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Thread: "The Sheepdog Concept"

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    Nutnfancy discusses his view on "The Sheepdog Concept" that was introduced by Ret. U.S Army Lt Col Dave Grossman.

    Video is a little long at like 37 minutes but i thought it was worth watching if you have the time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW8BZ...mp;feature=sub

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    I am not a sheepdog and have no intention of being a sheepdog. I have no obligation or responsibilityto you, to your family, or to any strangers that happen to be in vicinity of me. I a responsible to and for myself, and I have made a conscious decision regarding any obligation I may wish to assume regarding friends. Having no living family that I care about, I leave them out of the discussion.

    If you want to hire me to protect you and/or your family and/or friends, and/or perfect strangers, let's talk. I have a set dollar per hour amount in mind, as well as costs of outfitting myself for the job, and a sum of money to be escrowed in the event I become wounded, disabled, or dead because of my employment by you.

    If it happens that my actions to protect myself also provide some measure of protection to you or those you care about, I will not be sending you a bill for services rendered. I expect the same from you.

    As far as I'm concerned, those that go around calling themselves "sheepdogs" are probably more dangerous than mall ninjas or other wannabees who at least know they are playing a game. Rushing around wanting and waiting to "intervene" in every and any possible opportunity just means that you are going to escalate the situation into one where there is no option but to use your firearm. A sheepdog challenges everything that comes near the flock, and is ready to battle anything that does not retreat when challenged. That's what the shepard wants - an automatic and unreasoned response, so the shepard does not have to get up and check out every little thing. The shepard only needs to rouse him/herself if the sheepdog is defeated.

    So if you want to be the throw-away early warning system, go ahead. Just don't blame me when you discover that the herd hates and fears you as much as it hates and fears the wolves. In the mean time, do not try to control me like you try to control the herd, with your display of fangs and attempts to bite me when I do not do as you want or go where you want me to go. I have my own teeth and a willingness to use them.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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    I've never liked the "sheepdog" concept. I'm neither sheep or sheepdog.I carry for self defense and mycare for others comes from my moral values and not a vigilante sense of responsibility for taking care of society. The sheepdog concept is a bit over the top for me since it implies not only a sense of responsibility for othersbut also a sense of authority over them.

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    skidmark wrote:
    I am not a sheepdog and have no intention of being a sheepdog...(Snip)
    Good one, Skidmark. I've always been uneasy when hearing the sheepdog analogy. Thank you for filling that out for me. I also arm myself for MY protection and to protect my loved ones ONLY. I am neither a sheepdog nor a vigilante.

    If someday I'm forced to use my gun and training in defense of myself or my family and it HAPPENS to benefit others too then so be it, butthey arenot my main concern.

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    skidmark wrote:
    I am not a sheepdog and have no intention of being a sheepdog. I have no obligation or responsibilityto you, to your family, or to any strangers that happen to be in vicinity of me. I a responsible to and for myself, and I have made a conscious decision regarding any obligation I may wish to assume regarding friends.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    I am not a wolf. I am not a sheepdog who's duty is to protect the sheep. I am definitely NOT a sheep. I consider myself to be a ... stray dog..

    I am friendly yet wary. I will not jump into any fight between other dogs unless that fight comes to me too. Predatory wolves are avoided... unless they come to me. But when the fight comes to me I will fight with the same viciousness of a wolf.

    And the sheep can look out for themselves.

    I am accountable to no one but myself for my safety but I will fiercely protect my pups. I might perhaps maybe, depending on circumstances, come to the aid of another dog, or a sheepdog, or even a sheep but it would take extreme circumstances where I knew all the factors before I would endanger my own self by intervening.

    The concept of a sheepdog is filled by the police. Like the police the sheepdog confronts one wolf while the wolf pack eats a sheep on the other side of the flock. And the sheep fill a useful purpose.. that of keeping the wolves occupied so the "stray dog" can go about his life in peace.

    And open carry by a stray dog is the same as the stray dog baring his teeth when confronted by a wolf. It is a message to the wolf to go find a sheep.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    skidmark wrote:
    I am not a sheepdog and have no intention of being a sheepdog. I have no obligation or responsibilityto you, to your family, or to any strangers that happen to be in vicinity of me. I a responsible to and for myself, and I have made a conscious decision regarding any obligation I may wish to assume regarding friends. Having no living family that I care about, I leave them out of the discussion.

