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Thread: "BLUE CARD" letter to Clark County Com.

  1. #1
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    DearElected Officials,

    Last JuneI had a run in with the Nevada Highway Patrol, I spent an hour on the side of the road and my Rights were violated repeatedly. Since 6/15/2009 I have become an awake citizen, in addition to being a single father and small business owner. Of all the things that I was potentially accused of, let me stress that not one charge was brought against me, the biggest problem during my stop, was the fact that I did not have my firearm registration with me while carrying my firearm. There is absolutely no requirement to carry your "blue card " period. Metro had this pointed out to them in 2007 and reluctantly changed there website to acknowledge the fact. however thistreatment of the citizens has not stopped, and from the situations described in the chat rooms, this threatening behavior is not only being supported, it is being trained.
    I brought this problem up at theSheriff's and Chiefs meeting on concealed carry, when the words registration were uttered, I was cut off and my statement discounted as not relevant. To be frankI take my firearm responsibility's very serious, and to carry the kind of information that is documented on he blue cardon my person, is ridicules.I believe that Clark County needs to take aCloser look at thisgun registration as it is being used against the citizens, and not for them.
    What do we think we are accomplishing, by keeping track of law abiding citizens? this registration scheme does nothing to prevent crime, gun registration does not coincide with the majority of laws in the United States, Or for that matter the rest of our state. our Constitution calls for all to be treated equal, yet if I were in another city in this state, this behavior would have never come about. How is that equal treatment? When the Legislature returns to session I will be looking for a bill to rid our County of these Gestapo tactics.
    Thank you for your time, Sincerely,
    Now the response,










    Dear Mr. xxxxxxx,



    My name is Sergeant Chuck Callaway, and I work with Metro’s Office of Intergovernmental Services. I was asked to reply to your concerns regarding law enforcement and gun registration. You are correct that the law does not require you to carry your “blue card” with you. The “blue card” can be helpful to an officer in the field to expedite verification that a firearm is registered. Clark County is currently the only county in the State where registration of handguns is required. Clark County also has the majority of the population and crime. The Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department believes that handgun registration is a valuable tool which helps us recover stolen guns, return found and recovered guns to their rightful owners, keep guns out of the hands of convicted persons, and solve crimes.

    As you know, the topic of handgun registration and firearms in general is a hot topic of debate that could be discussed for hours on many levels. In regards to your unfortunate encounter with Highway Patrol, if you feel you were wrongly detained, I would suggest contacting their Internal Affairs Division to file a complaint.

    From the content of your E-mail, it sounds like you are a very engaged citizen that understands the process to change the things in our community that you feel are wrong. I would encourage you to lobby your elected officials in regards to these matters. If there are any specific issues related to Metro that I can assist you with please don’t hesitate to contact me.

    Best of luck,
    Chuck

    Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department
    Office of Intergovernmental Services
    Lt. Tom Roberts, Director
    (702) 828-5538 Phone
    (702) 828-1565 Fax



    My return letter,



    Dear Chuck Calloway, and Elected Officials,

    I did attempt to Contact you and have received no response as of yet. I will however take your advice on contacting my Elected Officials, and havecopied them in this letter.

    Yoursuggestion to contact Internal affairs seems positive on the surface, however I have been assured by the Internal affairs Dept. that threatening a citizen with jail,is is not against the law, and 100% acceptable for an officer to lie, if they feel it helps the investigation,

    Chuck brought up some instances where he believes a "blue card" might be helpful, however other cities such as Phoenix, Salt Lake City, do not have any worse results in recovering guns etc. than we do Yet more importantly, not one citizen in those citiesis ever threatened to go to jail, because thedo not provideGun registration,

    If chuck did want to continue correspondence in this Manner I would like to see his responses posted to the citizens who have endured this police persecution, only to be released. Such as the 29 year old Mother with her six year old daughter at the Town Square mall. even though this incident happened 4 moths ago the daughter is still drawing pictures of"BAD" policeman and having nightmares. Or the out of town business man threatened in the same manner, and had his firearm confiscated because he did not have his "blue card" I ask you what are the benefits, that out weigh this reaction? and why does Metro allow,encourage, and trainthis behavior?

    To be fair I called Chucks office and let them know that I wanted to give them a chance to respondand justifytheir horrific actions. before Iasked people write in and expose them and their tactics, however they apparently do not see this as a problem. as there has been no response.

