? Then do I get home safe? Where are my rights here?



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    im no lawyer, but any information gained from a ILLEGAL stop cant be used in court. Your friends should have all charges against them dropped. Fruit of the poisones tree doctrine or something along those lines.
    Freedom isn't free, but this is America! We will find a way to outsource it and save some money - Jeremy

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    Regular Member Jblack44's Avatar
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    When you were approached , did you do the first thing your supposed to, and say hello???? :P Sorry that really made me laugh when I heard your recording from the Detroit police stop.

    Damn son, you do have some bad luck don't you??
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If you have a gun, what in the hell do you have to be paranoid for." Clint Smith, Director of Thunder Ranch

  23. #23
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    TheSzerdi wrote:
    Edited to say: When questioned about excessive force holding us at gunpoint and immediately cuffing us the reply was "I want to get home safe to my wife and kids."
    An interesting statement, but considering that resisting unlawful arrest has been upheld as legal, you could have used his very actions to legally kill him. (Not that I suggest resisting OC related arrests)

    What a moron. I sincerely hope he loses his job. Felons shouldn't be allowed to patrol.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  24. #24
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    TheSzerdi wrote:
    Stopping the car for no reason = unlawful. (Fairly sure no officer actually saw me enter the vehicle with the gun, therefore any knowledge of it is hearsay.)

    Holding everyone at gunpoint = assault with a deadly weapon.

    Cuffing and placing everyone in squad cars = kidnapping.

    When asked in various ways why we were stopped and treated thus: "You have a gun." or "We got a call about a man with a gun." = unlawful.

    Edited to say: When questioned about excessive force holding us at gunpoint and immediately cuffing us the reply was "I want to get home safe to my wife and kids." Sure, great, what happens when the jumpy cop hears a car door slam and pulls the trigger? Then do I get home safe? Where are my rights here?

    The whole stop was unlawful and I believe you have a valid complaint. You friends arrest should be thrown out as the stop was unlawful, no RAS or PC. The very least is a complaint filed and information sent to the Dearborn Chief.

    This crap has to stop. I can't think of any metro Police departments that are not aware of OC being legal and what they can and can not do.

    Get me some e-mails for Dearborn and I can send some letters out to the chief the attorney and the mayor.

    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    I sure hope you are able to sue them. This is ridiculous.

    As the recent case against the Alamogordo police proved, these officers can be held personally liable as well as the city and department for violation of your 4th amendment rights.

    That was a federal case, but not in our District. It would be nice to see one that was.

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