    If you want to hire me to protect you and/or your family and/or friends, and/or perfect strangers, let's talk. I have a set dollar per hour amount in mind, as well as costs of outfitting myself for the job, and a sum of money to be escrowed in the event I become wounded, disabled, or dead because of my employment by you.

    If it happens that my actions to protect myself also provide some measure of protection to you or those you care about, I will not be sending you a bill for services rendered. I expect the same from you.

    As far as I'm concerned, those that go around calling themselves "sheepdogs" are probably more dangerous than mall ninjas or other wannabees who at least know they are playing a game. Rushing around wanting and waiting to "intervene" in every and any possible opportunity just means that you are going to escalate the situation into one where there is no option but to use your firearm. A sheepdog challenges everything that comes near the flock, and is ready to battle anything that does not retreat when challenged. That's what the shepard wants - an automatic and unreasoned response, so the shepard does not have to get up and check out every little thing. The shepard only needs to rouse him/herself if the sheepdog is defeated.

    So if you want to be the throw-away early warning system, go ahead. Just don't blame me when you discover that the herd hates and fears you as much as it hates and fears the wolves. In the mean time, do not try to control me like you try to control the herd, with your display of fangs and attempts to bite me when I do not do as you want or go where you want me to go. I have my own teeth and a willingness to use them.

    stay safe.

    skidmark


    Very well put.

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    I only made it to the third use of "dude" before I had to stop it.

    I agree with Skidmark.

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    Not so long ago and in a pasture too uncomfortably close to here, a flock of sheep lived and grazed. They were protected by a dog, who answered to the master, but despite his best efforts from time to time a nearby pack of wolves would prey upon the flock.

    One day a group of sheep, more bold than the rest, met to discuss their dilemma. "Our dog is good, and vigilant, but he is one dog and the wolves are many. The wolves he catches are not always killed, and the master judges and releases many to prey again upon us, for no reason we can understand. What can we do? We are sheep, but we do not wish to be food, too!"

    One sheep spoke up, saying "It is his teeth and claws that make the wolf so terrible to us. It is his nature to prey, and he would find any way to do it, but it is the tools he wields that make it possible. If we had such teeth, we could fight back, and stop this savagery." The other sheep clamored in agreement, and they went together to the old bones of the dead wolves heaped in the corner of the pasture, and gathered fang and claw and made them into weapons.

    That night, when the wolves came, the newly armed sheep sprang up with their weapons and struck at them and cried "Begone! We are not food!" and drove off the wolves, who were astonished. When did sheep become so bold and so dangerous to wolves? When did sheep grow teeth? It was unthinkable!

    The next day, flush with victory and waving their weapons, they approached the flock to pronounce their discovery. But as they drew nigh, the flock huddled together and cried out "Baaaaaaaadddd! Baaaaaddd things! You have bad things! We are afraid! You are not sheep!"

    The brave sheep stopped, amazed. "But we are your brethren!" they cried, "We are still sheep, but we do not wish to be food. See, our new teeth and claws protect us and have saved us from slaughter. They do not make us into wolves, they make us equal to the wolves, and safe from their viciousness!"

    "Baaaaaaaddd!", cried the flock,"the things are bad and will pervert you, and we fear them. You cannot bring them into the flock. They scare us!". So the armed sheep resolved to conceal their weapons, for although they had no desire to panic the flock, they wished to remain in the fold. But they would not return to those nights of terror, waiting for the wolves to come.

    In time, the wolves attacked less often and sought easier prey, for they had no stomach for fighting sheep who possessed tooth and claw even as they did. Not knowing which sheep had fangs and which did not, they came to leave sheep out of their diet almost completely except for the occasional raid, from which more than one wolf did not return. Then came the day when, as the flock grazed beside the stream, one sheep's weapon slipped from the folds of her fleece, and the flock cried out in terror again, "Baaaaaaddddd! You still possess these evil things! We must ban you from our presence!".

    And so they did. The great chief sheep and his court and council, encouraged by the words of their moneylenders and advisors, placed signs and totems at the edges of the pasture forbidding the presence of hidden weapons there. The armed sheep protested before the council, saying "It is our pasture, too, and we have never harmed you! When can you say we have caused you hurt? It is the wolves, not we, who prey upon you. We are still sheep, but we are not food!". But the flock would not hear, and drowned them out with cries of "Baaaaaaddd! We will not hear your clever words! You and your things are evil and will harm us!".

