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Thread: House Passed Health Bill!!!!!

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    Regular Member swatspyder's Avatar
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    Fox news page is down, so here is cnn....

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/11/...are/index.html

    Washington (CNN) -- The House of Representatives on Saturday night passed a sweeping health care bill by a vote of 220-215.
    With the passage of H.R. 3962, the Affordable Health Care for America Act, proponents of health care reform took an important step forward, but turning the bill into law remains uncertain.
    It's unclear when the Senate will vote on a version of the health care legislation debated in that chamber. If the Senate passes its bill, the House and Senate bills would have to be reconciled into one document and voted on again.
    The House Democrats needed 218 votes to ensure passage of the bill. On Saturday, it appeared the vote would come down to the wire, as the intentions of some conservative Democrats remained unknown.
    In the final tally, 219 Democrats voted for the legislation, and 39 voted against it.
    Rep. Joe Cao (R-Louisiana) was the only Republican who voted in favor of the bill.
    Read the House bill (PDF)
    Democrats began counting down with eight seconds left in the voting period and erupted in a loud cheer when the hotly debated legislation was passed. Republicans in the chamber stood across the floor, some with their arms folded.
    "Oh what a night," said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi in a news conference after the House adjourned its session for the night. She thanked President Obama and her colleagues who fought to get the bill passed.
    The Republican National Committee released a statement after the vote.
    "Today with help from their liberal House allies, President Obama and Nancy Pelosi finally got what they have been creating behind closed doors these past months -- a government-run health careexperiment that will increase families' health care costs, increase the deficit, increase taxes on small businesses and the middle class, and cut Medicare," the statement said.
    Earlier, the House passed an amendment to pending health care legislation that prohibits federal funds for abortion services in the public option and in the insurance "exchange" the bill would create.
    The vote passed 240-194.
    Share your thoughts on the health care debate
    A second amendment considered by the House, introduced by Minority Leader John Boehner, which would have substituted several sections of the health care bill dealing with insurance, did not pass. Legislators voted against the amendment 258-176.
    The first amendment, introduced by anti-abortion Democrats, bans federal funds for abortion services in the public option and in the insurance "exchange" the bill would create. Its consideration was considered a big win for them and for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, which used its power -- especially with conservative Democrats in swing congressional districts -- to help force other Democratic leaders to permit a vote that most of them oppose.
    The prohibition, introduced by Democratic members, including Rep. Brad Ellsworth, D-Indiana, and Rep. Bart Stupak, D-Michigan, would exclude cases of rape, incest or if the mother's life is in danger.
    Republicans strongly supported the measure.
    The GOP accounted for 174 of the votes in favor of the amendment, with 1 Republican voting "present." On the Democrats' side, 64 voted for the measure, and 194 voted against.
    Earlier Saturday, President Obama said members of the House of Representatives face the chance of a lifetime as they consider the legislation.
    After a meeting with the House Democratic leadership, the president said he told lawmakers that "opportunities like this come around maybe once in a generation."
    "This is their moment, this is our moment, to live up to the trust that the American people have placed in us," Obama told reporters in the White House rose garden. "Even when it's hard, especially when it's hard, this is our moment to deliver."


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    to bad we dont do oiur health care like france or canada. no ones turned away.

    we shouldn't be the laughing stock of nations we should have the best health care and it shouldn't be about money

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    Regular Member sempercarry's Avatar
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    hello socialism

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    sempercarry wrote:
    hello socialism
    It all depends on how it all goes. The article is right, this is at best an experiment right now, and if that experiment doesn't go well, it could just break the back of the democrats for many, many years to come.

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Boo Boo wrote:
    to bad we dont do oiur health care like france or canada. no ones turned away.

    we shouldn't be the laughing stock of nations we should have the best health care and it shouldn't be about money
    Are you for real? Your health care is YOUR responsibility. Just like putting a roof over your head & food on the table. Responsibility, NOT a right. Neither you, nor the government, nor anyone else has the right to take on single penny away from me or anyone else and give it to someone who can't provide for themselves due to their own poor decisions in life.
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    Any health care worker has the right to make money.Drug companies have the right to make a profit.None of these people or companies owe you anything.God help anyone who tries to arrest me or my neighbors for not buying health care.This is blatent socialism and no one wants it.

    It is not my responsibility to use any portion of my income to pay for someone elses health care.Nor is it yours.Its time we start standind our ground against the socialism in America.Its not what this country was built on.

