glock4me
New member
imported post
Why can't they simply say that possession of firearms/weapons must comply with all provisions of Florida Statutes?Properly secured means the weapon shall be locked away and not accessible to minors, and if in a tent, means the weapon shall be secured in a locked container.
Why is the post blank?
Because when the legislature ordered DEP to come into compliance with the statute it included language in the bill ordering that a part of the new rule would include that safe storage language. The DEP has been ordered by the legislature to include that language in the rule and they did so there is no preemption conflict. See HB 1029Glock23-4-Me wrote:
Do we now need to challenge them on the following?Why can't they simply say that possession of firearms/weapons must comply with all provisions of Florida Statutes?Properly secured means the weapon shall be locked away and not accessible to minors, and if in a tent, means the weapon shall be secured in a locked container.
brboyer wrote:Because when the legislature ordered DEP to come into compliance with the statute it included language in the bill ordering that a part of the new rule would include that safe storage language. The DEP has been ordered by the legislature to include that language in the rule and they did so there is no preemption conflict. See HB 1029Glock23-4-Me wrote:
Do we now need to challenge them on the following?Why can't they simply say that possession of firearms/weapons must comply with all provisions of Florida Statutes?Properly secured means the weapon shall be locked away and not accessible to minors, and if in a tent, means the weapon shall be secured in a locked container.
Which does not require a "locked container"The Department of Environmental Protection shall amend rule 62D-2.014(10), Florida Administrative Code, to allow the possession of weapons in compliance with all applicable Florida Statutes. The rule shall be amended to indicate that such weapons shall be at all times in the possession of a responsible party or properly secured within or to a vehicle or temporary housing, which shall include motor homes, travel trailers, recreational vehicles, campers, tents, or other enclosed structures, while in state parks.
Yes, but Public Law 2006-103 specifically directs the DEP to make their regulation comply with all Florida Statutes. And it says nothing about locking the weapon in a tent, it merely states "properly secured" which a reasonable person would believe that complying with the applicable statute is sufficient.Just because it is covered elsewhere in the statutes, does not mean that the legislature cannot define it differently in this situation. A good example is the definition of possession of a firearm. Normally throughout statutes posession has one meaning, but it has a different specific definition when it comes to posession of a firearm while intoxicated.
If the legislature requires an agency to make a specific rule and passes a law doing so then the rule does not violate the preemption clause or any other statute for purposes of that rule, b/c the legislature can redfifine whatever it wants by passing a law. Preemption does not apply to the legislature. It is the pre-emptor. As long as it is constitutional it is ok.
The Court can only interpret secure storage where the legislature leavves it open to interpretation. If the legislature defines it, it take precedence over prior court interpretations, and the Courts will follow the new definition.
And before it is asked, No this does not change the meaning of securely encased or secure storage for other laws.
The rule proglumated:Section 3. The Department of Environmental Protection shall amend rule 62D-2.014(10), Florida Administrative Code, to allow the possession of weapons in compliance with all applicable Florida Statutes. The rule shall be amended to indicate that such weapons shall be at all times in the possession of a responsible party or properly secured within or to a vehicle or temporary housing, which shall include motor homes, travel trailers, recreational vehicles, campers, tents, or other enclosed structures, while in state parks
was OK up to this point but then the DEP decided to exceed their authority and add the 'locked in tent' provision as well as the 'open carry' prohibition (which we all know was unlawful)Weapons shall at all times be in possession of a responsible party or properly secured within or to a vehicle or temporary housing, which shall include motor homes, travel trailers, recreational vehicles, campers, tents, or other enclosed structures, while in state parks.
Properly secured means the weapon shall be locked away and not accessible to minors, and if in a tent means the weapon shall be secured in a locked container. No person shall use or openly display in any state park weapons such as firearms of any type, air rifles, spring guns, cross bows, bows and arrows, gigs (except in areas where gigs may be legally used for saltwater fishing), sling shots, electronic weapons, devices which fire a dart or projectile, or any other forms of weapons or trapping devices potentially dangerous to wildlife or human safety except when such weapons or traps are used for resource management purposes as authorized in this subsection.
Probably an acceptable delegation of authority allowing the DEP to decide what the definition of properly secured when not on the person, especially since storage in a tent is not addressed anywhere in the statutes. The legislature can delegate such authority even when they have restricted authority to themselves otherwise.fridaddy wrote:Yes, but Public Law 2006-103 specifically directs the DEP to make their regulation comply with all Florida Statutes. And it says nothing about locking the weapon in a tent, it merely states "properly secured" which a reasonable person would believe that complying with the applicable statute is sufficient.Just because it is covered elsewhere in the statutes, does not mean that the legislature cannot define it differently in this situation. A good example is the definition of possession of a firearm. Normally throughout statutes posession has one meaning, but it has a different specific definition when it comes to posession of a firearm while intoxicated.
If the legislature requires an agency to make a specific rule and passes a law doing so then the rule does not violate the preemption clause or any other statute for purposes of that rule, b/c the legislature can redfifine whatever it wants by passing a law. Preemption does not apply to the legislature. It is the pre-emptor. As long as it is constitutional it is ok.
The Court can only interpret secure storage where the legislature leavves it open to interpretation. If the legislature defines it, it take precedence over prior court interpretations, and the Courts will follow the new definition.
And before it is asked, No this does not change the meaning of securely encased or secure storage for other laws.
The rule proglumated:Section 3. The Department of Environmental Protection shall amend rule 62D-2.014(10), Florida Administrative Code, to allow the possession of weapons in compliance with all applicable Florida Statutes. The rule shall be amended to indicate that such weapons shall be at all times in the possession of a responsible party or properly secured within or to a vehicle or temporary housing, which shall include motor homes, travel trailers, recreational vehicles, campers, tents, or other enclosed structures, while in state parks
was OK up to this point but then the DEP decided to exceed their authority and add the 'locked in tent' provision as well as the 'open carry' prohibition (which we all know was unlawful)Weapons shall at all times be in possession of a responsible party or properly secured within or to a vehicle or temporary housing, which shall include motor homes, travel trailers, recreational vehicles, campers, tents, or other enclosed structures, while in state parks.
Properly secured means the weapon shall be locked away and not accessible to minors, and if in a tent means the weapon shall be secured in a locked container. No person shall use or openly display in any state park weapons such as firearms of any type, air rifles, spring guns, cross bows, bows and arrows, gigs (except in areas where gigs may be legally used for saltwater fishing), sling shots, electronic weapons, devices which fire a dart or projectile, or any other forms of weapons or trapping devices potentially dangerous to wildlife or human safety except when such weapons or traps are used for resource management purposes as authorized in this subsection.
The rule as it currently exists exceeds the authority granted by the Legislature in 2006-103 and is therefore unlawful and unenforceable.