    Saddened by this rejection, the armed sheep moved off and spent their days on the edges of the flock, trying from time to time to speak with their brethren to convince them of the wisdom of having such teeth, but meeting with little success. They found it hard to talk to those who, upon hearing their words, would roll back their eyes and flee, crying "Baaaaddd! Bad things!".

    That night, the wolves happened upon the sheep's totems and signs, and said, "Truly, these sheep are fools! They have told us they have no teeth! Brothers, let us feed!". And they set upon the flock, and horrible was the carnage in the midst of the fold. The dog fought like a demon, and often seemed to be in two places at once, but even he could not halt the slaughter. It was only when the other sheep arrived with their weapons that the wolves fled, vowing to each other to remain on the edge of the pasture and wait for the next time they could prey, for if the sheep were so foolish once, they would be so again. This they did, and do still.

    In the morning, the armed sheep spoke to the flock, and said, "See? If the wolves know you have no teeth, they will fall upon you. Why be prey? To be a sheep does not mean to be food for wolves!". But the flock cried out, more feebly for their voices were fewer, though with no less terror, "Baaaaaaaadddd! These things are bad! If they were banished, the wolves would not harm us! Baaaaaaaddd!". The other sheep could only hang their heads and sigh. The flock had forgotten that even they possessed teeth; how else could they graze the grasses of the pasture? It was only those who preyed, like the wolves and jackals, who turned their teeth to evil ends. If you pulled their own fangs those beasts would take another's teeth and claws, perhaps even the broad flat teeth of sheep, and turn them to evil purposes.

    The bold sheep knew that the fangs and claws they possessed had not changed them. They still grazed like other sheep, and raised their lambs in the spring, and greeted their friend the dog as he walked among them. But they could not quell the terror of the flock, which rose in them like some ancient dark smoky spirit and could not be damped by reason, nor dispelled by the light of day.

    So they resolved to retain their weapons, but to conceal them from the flock; to endure their fear and loathing, and even to protect their brethren if the need arose, until the day the flock learned to understand that as long as there were wolves in the night, sheep would need teeth to repel them.

    They would still be sheep, but they would not be food!

    [line]
    By Charles Riggs, (C) 1997

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    In the video his view is more of a sheepdog as a person whoin the notes for the video, "Cannot abide watching their fellow humans beings suffer and die while they do nothing. They are compelled into action even when those actions could lead to their own deaths or injury." "Few have what I feel possess the other key qualities of the Sheepdog (discussed in the video): a strong value system, unassuming manner, bravery, judgment and maturity, preparation, practiced skill sets, and a strong sense of duty in the face of often scary circumstances."

    "Good Sheepdogs span the ranks and include responsible and caring civilians, law enforcement officials, firefighters, paramedics, PJs, EMTs, pilots, and soldiers."

    He gives a couple of examples likethe Air Florida crash in 1982. Lenny Skutnik who jumpedinto a freezing river after an airplane crash to save Priscilla Tirado who was to weak to hang onto the rope from the helicopter.

    He refers to the two snipers who stayed behind to try and help the crew of the downed helicopter in Somalia.

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    OC-Glock19 wrote:
    skidmark wrote:
    I am not a sheepdog and have no intention of being a sheepdog...(Snip)
    Good one, Skidmark. I've always been uneasy when hearing the sheepdog analogy. Thank you for filling that out for me. I also arm myself for MY protection and to protect my loved ones ONLY. I am neither a sheepdog nor a vigilante.

    If someday I'm forced to use my gun and training in defense of myself or my family and it HAPPENS to benefit others too then so be it, butthey arenot my main concern.
    My sentiments exactly! I aint carrying to protect others, I carry to protect me, my family, and friends. I'm not going to risk my life or health protecting someone who dos'nt care enough about their own protection to arm themselves. If they dont care about their lives and safety, why should I?
    "You can teach 'em, but you cant learn 'em."

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    Huck wrote:
    OC-Glock19 wrote:
    skidmark wrote:
    I am not a sheepdog and have no intention of being a sheepdog...(Snip)
    Good one, Skidmark. I've always been uneasy when hearing the sheepdog analogy. Thank you for filling that out for me. I also arm myself for MY protection and to protect my loved ones ONLY. I am neither a sheepdog nor a vigilante.

