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Thread: The University of Utah is enforcing a ban on open carry!

  1. #1
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    OK guys, wanna see something that will really make your head spin?

    A source of mine that shall remain nameless provided me with the attached pamphlet.

    My source tells me that the University of Utah's police chief is under the order of the president of the University of Utah to actively enforce a ban on open carry, and that they want a test case.

    Call your Senator, your representative, the Attorney General and demand that you want clarification to the law, or an AG opinion stating that just because a person is permitted to carry concealed, does not mean that the person is required to do so.

    And it does not stop with open carry either. It looks as if they want to charge you with as many crimes as they possibly can.

    If you find this document hard to read, the PDF can be found here. http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/attachment.php?id=8597















    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    Too hard for my crappy eyes to read. I will get one from you tonight.

    Should talk to Mitch and see if he wants to try the test case -- with a free lawyer I am sure someone would step up to the plate...


    EDIT: When I think of UofU administration, why does the term "Kicking against the pricks" come to mind? They are bound and determined to prove that they are above the law...

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    We should all go for a nice walk around campus one of these gorgeous fall nights!

    Class action, anyone?

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    ScottyT wrote:
    We should all go for a nice walk around campus one of these gorgeous fall nights!

    Class action, anyone?
    Perhaps we should go on a walk around campus WITH Mitch Vilos, and maybe even Mark Shurtleff.

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    GeneticsDave wrote:
    ScottyT wrote:
    We should all go for a nice walk around campus one of these gorgeous fall nights!

    Class action, anyone?
    Perhaps we should go on a walk around campus WITH Mitch Vilos, and maybe even Mark Shurtleff.
    Great idea.

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    Regular Member Utah_Patriot's Avatar
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    Agreed

    their policy is straight to jail
    Zach
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    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity"

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    jaredbelch wrote:
    GeneticsDave wrote:
    ScottyT wrote:
    We should all go for a nice walk around campus one of these gorgeous fall nights!

    Class action, anyone?
    Perhaps we should go on a walk around campus WITH Mitch Vilos, and maybe even Mark Shurtleff.
    Great idea.
    trouble finds many who dont even go looking.. may the wise be warned!

  8. #8
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    GeneticsDave wrote:
    Perhaps we should go on a walk around campus WITH Mitch Vilos, and maybe even Mark Shurtleff.
    It is probably a good idea not to have your best defense lawyer end up a defendant himself. Make him aware of your plans and be sure you can reach him when you need him.

    Shurtleff is considered a peace officer exempt from weapons laws. And I'd bet that walking around with him would assure you not get arrested...that day. But what about next time?

    So the question is, what is your goal? Just to poke the U in the eye one day? Or is it to create a nice, clean test case?

    Either is a fine goal, just be aware of what your goal is.

    I'd suggest that if your goal is to poke them in the eye, convincing Shurtleff and about 100 of your closest OCing friends to join you is the way to go.

    However, if you want to have nice clean test case, the fewer people involved the better. You don't want the question of OC being clouded by some idiot or even agent provocateur committing an actual crime while OCing. If your goal is a nice clean test case, get with Mitch or other competent counsel. Be sure you have the funding needed to mount an aggressive defense, after making bail. Be sure your attorney is expecting your call, has sufficient bail cash if needed, and that you can reach him if a custodial arrest is made. Then, get no more than 1 or 2 close, mature, level headed friends with valid permits, and dressed in business casual or better. Have a voice recorded concealed on each person. Have one or two additional close friends come along with small, easy to hide video recorders.

    Station video recorder friends far enough away to not be part of the group, but close enough to get good video. Then walk up to the nearest police officer on campus and ask directions to the bookstore so you can go buy some UoU memorabilia. Be VERY careful not to argue with the officer, not to raise your voice, not to make any threatening moves. Moderate voice tone and volume. Do not make any threats. If he wants to cite or arrest you, do not resist. You want any case to focus ONLY on OC with a permit in a school zone; NOT on disorderly conduct, resisting arrest (can be as small as refusing to turn around and put your hands on your head when ordered to do so), or any other BS crime that is actually a crime. Once detained or arrested, exercise your right to remain silent.

    Now, this all said, there is always a chance of being convicted.

    So, you might also consult with Mitch to see if there is enough evidence of the U planning to push for a test case to simply take them to court to ask for a restraining order before someone is arrested.

    Just some food for thought. I am NOT a lawyer.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

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    Please pdf the document and post, thanks.

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    I'll be up to SLC in December just before Christmas. If folks are willing to help with any legal fallout, I'll be your Huckleberry...



    P.S. Any OC meets between 16 and 31 Dec?

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    Regular Member UtahJarhead's Avatar
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    IANAL, all that jazz, but they're stating that it's illegal under 76-10-505.5

    Linky: http://www.le.utah.gov/UtahCode/getC...de=76-10-505.5

    It states (as most of you know) no guns on a school campus unless authorized by law. One of those laws specifically states that a CFP holder is exempt from the school premises law. The LE guidance in the scanned document states:

    1. If someone is complaining, they have the right to press criminal charges (not sure how THAT'S legal)
    2. The officer may sieze the weapon as evidence (not only 2A gone out the window, but there goes 4A as well)
    a. If siezing it will inflame the situation, the officer can video the confrontation in lieu of the siezure (sounds like they themselves aren't too sure about the legality of the siezure)
    3. The officer will order the person to conceal their handgun. If they refuse to conceal them, they will screen charges through the District Attorney. If it's a first time offender, they'll get off with a warning, instead.

