"The Sheepdog Concept"

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I think he just has a passion for his oath he took to protect American Civilians. I carry my firearm to protect my wife and myself, BUT that does not mean if I see someone in life threatening danger that I will sit by and not help. I personally can not say I would just let someone die. I also think when it comes to helping other people you need lots of good judgment on whether to act or not. I have had friends and family attacked in the past, but have never been able to help them. If I were to stumble upon a woman being raped, beat, etc and was calling out for her life, I personally could not just walk on by.

BUT that being said, I do not subscribe to vigilantism. I do not go looking for bad situations. I do not think that is what he is trying to get people to do. He talked about being prepared for situations and life emergencies in general.

Overall I believe that it is personally important that I make any effort to help an innocent victim if I stumbled upon them, WHERE it is RESPONSIBLE, an LEO could not possibly help, or it is my/their only option.

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JT wrote:

. "Sheepdog" implies responsibility for them and authority over them. "Sheepdogs" answer to the shepherd just as the sheep doand they see the shepherd as the government. The analogy doesn't fit the freeman whoexcercises his rights and assumes the responsibilities inherent in those rights.

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That is merely your personal twist which is different than that layed out.

In the aforementioned analogy, there is no shepherd which the sheepdog must answer to and the sheepdog has no authority over the sheep.....

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Interceptor_Knight wrote:

That is merely your personal twist which is different than that layed out.

In the aforementioned analogy, there is no shepherd which the sheepdog must answer to and the sheepdog has no authority over the sheep.....

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I think the analogy breaks down either way you intend it since in real lifea sheepdog with no shepherd is likely to be a danger to the sheep. I know, I know, I'm taking it too literal.

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Jero1987 wrote:

I think he just has a passion for his oath he took to protect American Civilians. I carry my firearm to protect my wife and myself, BUT that does not mean if I see someone in life threatening danger that I will sit by and not help. I personally can not say I would just let someone die. I also think when it comes to helping other people you need lots of good judgment on whether to act or not. I have had friends and family attacked in the past, but have never been able to help them. If I were to stumble upon a woman being raped, beat, etc and was calling out for her life, I personally could not just walk on by.

BUT that being said, I do not subscribe to vigilantism. I do not go looking for bad situations. I do not think that is what he is trying to get people to do. He talked about being prepared for situations and life emergencies in general.

Overall I believe that it is personally important that I make any effort to help an innocent victim if I stumbled upon them, WHERE it is RESPONSIBLE, an LEO could not possibly help, or it is my/their only option.

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Agreed. Also it sounds as if a few just seen the word sheepdog and for whatever reason already had their mind made up about it without watching the video and Nutnfancys take on it.

Mainly linked the video as somethingI thought as an interesting take on the concept. Didn't mean to start an argument.

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You can tell by my screen name what my take on the sheepdog analogy is. I joined and am still serving in the military because I feel this unexplainable need to protect my country and the people in it. And this need carries over into my off duty time as well and is one of main reasons I carry. I agree you can over analize this analogy and go in different direction. Good points and arguements have beenmade for both sides. I agree with the analogy for one main reason,the sheepdog doesn't know why he does what he does. No one told him it was his job to protect the flock, hesees the flock andjust does what he does. He will fight the wolf until the wolf leaves, is dead or he himself is dead. He just can't be any other way. Some might see this as a burden, I see it as a calling. I hold other peolpes lives above my own. I do what others are unwilling or unable to do.

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JT wrote:

Interceptor_Knight wrote:

If you carry a weapon and are prepared both physically and mentally to use it, you are a sheepdog.

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Sorry but I disagree with the analogy and what it implies.  The people in this society aren't called sheep because they are defensless.  They are called sheep because of a willful ignorance and reliance on government for their security (among other things).  They see the role of government as a provider (i.e., shepherd) rather than a guarantor of their rights to provide these things for themselves.  "Sheepdog" implies responsibility for them and authority over them.  "Sheepdogs" answer to the shepherd just as the sheep do and they see the shepherd as the government.  The analogy doesn't fit the freeman who excercises his rights and assumes the responsibilities inherent in those rights.

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Exactly.

I tried to explain this to Nutnfancy (I told him to stay the **** out of my life), but the little statist ideologue declared me a troll and deleted my posts.

As you can see, it's not about "helping" people at all. It's about control.

No, you shouldn't defend yourself. You can't, you're not badass and tough enough. You're a sheeple. Get it?

What you need is ME, big serious soldiers and police to protect you!

You'll need our help when you're bleeding in the street! We're individuals who embody the mentality of the nanny state! Trust us!

Myself, if there's one person bleeding in the street I will go out of my way not to help, it's statist ideologues.

Honestly, they make me sick.

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marshaul wrote:

Exactly.

I tried to explain this to Nutnfancy (I told him to stay the @#$% out of my life), but the little statist ideologue declared me a troll and deleted my posts.