    If someday I'm forced to use my gun and training in defense of myself or my family and it HAPPENS to benefit others too then so be it, butthey arenot my main concern.
    My sentiments exactly! I aint carrying to protect others, I carry to protect me, my family, and friends. I'm not going to risk my life or health protecting someone who dos'nt care enough about their own protection to arm themselves. If they dont care about their lives and safety, why should I?
    I mostly agree with you guys about only carrying a firearm to protect yourselves and your family but in the video he uses the term also in reference to people who help others when it has nothing to do with a firearm.

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    skidmark wrote:
    I am not a sheepdog and have no intention of being a sheepdog.¬* I have no obligation or responsibility¬*to you, to your family, or to any strangers that happen to be in vicinity of me.¬* I a responsible to and for myself, and I have made a conscious decision regarding any obligation I may wish to assume regarding friends.¬* Having no living family that I care about, I leave them out of the discussion.

    If you want to hire me to protect you and/or your family and/or friends, and/or perfect strangers, let's talk.¬* I have a set dollar per hour amount in mind, as well as costs of outfitting myself for the job, and a sum of money to be escrowed in the event I become wounded, disabled, or dead because of my employment by you.

    If it happens that my actions to protect myself also provide some measure of protection to you or those you care about, I will not be sending you a bill for services rendered.¬* I expect the same from you.

    As far as I'm concerned, those that go around calling themselves "sheepdogs" are probably more dangerous than mall ninjas or other wannabees who at least know they are playing a game.¬* Rushing around wanting and waiting to "intervene" in every and any possible opportunity just means that you are going to escalate the situation into one where there is no option but to use your firearm.¬* A sheepdog challenges everything that comes near the flock, and is ready to battle anything that does not retreat when challenged.¬* That's what the shepard wants - an automatic and unreasoned response, so the shepard does not have to get up and check out every little thing.¬* The shepard only needs to rouse him/herself if the sheepdog is defeated.

    So if you want to be the throw-away early warning system, go ahead.¬* Just don't blame me when you discover that the herd hates and fears you as much as it hates and fears the wolves.¬* In the mean time, do not try to control me like you try to control the herd, with your display of fangs and attempts to bite me when I do not do as you want or go where you want me to go.¬* I have my own teeth and a willingness to use them.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    I agree, skid.

    +1000

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    In the video his view is more of a sheepdog as a person whoin the notes for the video, "Cannot abide watching their fellow humans beings suffer and die while they do nothing. They are compelled into action even when those actions could lead to their own deaths or injury." "Few have what I feel possess the other key qualities of the Sheepdog (discussed in the video): a strong value system, unassuming manner, bravery, judgment and maturity, preparation, practiced skill sets, and a strong sense of duty in the face of often scary circumstances."
    Here's ^^where I parted ways with the esteemed Lt. Col. and his sheepdog paradigm.

    I can, and have, abided with no remorse the sight of my fellow human beings suffering and dying while doing nothing. There was nothing I could do to prevent their deaths except possibly add mine to theirs. I felt no compulsion to waste my life.

    I have an extremely strong value system - one that informs me that wasting my life for no gain is not a positive value.

    I may look unassuming, but that is only when my life or my values are not on the line. At that point you may be assured I am opinionated and have no reservation about expressing my opinions.

    I have no idea if I am brave or not. That is an attribute that is hung on a person by others based on the others' value judgements. Anyone who describes themself as brave is a fool at best, and dangerous to self and others for sure. The medals I have been awarded are of no value in judging whether or not I am brave.

    My "judgment and maturity, preparation, practiced skill sets, and a strong sense of duty in the face of often scary circumstances" have been discussed, praised and questioned by others to a degree that I could never acheive in rigorous self-examination. I will defer to the conclusions of others - that nobody is really sure but at times I have demonstrated either a great deal of or great lack of each quality by itself and/or in combination with some or all of the other qualities.

    I do not count cops, firemen, and the like as sheepdogs, as they do not actively seek out the wolf like a good sheepdog will. They merely respond to the confirmed presence of the wolf - usually by rushing to the spot where the wolf has already struck.