    This registration is complied with voluntarily by themajority of the citizens in Clark County, myself included. I never questioned the registration until I realized that my own compliance with the law was being used against me, and many others. That issue is one that Chuck did not address,WhileI personally believe that registration is cost prohibitive both in rights and monetarily, I believe it is time for our county to look into the perceived benefits that Chuck outlined and justify the expense, financially and personally that is being paid on a daily basis.

    Sincerely, xxxxx xxxxxxx

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    DON`T TREAD ON ME wrote:

    Or the out of town business man threatened in the same manner, and had his firearm confiscated because he did not have his "blue card" *
    Is that me? Sweet...im getting used as an example of police misconduct.

    The letters good, though I would run it through a word check next time before you send it. That and some capitalization issues. You wouldn't want people to focus on bad grammar and poor punctuation when you're making valid points.

    On a side note, as a person familiar with the politics of government, one person complaining to a politician rarely gets any change moving. One person complaining to a television camera (or in the press) tend to illicit a more fervored response.

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    The police rationale is weird - new residents and visitors are exempt from he registration law duirng the grace period - so what would they do to them?

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    I am sorry about the grammer .. andI do not want to misrepresent our cause, however I get a little better every timm (notice the paragraphs) if some one wants to help with lessons, I will take them. But I wont let my faults stand in the way of Justice. just sayin

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    DON`T TREAD ON ME wrote:
    Dear Mr. xxxxxxx,

    My name is Sergeant Chuck Callaway, and I work with Metro’s Office of Intergovernmental Services. I was asked to reply to your concerns regarding law enforcement and gun registration. You are correct that the law does not require you to carry your “blue card” with you. The “blue card” can be helpful to an officer in the field to expedite verification that a firearm is registered. Clark County is currently the only county in the State where registration of handguns is required. Clark County also has the majority of the population and crime. The Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department believes that handgun registration is a valuable tool which helps us recover stolen guns, return found and recovered guns to their rightful owners, keep guns out of the hands of convicted persons, and solve crimes.

    As you know, the topic of handgun registration and firearms in general is a hot topic of debate that could be discussed for hours on many levels. In regards to your unfortunate encounter with Highway Patrol, if you feel you were wrongly detained, I would suggest contacting their Internal Affairs Division to file a complaint.

    From the content of your E-mail, it sounds like you are a very engaged citizen that understands the process to change the things in our community that you feel are wrong. I would encourage you to lobby your elected officials in regards to these matters. If there are any specific issues related to Metro that I can assist you with please don’t hesitate to contact me.

    Best of luck,
    Chuck

    Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department
    Office of Intergovernmental Services
    Lt. Tom Roberts, Director
    (702) 828-5538 Phone
    (702) 828-1565 Fax
    Very interesting response. It made me chuckle a little. Their rationale for wanting the registration is:

    1. helps us recover stolen guns

    If my gun is stolen and I file a police report, I will list the serial number of the stolen weapon. Same as my laptop. If it's stolen, I'll list the serial number. Anyone with anything of value should record serial numbers if worried about theft (and reasonably believes the police will recover your stolen property.)

    Metro, how many stolen guns have been recovered in the last 5 years? How many of those relied upon data from the registration database (exempting any data that the owner included in his report)?

    2. (helps us) return found and recovered guns to their rightful owners

    Since we've already addressed theft, I assume this is merely misplaced guns?

    Metro, how many guns are reported "lost" in the last 5 years. How many of those were later recovered by Metro? How many of those relied upon data from the registration database (exempting any data that the owner included in his report)?

    3. (helps us) keep guns out of the hands of convicted persons

    I'm sorry, I thought this was the point of the NICS check at the point of sale? If registering my firearm, which is free, does the same thing as the NICS check, how about you do me a civic favor and let me buy my next gun without the $25 NICS fee?

    4. (helps us) solve crimes

    This sounds good. I like the idea of bad guys in jail.

    How many crimes have been solved with the use of the registration database? How many of those were the "crime" of not registering a firearm? What was cost to the public? How many complaints has the department received about mistreatment by officers related to the blue card? How many weapons have been seized from their rightful owners because they were not registered? How many mistakes have been made, whether clerically or procedurally, related to any aspect of the registration and data access, including input, research, confiscation, or interrogation of the public?

    Limiting the question to just firearms, how does our crime rate compare to Reno? Phoenix? Salt Lake City? How about the arrest rate of those crimes? Conviction rate?

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    I sent a note too.

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    I have an idea. After you've sent your letter to the county commissioners, print them out and let's all meet up at the next county commissioner meeting to read them. There is time for public comment at the end, and I think it would be a useful reminder to them that we will not send our emails and forget about this issue. The next meeting is next Tuesday (1st and 3rd Tuesday of every month) at 9:15am.

