Email to Elk Grove Police Chief - Open Carry

mavue · Nov 6, 2009

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I emailed the following to the Elk Grove Chief of Police @ 2:19pm today:

I am a resident in the City of Elk Grove and have the following inquiries.

I am trying to get clarification on gun laws in the City of Elk Grove and the unincorporated areas thereof, specifically unloaded open carry of firearms.

Lets assume I am in the local supermarket carrying an unloaded pistol in a belt
holster (visible) and have a ammo clip on the belt (visible). Would I be in violation
of any law?

Also, would I be in violation of any law if I were driving in my car, carrying
unconcealed, unloaded in the same manner or have my firearm and magazine on the dash or passenger seat?

Thanks for your attention to this matter.

I received the following email back from Caption Bob Risedorph, Acting Chief of Police @ 3:10pm:

The gun laws in Elk Grove are the same as the laws throughout the State of California.

I am assuming you would otherwise be allowed to possess a firearm (i.e. you are not convicted of certain crimes or legally prohibited from possessing a firearm or ammunition), that you are not in an area were possession of a firearm is prohibited, and that you do not intend to use the firearm to commit a felony. Then, in each of your scenarios, you would not be in violation of any law I am aware of. You should expect, though, that a Peace Officer would reasonably seek to inspect your firearm to determine if it was in fact not loaded.

I then replied withthe following inquiry 10:13pm:

Wow, that was a quick response, awesome, wasn't expecting that. Thank you. I am having trouble with Penal Code Section 12026.1. If my firearm is in a locked container, may it be loaded? I am getting different answer from different sources.

On another note, where is Chief Lehner?

Once again, thank you for your speedy response, I am impressed.

Yeah,I knowI didn't put a "s" after "answer". Hopefully the reply will clearup some confusion whether a firearm can be loaded or notin a locked container.

Also I am new to the forums and UOC. I want UOC soon, maybe right in front of the Elk Grove PD. It's actually a five minute walk to the Elk Grove Wal-mart. So maybe a walk from EGPD to Wal-mart. Anyone in?

CA_Libertarian · Nov 6, 2009

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An unusally straightforward answer from a LEO. I'm impressed with Elk Grove!

Generally, LEOs aren't up-to-snuff on open carry, so you'll often get incorrect information. Other times, they'll simply tell you that they "don't give out legal advice" and advise you to "consult your own attorney" on the matter.

To answer your second question about 12026.1 -- 12031 applies whether the firearm is carried openly or legally concealed.

ETA: I would hold of on open carry until you are more familiar with the laws. From the questions you are posing here, it is fairly obvious you have much more to learn. Be patient, study diligently... nobody here wants to hear about you getting put in the clink for missing a minor detail of law.

mavue · Nov 7, 2009

imported post

CA_Libertarian wrote:

An unusally straightforward answer from a LEO. I'm impressed with Elk Grove!

Generally, LEOs aren't up-to-snuff on open carry, so you'll often get incorrect information. Other times, they'll simply tell you that they "don't give out legal advice" and advise you to "consult your own attorney" on the matter.

I was really surprised myself.

To answer your second question about 12026.1 -- 12031 applies whether the firearm is carried openly or legally concealed.

So basically carrying loaded in a locked container is ILLEGAL? That's the thing, I have read post that say it's is fine and then there's others like yours that say it's not okay.

ETA: I would hold of on open carry until you are more familiar with the laws. From the questions you are posing here, it is fairly obvious you have much more to learn. Be patient, study diligently... nobody here wants to hear about you getting put in the clink for missing a minor detail of law.

I have only been looking into Open Carry for about 2 weeks. I have read all the post in regards to open carry in the California section, all the penal codes that are Open Carry related. I don't think I can get more familiar with the laws then I am now except for the last question above. My first email was basically to get a feel from the EGPD. None the last, I am still not ready to UOC yet.

CA_Libertarian · Nov 7, 2009

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mavue wrote:

To answer your second question about 12026.1 -- 12031 applies whether the firearm is carried openly or legally concealed.

Click to expand...

So basically carrying loaded in a locked container is ILLEGAL? That's the thing, I have read post that say it's is fine and then there's others like yours that say it's not okay.