As you can see, it's not about "helping" people at all. It's about control.

No, you shouldn't defend yourself. You can't, you're not badass and tough enough. You're a sheeple. Get it?

What you need is ME, big serious soldiers and police to protect you!

You'll need our help when you're bleeding in the street! We're individuals who embody the mentality of the nanny state! Trust us!

Myself, if there's one person bleeding in the street I will go out of my way not to help, it's statist ideologues.

Honestly, they make me sick.

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Actually you appear totake my statements farther than I did. My sentiments are not anti-military, anti-LEO or anti-government. They have their place but they are to be the servants not the masters. The "sheeple" have been conditioned (or have conditioned themselves) to look at them as the masters. Consequently these entities come to consider themselves as the masters rather than the servants. My problem is not with people who are willing to risk their lives to help others in any capacity. Such people are a blessing to any society

My problem is simple. The term "sheepdog" has generic implications in and of itself. Sheepdogs are bred and trained to protect and control sheep. They don't just protect sheep by nature as has been implied by some in this thread or in the video. So the analogy fails for me right there. Sheepdogs are an extension of the control of the shepherd over the sheep.

I understand that most advocates of the "Sheepdog Concept"in this in this thread are thinking of a noble animal who sacrifices by nature to help "the sheep." It's not an accurate analogy of a sheepdog and even they must allow that it is easy for the concept to be misconstrued because that is exactly what those of us who dislike the term have been accused of.

Nutnfancy is passionate about his views, which is fine. I agree with much of what he says about preparedness but my preparedness doesn't make me anything but prepared. Others may benefit from my preparedness but I don't prepare to defend and protect them.

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Interceptor_Knight wrote:

http://www.zombiesurvivalwiki.com/page/Sheepdogs,+wolves,+and+sheep

 

If you carry a weapon and are prepared both physically and mentally to use it, you are a sheepdog.  To be a sheepdog does not mean that you are foolish enough to stop a crime in progress, when your life in not in danger but it does mean that if someone is being brutalized that you will step in to stop it if the chance of saving their life is greater than the chance of loosing yours.. 

If you choose not to do so, I believe that God will hold you accountable. 

The ultimate measure of a man is the decisions he makes in moments of challenge,  risk and danger.

 

 

 

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+100,000,000 couldn't have put it better myself

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I do not know how I could live with the aftermath of not intervening in a situation, the outcome I could have altered by becoming involved.

There are many types of people in this world, some would pass directly by a situation they could change, others would put their lives on the line to assist in any way possible.

Despite the fact that I have a wife and three children, I pray that I have the ability to be the latter of the two above when the time comes.

Some people are naturally attracted to chaos and the opportunity to step in to such chaos to impose order on behalf of the young and the weak.

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I concur completley with Skidmark. My weapon is for the protection of my family, friends and myself. Therein lies my responsibilities. I was a sheepdog once.... then I got to looking at the sheep. Especially the ones looking down their noses at me, that wouldn't use me for a door mat under most circumstances. That's when I decided that they could grow their own teeth or do without.



To jeapordize one's fortune, health and life for a strange sheep that is willfully stupid, and refuses to make the least effort to protect themselves and family is completely foolish. I will however, dial 911 for the dummies, and protecting an unknown child is the only exception I'm willing to make.

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For me it all depends on my mood as well as the various " what if" scenereos. Some daysI feel protective of anyone within sight, strangers or not, other days I am only for my "pack", which can include friends and aquaintances. If I were in a mall and heard gunfire coming from the other side of the mall, I would get the hell out of the mall. However if my mother was down where the shooting seems to be coming from, I would feel protective enough perhaps to actually go down there.

Look at Susan Hupp's telling of what happened in the Luby's. She was thinking " ohI got you, you SOB" only to realize she had had to leave her gun in her car since she was a good law abiding citizen. Had she had her gun and engaged Hennard, would it have been just for her and her parents sake, or would she be thinking of everyone else in the restaurant as well?

In most cases, when I am out in public, I could care less about the strangers around me, however if I were in a bank ( legal to CC/OC in banks in PA) and CCing, and some gun welding robbers came in and after getting a bunch of money, they start herding all of us into a back room instead of leaving, my alarm bells will be going off. I will then feel responsible for all innocents around me.

I have some "dog energy", and the totem isthe coyote, so I could be loyal for all or I could be more "natural" and only care for me and my "pack". The latin name for the coyote is canis latrans which means "barking dog". Coyotes and dogs can interbreed, and both species share the same habits such as scent marking. However, coyotes have a taste for sheep LOL. So things end there!

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For all you sheepdogs out there. Here's the word from one of the recognized "experts". http://www.stoppingpower.net/commentary/comm_dangers_in_intervention.asp

I'd like to hear your thoughts after reading Evan's comments.

stay safe.

skidmark

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Anytime we call the police when witnessing a crime - we are a sheepdog.