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    Regular Member killchain's Avatar
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    Boo Boo wrote:
    to bad we dont do oiur health care like france or canada. no ones turned away.

    we shouldn't be the laughing stock of nations we should have the best health care and it shouldn't be about money
    Sorry. I don't mind paying more money for someone to do my health care if that means they'll do it right. Anyone here who's dealt with Medicare/aid or the Veteran's Administration can tell you all about "government plans."

    My wife has a chronic disease. Under my private insurance, she gets the meds tailored to her illness and we have it under control. If she needs to see a doctor, she sees one within three days.

    Medicare/aid would rather feed her Prednisone and let her bones hollow out and she develop Type 2 diabetes. And that's assuming she got to see a doctor within six months.

    Canada has a six month waiting period on average for specialists (meaning cancer doctors, orthopedics, etc.) Average wait time for surgeries are a year and a half.

    You want free government healthcare, Boo Boo? Marry a Canadian.
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stuart Mill

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    Socialisim at its best, remember this is about control not health care.
    Throw me to the wolves and I will come back leading the pack.

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    so I take it the 36 other nations that have better health care than the US don't do it right. yeah, charging people 10 times the amount of what it costs elsewhere. everyone deserves health care. or should we just let the poor die cause they can't afford it? or make people poor trying to get better?

    or from what I see here let the drug companies pay off the senatorsto keep health care rates high. no wonder people are working in their 70's+ just so they can afford to have basic health care

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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    Why would you insist that you have the right for someone else to provide for you.Everyone does have the right to health care as long as they pay for it themselves.

    Thats like saying if I came up with the cure for cancer I wouldn't have the right to make money from it.Thats free enterprise.Or if your neighbor looses his job and is about to be evicted you should be required to pay his rent.Thats socialism and no one wants it.Eveyone has the right to there own not someone elses.

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    Boo Boo wrote:
    so I take it the 36 other nations that have better health care than the US don't do it right. yeah, charging people 10 times the amount of what it costs elsewhere. everyone deserves health care. or should we just let the poor die cause they can't afford it? or make people poor trying to get better?

    or from what I see here let the drug companies pay off the senatorsto keep health care rates high. no wonder people are working in their 70's+ just so they can afford to have basic health care
    It's not a question of morality. Of course we don't want anyone to die. What we have to look at is the purpose of the Government. It's there to provide for the common defense, not the common welfare. If you want to go feed a homeless person, great, knock yourself out. Should there be a higher tax on me to go and feed him? Hell no!

    You have a right to PERSUE happiness. That doesn't mean you have the right to be happy! Chasing it is your right. Other than that, life and liberty are the ONLY things guaranteed to an individual. Unless you just don't like the Constitution...

    Can you really cite VERIFIABLE examples of how those socialist countries have our health care system beat? No $hit, real examples? I'll not accept any referencefrom media or M. Moore.

    Yeah, if you're an American in one of those countries,you skip right to the front of the line. Why? THEY KNOW THEY'LL GET PAID! If you're one of the citizens from a country with that kind of program, good luck seeing a Doctor in a reasonable amount of time.

    The big picture is government intrusion. How can you think you can mandate what another American does? Now you're infringing on my right to liberty if I refuse to pay... Oh, I forgot, the Constitution isn't really that important, right? The Founding Fathers were nice and smart enough to put that nullification clause in there should we decide to elect hope and change.

    Get it through your heads that something that makes you feel good, should not give you the right to force your morality on another American. For God's sake, Boo Boo, you took an oath to the Constitution, doesn't that mean ANYTHING to you?

    You (WE)fought for freedom, not to give the government the right to take away our choices. With mandatory health care, we loose a little more of what we were supposed to be and that is FREE!



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    Commodore76 wrote:
    Boo Boo wrote:
    SNIP so I take it...
    SNIP You have a right to PERSUE happiness. That doesn't mean you have the right to be happy! Chasing it is your right. Other than that, life and liberty are the ONLY things guaranteed to an individual.
    viva John Locke!!

    http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/l/locke/john/l81s/
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Commodore76 wrote:
    SNIP With mandatory health care, we loose a little more of what we were supposed to be and that is FREE!
    We also lose the ability to purchase or invest the money seized from us topay for Health Scam.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    Pecisely Commadore.For example My daughter works her ass off as a Bank manager.She Finished scool with high marks started at Md's and eventually was hred by the bank.Afetrs year she was promoted to management.