    And there is the crux of the discussion - that our society will not tolerate a real sheepdog who hunts down the wolf before the wolf has an opportunity to strike the flock.

    I am neither sheep, sheepdog, wolf, nor "stray". I am what I am, and so far the shepard has seen fit to allow me to wander through and around the flock, as I present no immediate threat to it. What I may one day do to the sheep, the sheepdog, the wolf or the shepard is not yet decided.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Specter wrote:
    Huck wrote:
    OC-Glock19 wrote:
    skidmark wrote:
    I am not a sheepdog and have no intention of being a sheepdog...(Snip)
    Good one, Skidmark. I've always been uneasy when hearing the sheepdog analogy. Thank you for filling that out for me. I also arm myself for MY protection and to protect my loved ones ONLY. I am neither a sheepdog nor a vigilante.

    If someday I'm forced to use my gun and training in defense of myself or my family and it HAPPENS to benefit others too then so be it, butthey arenot my main concern.
    My sentiments exactly! I aint carrying to protect others, I carry to protect me, my family, and friends. I'm not going to risk my life or health protecting someone who dos'nt care enough about their own protection to arm themselves. If they dont care about their lives and safety, why should I?
    I mostly agree with you guys about only carrying a firearm to protect yourselves and your family but in the video he uses the term also in reference to people who help others when it has nothing to do with a firearm.
    I didn't watch the video and hence did not know that.

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    Bikenut wrote
    I am not a wolf. I am not a sheepdog who's duty is to protect the sheep. I am definitely NOT a sheep. I consider myself to be a ... stray dog..

    I am friendly yet wary. I will not jump into any fight between other dogs unless that fight comes to me too. Predatory wolves are avoided... unless they come to me. But when the fight comes to me I will fight with the same viciousness of a wolf.

    And the sheep can look out for themselves.

    I am accountable to no one but myself for my safety but I will fiercely protect my pups. I might perhaps maybe, depending on circumstances, come to the aid of another dog, or a sheepdog, or even a sheep but it would take extreme circumstances where I knew all the factors before I would endanger my own self by intervening.

    The concept of a sheepdog is filled by the police. Like the police the sheepdog confronts one wolf while the wolf pack eats a sheep on the other side of the flock. And the sheep fill a useful purpose.. that of keeping the wolves occupied so the "stray dog" can go about his life in peace.

    And open carry by a stray dog is the same as the stray dog baring his teeth when confronted by a wolf. It is a message to the wolf to go find a sheep.
    Plus about a million!!!!

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    http://www.zombiesurvivalwiki.com/pa...ves,+and+sheep



    If you carry a weapon and are prepared both physically and mentally to use it, you are a sheepdog. To be a sheepdog does not mean that you are foolish enough to stop a crime in progress, when your life in not in danger but it does mean that if someone is being brutalized that you will step in to stop it if the chance of saving their life is greater than the chance of loosing yours..

    If you choose not to do so, I believe that God will hold you accountable.

    The ultimate measure of a man is the decisions he makes in moments of challenge, risk and danger.








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    Interceptor_Knight wrote:
    if the chance of saving their life is greater than the chance of loosing yours..
    This might be thecrux of the problem for some. This is adifficult question to answer in a short span of time.

    Two different scenarios come to mind.

    1.In an active shooter situation in a store or restaurant, I couldponder the potential ways tostop the shooter, orfind the fastest way to the back door and make it home safely. The gun on my hip is to help me get to the back door. If the shooter is between me and the door, I will need to find a way to go around, under, over or through him. If that helps the rest of the patrons to get home safely, good.

    2. I see a child drowning in a pool. Being a good swimmer, I am equipped to save the child and I jump in to help.

    Somewhere between these two, a line exists that prevents me from being more interested in others safetythan I am in my own. As always, everyone needs to determine for themselves where that line is. Either way, I am not a sheep, or a sheep dog.

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    Interceptor_Knight wrote:
    If you carry a weapon and are prepared both physically and mentally to use it, you are a sheepdog.
    Sorry but I disagree with the analogy and what it implies. The people in this society aren't called sheep because they are defensless. They are called sheep because of a willful ignorance and reliance on government for their security (among other things). They see the role of government as a provider (i.e., shepherd)rather than a guarantor of their rights to provide these things for themselves. "Sheepdog" implies responsibility for them and authority over them. "Sheepdogs" answer to the shepherd just as the sheep doand they see the shepherd as the government. The analogy doesn't fit the freeman whoexcercises his rights and assumes the responsibilities inherent in those rights.