Anytime I witness a man physically abusing a woman and he stops because he knows I'm watching and will take SOME kind of action, be it call the police or personally intervene as a witness - I am a sheepdog.

Anytime we respond to the noises or gunshots in our neighborhoods - we are sheepdogs.

Anytime we stop to render assistance at an accident - we are sheepdogs.

The TX CHL covers you stopping a threat to the life of others be it from a felon or arabid dog- they are sheepdogs.

One does not even need to own, possess or use anyweapons to be a sheepdog.

When the bad guys shrink from you walking in the room and you are a threat to them by your mere presence - you are a sheepdog.

Being a sheepdog is not being a vigilante - you don't chase anyone down and mete out justice - ever. You don't look for an opportunity to take action. You just care about preventing/stopping the violence you are witnessing and can't live with the knowledge you could have saved a life if you weren't so self-centered and small minded. An unhelpful witness can be prosecuted for his complicity by non-action some places.

Are you really sure you are not a sheepdog? Really? If you do none of these things then I would not want to call you a friend. But it's good to know who you can't count on, too.

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Sheepdawg wrote:

You can tell by my screen name what my take on the sheepdog analogy is. I joined and am still serving in the military because I feel this unexplainable need to protect my country and the people in it. And this need carries over into my off duty time as well and is one of main reasons I carry. I agree you can over analize this analogy and go in different direction. Good points and arguements have beenmade for both sides. I agree with the analogy for one main reason,the sheepdog doesn't know why he does what he does. No one told him it was his job to protect the flock, hesees the flock andjust does what he does. He will fight the wolf until the wolf leaves, is dead or he himself is dead. He just can't be any other way. Some might see this as a burden, I see it as a calling. I hold other peolpes lives above my own. I do what others are unwilling or unable to do.

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You sir, I could hang with and befriend.

A natural calling tocrowd out the bad you see is not in everyone, as illustrated in this thread.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

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CommonMan101 wrote:

When the bad guys shrink from you walking in the room and you are a threat to them by your mere presence - you are a sheepdog.

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lol, well I guess we just eliminated the "sheepdog" category.

Next thread!

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CommonMan101 wrote:

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

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While I understand a wise persons lack of desire to enter into any avoidable life-threatening situation, I am amazed that so many wouldn't care about anyone else.

Yes, if I have my children with me, they are my MAIN concern and their safety comes first. I don't draw fire toward them by trying to be a hero but will defend them with my life. If I am alone then I have alot less worry for my safety (although I want to return home to my family) and more freedom to decide whether to engage.

I partly OC to stand up against evil and hopefully prevent it. I have no problem stopping an attack with lethal force and hope to never need to do so. Anyone that has the capability to stop evil needs to understand that the lack of action allows that evil to continue. If you don't stop a rapist and walk away, that rapist will most likely rape again. If police caught, prosecuted-successfully, punished and rehabilitated every criminal I might be more willing to allow the threat to pass by. BUT knowing how poor any (especially our) legal system work I can't live with myself knowing I allowed the crime to continue or escape with no action on my part.

I hope to God that if my kids are ever in a situation when I am not around, and need someone to stop an attack that there is someone willing to protect strangers from evil rather than lurk away into the shadows as evil fornicates.

As far as hero's go, the ability to do what needs to be done in presence of extreme fear unveils a persons heroism. The female police officer at Ft Hood is a hero. She may claim she was doing just what needed to be done. Not many know what they would do in such a situation but it is a choice and decision not to yield to evil regardless of the consequences. I hope that I would be so brave,although I think I would still need to changemyboxers afterwards.

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marshaul wrote:

CommonMan101 wrote:

When the bad guys shrink from you walking in the room and you are a threat to them by your mere presence - you are a sheepdog.

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lol, well I guess I'm nota "sheepdog" since they can't tell I'm a good guy by how I look and I really don't give a flip about anyone else.

Next thread!

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There. fixed it for ya.

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Dogs are animals that do what they're told, round up sheep for shearing and slaughter, can't keep their noses out of the sheep's business, and eat their own poo. Like the sheep, they are just animnals owned by someone else.

Alex, I'll take "human" for $200, please.

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Tomahawk wrote:

Dogs are animals that do what they're told, round up sheep for shearing and slaughter, can't keep their noses out of the sheep's business, and eat their own poo. Like the sheep, they are just animnals owned by someone else.

Alex, I'll take "human" for $200, please.

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lol, pwnt! Good one.

I no longer even feel the need to respond to the post above! :lol:

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Tomahawk wrote:

Dogs are animals that do what they're told, round up sheep for shearing and slaughter, can't keep their noses out of the sheep's business, and eat their own poo. Like the sheep, they are just animnals owned by someone else.

Alex, I'll take "human" for $200, please.

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+1

So, now, when a cop passes near on foot, instead of saying, "I smell bacon", I should look at the bottom of my shoes and say, "I smell dog$hit. Who stepped in it?"