    It probably wouldn't be useful to show up earlier than say 1pm, or possibly even later, since the meetings are usually 4-5 hours and public comment is held to the end.



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    timf343 wrote:
    DON`T TREAD ON ME wrote:
    Dear Mr. xxxxxxx,

    My name is Sergeant Chuck Callaway, and I work with Metro’s Office of Intergovernmental Services. I was asked to reply to your concerns regarding law enforcement and gun registration. You are correct that the law does not require you to carry your “blue card” with you. The “blue card” can be helpful to an officer in the field to expedite verification that a firearm is registered. Clark County is currently the only county in the State where registration of handguns is required. Clark County also has the majority of the population and crime. The Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department believes that handgun registration is a valuable tool which helps us recover stolen guns, return found and recovered guns to their rightful owners, keep guns out of the hands of convicted persons, and solve crimes.

    As you know, the topic of handgun registration and firearms in general is a hot topic of debate that could be discussed for hours on many levels. In regards to your unfortunate encounter with Highway Patrol, if you feel you were wrongly detained, I would suggest contacting their Internal Affairs Division to file a complaint.

    From the content of your E-mail, it sounds like you are a very engaged citizen that understands the process to change the things in our community that you feel are wrong. I would encourage you to lobby your elected officials in regards to these matters. If there are any specific issues related to Metro that I can assist you with please don’t hesitate to contact me.

    Best of luck,
    Chuck

    Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department
    Office of Intergovernmental Services
    Lt. Tom Roberts, Director
    (702) 828-5538 Phone
    (702) 828-1565 Fax
    Very interesting response. It made me chuckle a little. Their rationale for wanting the registration is:

    1. helps us recover stolen guns

    If my gun is stolen and I file a police report, I will list the serial number of the stolen weapon. Same as my laptop. If it's stolen, I'll list the serial number. Anyone with anything of value should record serial numbers if worried about theft (and reasonably believes the police will recover your stolen property.)

    Metro, how many stolen guns have been recovered in the last 5 years? How many of those relied upon data from the registration database (exempting any data that the owner included in his report)?

    2. (helps us) return found and recovered guns to their rightful owners

    Since we've already addressed theft, I assume this is merely misplaced guns?

    Metro, how many guns are reported "lost" in the last 5 years. How many of those were later recovered by Metro? How many of those relied upon data from the registration database (exempting any data that the owner included in his report)?

    3. (helps us) keep guns out of the hands of convicted persons

    I'm sorry, I thought this was the point of the NICS check at the point of sale? If registering my firearm, which is free, does the same thing as the NICS check, how about you do me a civic favor and let me buy my next gun without the $25 NICS fee?

    4. (helps us) solve crimes

    This sounds good. I like the idea of bad guys in jail.

    How many crimes have been solved with the use of the registration database? How many of those were the "crime" of not registering a firearm? What was cost to the public? How many complaints has the department received about mistreatment by officers related to the blue card? How many weapons have been seized from their rightful owners because they were not registered? How many mistakes have been made, whether clerically or procedurally, related to any aspect of the registration and data access, including input, research, confiscation, or interrogation of the public?

    Limiting the question to just firearms, how does our crime rate compare to Reno? Phoenix? Salt Lake City? How about the arrest rate of those crimes? Conviction rate?

    For 1 and 2, unfortunately many people don't report when their guns are stolen. I don't have the numbers, but some people don't feel the need to file a police report, even when a gun is missing or stolen.

    For 3, as much as you may disagree with it, it does help with that, as any handgun sold in a private party deal must be registered. Part of the registration is having the serial number run to ensure it is not a stolen gun as well as making sure the new owner is eligible to own a gun. There have been instances where a person is found to be ineligible (felon or batt dv conviction) or the gun is found to be a stolen gun.


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    joeschmo wrote:
    For 1 and 2, unfortunately many people don't report when their guns are stolen. I don't have the numbers, but some people don't feel the need to file a police report, even when a gun is missing or stolen.

    For 3, as much as you may disagree with it, it does help with that, as any handgun sold in a private party deal must be registered. Part of the registration is having the serial number run to ensure it is not a stolen gun as well as making sure the new owner is eligible to own a gun. There have been instances where a person is found to be ineligible (felon or batt dv conviction) or the gun is found to be a stolen gun.
    Not exactly what I meant. When a gun is sold via private party the seller is not obligated make sure the pistol is registered. For example, let's say I sell it to a guy in Pahrump. Or a guy in Pahrump sells to a guy in Vegas who comes to Pahrump to pick it up?