12031 stands alone. It is completely separate, independant, and unrelated to 12025, 12026, or any other penal code section.

12031 plainly states that in prohibited areas, you can NOT carry loaded. There is no "locked container" exception to 12031, so it still applies.

I'm not sure where you read a post saying it would be legal to carry loaded in a locked container... but if you direct me to that post I'd be glad to lay into the author for giving out harmful info.

Bull Frog · Nov 7, 2009

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CA_Libertarian wrote:

mavue wrote:

To answer your second question about 12026.1 -- 12031 applies whether the firearm is carried openly or legally concealed.

Click to expand...

So basically carrying loaded in a locked container is ILLEGAL? That's the thing, I have read post that say it's is fine and then there's others like yours that say it's not okay.

Click to expand...

12031 stands alone. It is completely separate, independant, and unrelated to 12025, 12026, or any other penal code section.

12031 plainly states that in prohibited areas, you can NOT carry loaded. There is no "locked container" exception to 12031, so it still applies.

I'm not sure where you read a post saying it would be legal to carry loaded in a locked container... but if you direct me to that post I'd be glad to lay into the author for giving out harmful info.

Carrying an weapon (firearm), be it unloaded, concealed, loaded in plain sight, or ..... whatever, is not a good idea. Sooner or later, LEOs will get you, because LEOs have no respect or understanding of second amendment rights. The second amendment is clear, however what is not clear, or legal, are all the local laws that fly in the face of our right to keep and bear arms.

So, how do we approach this problem? Education. Even police can be educated, but the bigger problem is money. For UOC or LOC, we will have go grease the wheels, yes, pay for the right which is already ours, but has been stultified by local governments, which insist on taxing citizens for rights and privileges for which they bled to death under the rising sun in the east, long ago.

HankT · Nov 7, 2009

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mavue wrote:

I emailed the following to the Elk Grove Chief of Police @ 2:19pm today:

I am a resident in the City of Elk Grove and have the following inquiries.

I am trying to get clarification on gun laws in the City of Elk Grove and the unincorporated areas thereof, specifically unloaded open carry of firearms.

Lets assume I am in the local supermarket carrying an unloaded pistol in a belt
holster (visible) and have a ammo clip on the belt (visible). Would I be in violation
of any law?

Also, would I be in violation of any law if I were driving in my car, carrying
unconcealed, unloaded in the same manner or have my firearm and magazine on the dash or passenger seat?

Thanks for your attention to this matter.

I received the following email back from Caption Bob Risedorph, ...

Nice job, mavue. The ole direct question approach. It's a good start.

AyatollahGondola · Nov 7, 2009

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mavue wrote:

Also I am new to the forums and UOC. I want UOC soon, maybe right in front of the Elk Grove PD. It's actually a five minute walk to the Elk Grove Wal-mart. So maybe a walk from EGPD to Wal-mart. Anyone in?

I could probably meet up with you for that

mavue · Nov 7, 2009

imported post

Lead Lobber wrote:

Carrying an weapon (firearm), be it unloaded, concealed, loaded in plain sight, or ..... whatever, is not a good idea. Sooner or later, LEOs will get you, because LEOs have no respect or understanding of second amendment rights. The second amendment is clear, however what is not clear, or legal, are all the local laws that fly in the face of our right to keep and bear arms.

So, how do we approach this problem? Education. Even police can be educated, but the bigger problem is money. For UOC or LOC, we will have go grease the wheels, yes, pay for the right which is already ours, but has been stultified by local governments, which insist on taxing citizens for rights and privileges for which they bled to death under the rising sun in the east, long ago.

Should we give up then?

AyatollahGondola · Nov 8, 2009

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mavue wrote:

Should we give up then?

No

coolusername2007 · Nov 8, 2009

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AyatollahGondola wrote:

mavue wrote:

Should we give up then?

Click to expand...

No

Absolutely not. We should support Theseus and his appeal. His case is an excellent opportunity to challenge and defeat this state's perspective on private property as well as the GFSZ act.

mavue · Nov 10, 2009

imported post

mavue wrote:

I emailed the following to the Elk Grove Chief of Police @ 2:19pm today:

I am a resident in the City of Elk Grove and have the following inquiries.