    She works for that ,she provides her own health care.They live in a very nice home in a nice gated community .Why should someone thet doesn't finish school ,doesn't show up for work,and so have the same as she does.We need to teach our kids as I have taught mine that the ones that work hard finish school should be the ones that profit.Everyone is NOT equal.They start that way but those that work hard SHOULD have more.

    When I took management years ago of a company in CA. one of the attitudes was well we get paid by the hour.Not everyone deserves the same pay.So I put everyone inc.myself on strictly commision.That way I didn't here things like ,..Its lunch time I can't help that customer......They guys that loved their hourly fell by the wayside and didn't have jobs.The ones that performed made a butt load of money .For example I had a car painter on commision that avaraged 120,000 per year.The hourly guys before they were removed would bithch that it wasn't fair.But they never showed up early,stayed late or anything ,Thats the way we should be those that perform except those that truly are disabled should always have the most.

    Back to my kid.She said why should I pay more in taxes for someone elses healthcare when I earned the money and want to buy a new jetski... anyone advancing any form of socialism is an enemy of the US and the Constitution and should be dealt with accordingly.


    I am sick of people thinking they have the right to things especially other peoples things or money simply because they exist.Needs to be earned.

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    As scary is as this will sound i agree with Boo Boo, We are the most powerful nation on this planet and we as americans deserve better health care and not have to sacrifice a roof over our heads todo it.


    IF you believe in the capitalist way of doing things fine but remember they make there money off the backs off the poor and means you jim and me and bill and just about everyone else on this forum.

    How can you defend a system that dosnt work???? Ask anyone who has served in the military. Crappy housing crappy pay and crappy health care. Now go look at a LEO's house his pay and his benifits.

    They do half the work of someone deployed in a combat zone and get way better pay. Ya know it pisses me off that an officer get killed in an ambush and yes its sad and everyone is up in arms about it yet 8 people in Afganistan who are ordered to be there die in an ambush and i dont see people getting up in arms.

    So i have no simpathy for the rich who wine because they dont have as much as they want, or the professional athletes who cry because they only made 4 million dollars last year off there nike endorcement.

    And I didnt allow all the illegal's into my county but they get better health care than i do, they get alot of things handed to them that we as americans dont.

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    DEROS72 wrote:
    Pecisely Commadore.For example My daughter works her ass off as a Bank manager.She Finished scool with high marks started at Md's and eventually was hred by the bank.Afetrs year she was promoted to management.

    She works for that ,she provides her own health care.They live in a very nice home in a nice gated community .Why should someone thet doesn't finish school ,doesn't show up for work,and so have the same as she does.We need to teach our kids as I have taught mine that the ones that work hard finish school should be the ones that profit.Everyone is NOT equal.They start that way but those that work hard SHOULD have more.

    When I took management years ago of a company in CA. one of the attitudes was well we get paid by the hour.Not everyone deserves the same pay.So I put everyone inc.myself on strictly commision.That way I didn't here things like ,..Its lunch time I can't help that customer......They guys that loved their hourly fell by the wayside and didn't have jobs.The ones that performed made a butt load of money .For example I had a car painter on commision that avaraged 120,000 per year.The hourly guys before they were removed would bithch that it wasn't fair.But they never showed up early,stayed late or anything ,Thats the way we should be those that perform except those that truly are disabled should always have the most.

    Back to my kid.She said why should I pay more in taxes for someone elses healthcare when I earned the money and want to buy a new jetski... anyone advancing any form of socialism is an enemy of the US and the Constitution and should be dealt with accordingly.


    I am sick of people thinking they have the right to things especially other peoples things or money simply because they exist.Needs to be earned.
    Aren't you on VA insurance? Isn't that paid for by the taxpayers? If you claim "you served your country, they should pay you back," isn't that the same claim that those who work for companies make? If your service were equivalent in years, why is it worth more, on the capitalist market, than another's service?
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    I am on VA but I earned . I went to war for this country as you did.That alone is earning it.I have also worked straight for 38 years paid taxes etc and get a pension from that as well ..I earned it.Those who make more money in their working life should get more than those who made less.We need to reward those who work or suceed as opoosed to paying out to those that don't.



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    DEROS72 wrote:
    I am on VA but I earned . I went to war for this country as you did.That alone is earning it.I have also worked straight for 38 years paid taxes etc and get a pension from that as well ..I earned it.Those who make more money in their working life should get more than those who made less.We need to reward those who work or suceed as opoosed to paying out to those that don't.
    You make it sound like if you work hard you will automaticlly be sucessful, thats not the case in this day in age, I served 8 years in the Corps and i got tore up in the process because my country told me this is what i need to do and i did it. 8 long years i was shot blown up damn near was made a POW yet i dont think anyone owes me a damn thing.