    Sounds like they're not even sure of their own actions.

    I'm up for open carrying there! I'm a CFP holder. My little Ruger LCP isn't exactly intimidating, but the best gun to have is the one on you.

    All but the first 2 pages are them citing state law. IMO, the person that drew this up never even saw the CFP exemption listed right there in 76-10-505.5

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    Regular Member UtahJarhead's Avatar
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    In my opinion, this needs to be made as high a profile as possible seeing as this is the largest public college in Utah.* It's the centerpiece and if the Antis can win UofU, it's a steamroll across all other students' rights in the state.

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    UtahJarhead wrote:
    I'm not too tired, so it's time for me to act instead of being an armchair protester or an armchair politician... The below was sent to Mark Shurtleff via his Senate campaign website:

    It's been brought to our attention that an illegal act has been ordered by the University of Utah. As someone concerned with my Second Amendment, I am writing you to ask that you weigh in on the exact legality of their stance.

    A leaked pamphlet here is being linked here: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...mp;forum_id=52

    This pamphlet orders UofU police officers to arrest anybody open carrying a handgun in plain sight, HOLSTERED, if the person refuses to conceal it, even though they are specifically exempt from the law they are citing (UL 76-10-505.5 link: http://www.le.utah.gov/UtahCode/getC...de=76-10-505.5 ) by having a Concealed Firearm permit. The law states that the weapon does NOT have to be concealed. It states that you may NOT carry a weapon on any school premises unless you are allowed by law, one of the ways you are exempt is the aforementioned CFP. As the current AG, can they legally do this? If a group of Concealed Firearm Permit holders got together to legally protest this by actively open carrying holstered handguns, would we have the support of the current Attorney General of the state of Utah?

    I intend on voting and standing up for you, but first I need to know if you will stand up for me when it counts.
    In my opinion, this needs to be made as high a profile as possible seeing as this is the largest public college in Utah. It's the centerpiece and if the Antis can win UofU, it's a steamroll across all other students' rights in the state.
    Shurtleff dropped out of the Senate race.

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    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    Mike wrote:
    Please pdf the document and post, thanks.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    Police Reference Guide in 300 dpi PDF file with text searching:

    http://www.mediafire.com/file/3jt0my...C_RefGuide.pdf

    More hosting links in next post! Enjoy!

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    I am going to post this on a bunch of hosting sites so we have PLENTY of places to retrieve it from. For now, here is the file from OCDO:

  17. #17
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    Thanks Dave! :celebrate I am still building on my techie skillz... teh interwebz can be a tricky beast. :P
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    More links for Reference Guide download:

    Mirror 1
    Mirror 2
    Mirror 3
    Mirror 4
    Mirror 5
    Mirror 6
    Mirror 7
    Mirror 8
    Mirror 9
    Mirror 10

    That should be good for now.

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    Interesting.... by my read the U of U Police Chief (or whoever it was that produced this "guide" Deleted ANY REFERENCE TO THE 'Authorized by law' portions of the laws copied and made no reference regarding CWP holders EXEMPTION to the Certain Laws! Could he be INTENTIONALLY SETTING HIS OFFICERS UP?

    Seems like he WANTS TO WASTE TAX PAYER MONEY BOTH TO PROSECUTE UNDER A CRIMINAL ACTION AND THEN DEFEND UNDER THE 1983 CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATION STATUTES!

    Doesn't sound very much like a WISE USE OF FUNDS that would have otherwise been available to the School for HIGH EDUCATION USES.

    Sure wish we could deduct any funds he loses in this from the next years budget allotment given the school from the state AND HAVE HIM PERSONALLY FUND THAT PORTION OF THE SCHOOLS NEEDS!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    I wonder....

    Since I am NOT a student.... Maybe I should go SOON and see just what I need to do to enroll as a student while exercising my US Constitutional 2nd amendment rights as well as my UTAH State constitutionally guaranteed rights as well as the priviledges of my Utah state issued CWP that ALLOWS me to conceal but doesn't require it and allows me to CARRY in a school!

    Would that make me the "PERFECT TEST CASE?"
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    If the person has a valid permit, and a complaining party desires criminal charges be filed, the officer will inform the offender that criminal charges will he screened with the District Attorney.
    So just because some one wants to "complain" they can change the law and go after you?

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    I Would be up for a open carry event any of you? as long that we have the AG side.

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    Regular Member UtahJarhead's Avatar
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    I'll do it. I need to enroll in school again anyhow (seriously).

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    Please be warned they will take your firearm and take you to Jail.
    Zach
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    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity"

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    gunsfreak4791 wrote:
    Please be warned they will take your firearm and take you to Jail.
    Can they legally even do that if you have a permit?

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