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    I guess i prefer to think of myself a sheeple with teeth.

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    Specter wrote:
    Nutnfancy discusses his view on "The Sheepdog Concept" that was introduced by Ret. U.S Army Lt Col Dave Grossman.

    Video is a little long at like 37 minutes but i thought it was worth watching if you have the time.¬* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW8BZ7pRt28&feature=sub
    Sounds like this soldier is going after the Sheep/Wolfe concept. Good luck, general. First, you have to get out of Afghanistan, than Iraq, then Japan, then Saudi Arabia, then .... all US troops from all over the globe - that's a tough one!

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    I think he just has a passion for his oath he took to protect American Civilians. I carry my firearm to protect my wife and myself, BUT that does not mean if I see someone in life threatening danger that I will sit by and not help. I personally can not say I would just let someone die. I also think when it comes to helping other people you need lots of good judgment on whether to act or not. I have had friends and family attacked in the past, but have never been able to help them. If I were to stumble upon a woman being raped, beat, etc and was calling out for her life, I personally could not just walk on by.

    BUT that being said, I do not subscribe to vigilantism. I do not go looking for bad situations. I do not think that is what he is trying to get people to do. He talked about being prepared for situations and life emergencies in general.

    Overall I believe that it is personally important that I make any effort to help an innocent victim if I stumbled upon them, WHERE it is RESPONSIBLE, an LEO could not possibly help, or it is my/their only option.

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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    JT wrote:
    . "Sheepdog" implies responsibility for them and authority over them. "Sheepdogs" answer to the shepherd just as the sheep doand they see the shepherd as the government. The analogy doesn't fit the freeman whoexcercises his rights and assumes the responsibilities inherent in those rights.
    That is merely your personal twist which is different than that layed out.

    In the aforementioned analogy, there is no shepherd which the sheepdog must answer to and the sheepdog has no authority over the sheep.....

  23. #23
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    Interceptor_Knight wrote:
    That is merely your personal twist which is different than that layed out.

    In the aforementioned analogy, there is no shepherd which the sheepdog must answer to and the sheepdog has no authority over the sheep.....
    I think the analogy breaks down either way you intend it since in real lifea sheepdog with no shepherd is likely to be a danger to the sheep. I know, I know, I'm taking it too literal.

  24. #24
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    Jero1987 wrote:
    I think he just has a passion for his oath he took to protect American Civilians. I carry my firearm to protect my wife and myself, BUT that does not mean if I see someone in life threatening danger that I will sit by and not help. I personally can not say I would just let someone die. I also think when it comes to helping other people you need lots of good judgment on whether to act or not. I have had friends and family attacked in the past, but have never been able to help them. If I were to stumble upon a woman being raped, beat, etc and was calling out for her life, I personally could not just walk on by.

    BUT that being said, I do not subscribe to vigilantism. I do not go looking for bad situations. I do not think that is what he is trying to get people to do. He talked about being prepared for situations and life emergencies in general.

    Overall I believe that it is personally important that I make any effort to help an innocent victim if I stumbled upon them, WHERE it is RESPONSIBLE, an LEO could not possibly help, or it is my/their only option.
    Agreed. Also it sounds as if a few just seen the word sheepdog and for whatever reason already had their mind made up about it without watching the video and Nutnfancys take on it.

    Mainly linked the video as somethingI thought as an interesting take on the concept. Didn't mean to start an argument.

  25. #25
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    You can tell by my screen name what my take on the sheepdog analogy is. I joined and am still serving in the military because I feel this unexplainable need to protect my country and the people in it. And this need carries over into my off duty time as well and is one of main reasons I carry. I agree you can over analize this analogy and go in different direction. Good points and arguements have beenmade for both sides. I agree with the analogy for one main reason,the sheepdog doesn't know why he does what he does. No one told him it was his job to protect the flock, hesees the flock andjust does what he does. He will fight the wolf until the wolf leaves, is dead or he himself is dead. He just can't be any other way. Some might see this as a burden, I see it as a calling. I hold other peolpes lives above my own. I do what others are unwilling or unable to do.

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