    Plus, there is no state law requiring registration, and CC Municipal Codes 12.04.110 and 12.04.200 do not require the seller to ensure the pistol is registered by the new owner. County code 12.04.210 requires the transferor to "cause" to be registered by the new owner, but it is voided by preemption. Only 12.04.110 and 12.04.200 are allowed by NRS 244.364, so whatever 12.04.210 says is irrelevant.

    Even if you disagree on 12.04.210, it's still very easy for a "prohibited" person to get access to a weapon through a perfectly legal sale just outside the county line.

    And that's really my point - it is not effective at stopping prohibited persons from buying guns, so why burden everyone else with it?

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    Mike wrote:
    The police rationale is weird - new residents and visitors are exempt from he registration law duirng the grace period - so what would they do to them?
    Based on Prophet's experience they threaten arrest and confiscate your firearm. Possibly in the hopes that as an out of town businessman you will be unable to remain in Vegas long enought to jump through the proper hoops to get your firearm back.

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    joeschmoe wrote,

    For 3, as much as you may disagree with it, it does help with that, as any handgun sold in a private party deal must be registered. Part of the registration is having the serial number run to ensure it is not a stolen gun as well as making sure the new owner is eligible to own a gun. There have been instances where a person is found to be ineligible (felon or batt dv conviction) or the gun is found to be a stolen gun.

    tread responds,


    That probably does happen sometimes,most likelyrare, as felons would noteagerly participate. I have never had a felony, but I assume you are fairly aware of the consequence's if you do. At the sheriffs and Chiefs meeting there were several people challenging the status of there "conviction" from 20 + years ago. so it would appear that the people coming to the station would more than likely have a discrepancy than anything.


    As for the gun, I attempted to purchase a private party revolver a couple years ago, it was a Ruger Redhawk .357 and it was a Bicentennial edition made in 1976. the price was fair for a .357, but a little to low for that gun in my opinion, so a red flag went up. Wanting to do the right thing I calledMetro and asked if they could run the #'s for meas I had no idea where that firearm had been.The response was "go ahead and buy it, and if it is stolen you will find out when you come to register it". I asked what was the best, and worst scenario, and was told " if you answer all the questions right, wemight just keep the gun, if not we will take you to jail on the spot.

    I did not buy the gun. I believe that it was sold to someone that had no plans of registering.Unless metro opens up thedata base to PROMOTE legal ownership instead of using it against the citizens that are abiding by the law. It will work against the law abiding and not for us. Metro is creating a divide with this practice, I sent a comment card that was available at the substation to the Sheriff, but no response.
    Note:
    The law did notcatch O.J.'s thugs even thug's even though they had records.

    I doubt that the D.A. even presses the registration as they would have to prove that you had the firearm more than 72 hrs.


    edited for punctuation

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    DON`T TREAD ON ME wrote:
    joeschmoe wrote,
    Note:
    The law did notcatch O.J.'s thugs even thug's even though they had records.

    I doubt that the D.A. even presses the registration as they would have to prove that you had the firearm more than 72 hrs.


    edited for punctuation
    Didn't they stay more than 72 hours during and after the trial?
    Can't find anything with a police custody exemption.

    Perhaps if we inquire about the officers blue card? When he comes back with
    the usual irate "I don't need one" you agree and point out you don't either.

    The best way to challenge the stupidity, is when they take the registered gun,
    you then write Chuck, and have him check into when the stolen gun is do to
    be returned, after all that is why they want the registration.

    I just hope at least one of my old dives is still there. They tore down a lot of
    casinos in the last couple decades.



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    timf343 wrote:
    How many crimes have been solved with the use of the registration database? How many of those were the "crime" of not registering a firearm? What was cost to the public? How many complaints has the department received about mistreatment by officers related to the blue card? How many weapons have been seized from their rightful owners because they were not registered? How many mistakes have been made, whether clerically or procedurally, related to any aspect of the registration and data access, including input, research, confiscation, or interrogation of the public?
    Questionsof this type were asked of the Nevada Sheriffs & Chiefs Ass'n lobbyists in the 2007 legislative session.

    The NSCA lobbyists HAD NO ANSWERS. They simply continued to snivel and whine that registration is a crime fighting tool - even though they had ZERO evidence to back it up.

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    SlackwareRobert wrote:
    I just hope at least one of my old dives is still there. They tore down a lot of
    casinos in the last couple decades.
    What's your old dive?

    The Klondike on LVBS is gone - I think there is a Klondike in Henderson on Sunset/Boulder but I think that's closed too.

    The Western is still around (E Fremont) but the Westward Ho is gone.