I am trying to get clarification on gun laws in the City of Elk Grove and the unincorporated areas thereof, specifically unloaded open carry of firearms.

Lets assume I am in the local supermarket carrying an unloaded pistol in a belt
holster (visible) and have a ammo clip on the belt (visible). Would I be in violation
of any law?

Also, would I be in violation of any law if I were driving in my car, carrying
unconcealed, unloaded in the same manner or have my firearm and magazine on the dash or passenger seat?

Thanks for your attention to this matter.

I received the following email back from Caption Bob Risedorph, Acting Chief of Police @ 3:10pm:

The gun laws in Elk Grove are the same as the laws throughout the State of California.

I am assuming you would otherwise be allowed to possess a firearm (i.e. you are not convicted of certain crimes or legally prohibited from possessing a firearm or ammunition), that you are not in an area were possession of a firearm is prohibited, and that you do not intend to use the firearm to commit a felony. Then, in each of your scenarios, you would not be in violation of any law I am aware of. You should expect, though, that a Peace Officer would reasonably seek to inspect your firearm to determine if it was in fact not loaded.

I then replied withthe following inquiry 10:13pm:

Wow, that was a quick response, awesome, wasn't expecting that. Thank you. I am having trouble with Penal Code Section 12026.1. If my firearm is in a locked container, may it be loaded? I am getting different answer from different sources.

On another note, where is Chief Lehner?

Once again, thank you for your speedy response, I am impressed.

Yeah,I knowI didn't put a "s" after "answer". Hopefully the reply will clearup some confusion whether a firearm can be loaded or notin a locked container.

Also I am new to the forums and UOC. I want UOC soon, maybe right in front of the Elk Grove PD. It's actually a five minute walk to the Elk Grove Wal-mart. So maybe a walk from EGPD to Wal-mart. Anyone in?

Reply from acting Police Chief on Monday @ 6:37am

12026.1 would not allow you to carry a loaded firearm….

BOB RISEDORPH

Old Timer · Nov 11, 2009

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CA_Libertarian wrote:

12031 stands alone. It is completely separate, independant, and unrelated to 12025, 12026, or any other penal code section.

With the exception of 12050.

demnogis · Nov 11, 2009

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Is it true those permits are stamped in platinum? Heheh...

Old Timer wrote:

CA_Libertarian wrote:

12031 stands alone. It is completely separate, independant, and unrelated to 12025, 12026, or any other penal code section.

Click to expand...

With the exception of 12050.

Old Timer · Nov 12, 2009

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demnogis wrote:

Is it true those permits are stamped in platinum? Heheh...

Not quite, but pretty close! Well, actually, the opposite is true. Mine is the cheapest paper laminated with the cheapest laminate I have ever seen!

Decoligny · Nov 12, 2009

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demnogis wrote:

Is it true those permits are stamped in platinum? Heheh...

Old Timer wrote:

CA_Libertarian wrote:

12031 stands alone. It is completely separate, independant, and unrelated to 12025, 12026, or any other penal code section.

Click to expand...

With the exception of 12050.

Click to expand...

I believe the metal is referred to as "unobtainium".

mjones · Nov 12, 2009

imported post

Old Timer wrote:

demnogis wrote:

Is it true those permits are stamped in platinum? Heheh...

Click to expand...

Not quite, but pretty close! Well, actually, the opposite is true. Mine is the cheapest paper laminated with the cheapest laminate I have ever seen!

They call it 'Rice Paper' for a reason...I've seen more durable tissue

Email to Elk Grove Police Chief - Open Carry

mavue

Regular Member

CA_Libertarian

State Researcher

mavue

Regular Member

CA_Libertarian

State Researcher

Bull Frog

Regular Member

HankT

State Researcher

AyatollahGondola

Regular Member

mavue

Regular Member

AyatollahGondola

Regular Member

coolusername2007

Regular Member

mavue

Regular Member

Old Timer

Regular Member

demnogis

Regular Member

Old Timer

Regular Member

Decoligny

Regular Member

mjones

Regular Member