    Statisticly Nam Vets think there war was worse than mine, They think that they deserve more for whatever reason if you do not believe me go talk to people at the VA sometime.

    You of all people Should realize that once appon a time yes you made good money and you were all about getting yours. Hows that working out for you now? The VA treats most vets like crap like its a bother to them to do there jobs but here we sit thankful for whatever scraps we get........

    So if you want to lecture people about what is correct and what is not then why dont u take your happy gimp butt down to the VA Admin building and make them explain to you why you dont get better care?

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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    Didn't say that Vets get great care .Its in fact a perfect example of how a national health care plan will go.Thay had me on an iinferior heart med because of cost which led to my last heart attack.They won't do a surgery on my knee because it isn't cost effctive.Thats what this health care plan will be like. I don't think that vets get the best care.They should.Vets should always recieve more than the the general public.Nam vets also don't think our war was any harder.Just different.

    People that serve and people that work hard etc always deserve more than those that don't.No one has the right to take from the wealthy .I had that in my Comapany.Guys always complaining that the other guy makes more.People should quit worring about what someone else has .You have the right to be wealthy as well as long as you earn it. As for Military service you have also the right to the benifits thereof because you did serve.Morerso than anyone else.

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    so if your daughter looses her job , say her bank gets bought out, and for some reason she gets hurt.

    if she can't pay for it she shouldn't get it?

    according to you no!

    and alot of people fought for this country. my grandpa did in ww2 and retired after working to get his retirement. but it didnt matter he didnt get no free health care from the va when he got sick before he died.

    -------------

    you should never be afraid to go to the doctor if you are sick. and wonder if going to the emergency will bankrupt your family.

    --------------

    I do not think anyone here illegally should get anything. to me they are foreign terrorists and should be shot when they try and come across the border as terrorists.

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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    We agree on one thing Boo Boo I believe Illegals should be treated as a hostle invading Army and dispatched with extreme predudice.

    My daughter doesn't have the right to someone elses money either.

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    EXACTLY BooBoo ECACTLY

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    DEROS72 wrote:
    I am on VA but I earned . I went to war for this country as you did.That alone is earning it.I have also worked straight for 38 years paid taxes etc and get a pension from that as well ..I earned it.Those who make more money in their working life should get more than those who made less.We need to reward those who work or suceed as opoosed to paying out to those that don't.

    I'm really just playing devil's advocate here (see my posts on www.commonsensethoughtcontrol.com for my thoughts on the legality and/or idea of federal health care).

    You're stating that your service is intrinsically more valuable, monetarily, than that of a person who works in a job. The fact is, you took a job for a certain amount of compensation, why do you think you should receive lifetime compensation for a limited-time job, when others receive only a few months coverage they must pay for once they no longer work? Going to war or not, you agreed to and did a job, why does that particular job warrant a lifetime of coverage where no other job does?

    That said, providing a public option does nothing to prevent those who work or succeed from being "rewarded." They can pay for private practitioners, obtain private insurance, etc. Providing a public option does nothing to limit that freedom.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Boo Boo wrote:
    SNIP you should never be afraid to go to the doctor if you are sick. and wonder if going to the emergency will bankrupt your family.
    BooBoo,

    I'm not sure I understand where you got the idea that a doctor owes anyone his services.

    At any price other than what he wants.

    Or, why, just because a technology exists, that suddenly every single person deserves the highest service possible bought and paid for by others.

    When did the world change to where everyone is owed medical service paid for by the labor of others? Who decided that economic conditions were so well advanced? That medical services were so cheap? When did this occur?

    Who set themselves up as king to decide what medical services an insurance company must cover? What coverage they must offer?

    I was reading recently from a doctor, cannot recall where, that before all thegovernment meddling in health insurance, charity used to work quite well.

    Property rights are property rights. And before redistribution can happen, confiscation must occur.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    A doctor takes an oath to help, for instance i am a combat medic, Do i get the right to drive by a car wreck were people need medical attention? the law says NO the law says i have to stop and lend aid when possible.

    for instance u can walk into any hospital and get seen by a doctor despite your ability to pay. Yet go to a Dentists office and try that. You wont get past the receptionists desk before u get thrown out and laughed at.

    The cure for fixing this health care issue it kick all the illegals out of here cut them off and re coop all the money that is spent back into medical care programs.

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