    Slots-a-Fun is still in operation, but the Frontier has disappeared.

    And sadly, the Stardust is gone (no this wasn't a dive IMO), and in it's place now sits the defunct Echelon project.

    The El Cortez has gotten a face lift, but the Nevada Palace is gone, replaced by a new highrise called Cannery.

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    Used to drop $20 at the Gold Coast, (best chinese food there for a mexican motif)
    then go play craps on the strip at (nobb hill?) next door to the holiday int.
    Or way over nevada palace, I liked you could play multiple hands on blackjack table.
    Castaways folded. Is stupecs vegas world still there? It was a dump that I went in once,
    and never again without a gun.
    Paddle wheel gone, but I'm looking forward to the roller coaster on top of the stratus.

    How is the boon dongle of a bridge down at the damn, I'll probably take my son down
    there for the tour, and take a gander at government stupidity/corruption at 'work'.
    I lived back behind the showboat, never had any luck there so didn't play often.
    Would bowl there once in a while if I ran out of chips for the month.:?

    I prefer gambling alone as one in a party is always loosing, just hope as a couple
    it works differently.
    Very rusty on my craps after all these decades, went to an indian casino but it isn't
    the same thing...





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    Gold Coast and Strat (on the land where Vegas World sat) are the only two places you mentioned that are still around. Way to keep your post on topic with the gun comment! The Stratosphere is also the place where I was walking the night I was stopped by LVMPD for OC on the strip. I'm afraid the coaster at the top of Strat no longer runs. It's been replaced by three other thrill rides though some of the track still remains.. The NV Palace was a favorite dive of mine till they ripped it out and put in the Cannery. Completely different vibe, and not the least bit fun anymore.

    Not only did Castaways fold, they tore it down. Rumor has it the guys who own Station Casinos - the Fertittas - own that land now, and they were going to build "Fremont Station". I guess the current economy has them thinking otherwise.

    Even with a lot of other major changes at the place, good craps can still be found at Binions. And the Golden Gate is still a good place to go practice for cheap.

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    I'm watching this thread now, but hope you guys get a room (take it to PM) so we can all just get notified of relevant updates. TKS

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    Sorry, but has anyone OC'd across hoover dam yet? I know they won't let me into it
    probably, but as it is an interstate and both sides are legal and I haven't walked over a state line or time zone yet while carrying I can just stroll back and forth waiting
    for the tour to get back. Only an hours walk this time of year.

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    I have been in contact with Hoover Dam police and crossed it many times on my Harley While OC, had a couple of short conversations with the checkpoint guards. after they noticed :what:all they say is keep it between the lines and off the Natl. rec area. now that part is subject to change in feb with the Natl. park law..... but will they then state dept. of Reclamation status? who knows, I for one would not walk on the side walk OCing down there, from my limited knowledge. They can mistake a tourist fora terrorist.I am more comfortable with the strip.

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    Just have never strolled over a state line or time zone yet. Motorcycling is out
    as I will be driving car, and no trailer.
    If it wasn't so far out of the way, I would swing up to four corners and carry
    in 4 states at once for a real novelty.

    The definition of highway right of way must be one of the biggest hidden laws
    on the books when dealing with state lines, bridges, and ramps.
    Are you saying they have checkpoint 'J Edger' on a public right of way?
    Was thinking I might "break down" and walk back to a phone. i.e. legit reason
    for walking on interstate. Of course having the camera for Citizen Safety
    just makes it worse with the federalies, OMG! he has a camera!

    I hate i'll be a couple months short of new regs. Would love to carry at bottom
    of carlsbad. White sands is to gritty for OC anyways. Just have to fight the
    temptation to bring my black powder pistol to OC at the alamo, curse texas
    taking so long to get with the program. No holster sure helps resisting though.

    Only blue card headache might be UNLV still considers me an instate resident.
    And you know how state agencies like to colaborate to shaft the little guy.
    But I will not be leaving a paper trail for them, just need to worry about the
    casino camera timestamps I guess. Curse those pesky mask laws, or do
    constitutional right against self incrimination trump can't wear mask with gun law.
    I am not wearing a mask to conseal my identity, I am wearing it to keep my
    self-incriminating mug from convicting me.


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    Sign the petition to repeal gun registration in Clark County, NV

    http://www.petitiononline.com/1204110r/petition.html

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    Bump

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    only 17 signatures on petition? WEAK!

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    i was going to sign it. but i dont live in clark county. sorry.

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    ronlday wrote:
    i was going to sign it. but i dont live in clark county. sorry.
    Same.

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