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Thread: Anybody know the deal w/ Coronado Nat'l Monument?

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    Regular Member mFonz77's Avatar
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    I went out there to hike this morning, and looks to me like there are two separate "jurisdictions," if you will. I was doing the Miller Peak trail, specifically.

    Looked the like the trailhead is located in a National Park, the Coronado Nat'l Memorial. But, 2 miles in, there is a signpost saying "Welcome to Miller Peak Wilderness - Coronado National Forest."

    It is my understanding that carry in National Parks is generally prohibited but that carry in National Forests is generally allowed.

    Can anyone shed any light on this specific trail, and/or share any experiences carrying there?

    I've got to say, leading up to the trailhead were signs stating "Illegal entry and/or smuggling is common in this area due to the proximity to the international border. Please stay aware of your surroundings."

    There were also signs near the trailhead warning of bears and other wildlife.

    So I now pose the obvious question: How can the Nat. Parks provide all this info of deadly "fun" in the area, yet right next to those signs place signs prohibiting firearms?
    My location says I am from Sierra Vista, AZ which is where I live now but I actually lived in MO for 26 years! So please stop telling me I don't know what I'm talking about when I post in the Missouri forum!

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    mFonz77 wrote:
    How can the Nat. Parks provide all this info of deadly "fun" in the area, yet right next to those signs place signs prohibiting firearms?
    Welcome to the USA =)

    Joking aside, my understanding is the same as yours... National parks = no no, Forests, fair game. Monuments of course fall into the park category as well.

    I have personally been avoiding hiking anything that qualifies as a park until February when the CCW permit actually becomes valid. After that it won't matter what the sign says. =)

    Looking at the entry on Hikearizona.com for Miller Peak via Crest Trail, just the mere mention of being under NPS jurisdiction would be enough to either make me skip that hike til next year, or consider 'alternatives.' I flat out won't even touch an area that close to the border without being armed and shot down a potential trip with some friends into the Chiricuahua area because carry is still prohibited there.

    http://www.hikearizona.com/decoder.php?ZTN=78

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    Regular Member TOF's Avatar
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    We have more than enough trails in the National Forests within Arizona that it is not necessary to put up with the NPS BS just to go on a nice hike. Besides they generaly charge for anything worth doing or seeing.

    That said, if I go into that country I will be armed.


    If you woke up breathing, congratulations! You get another chance.

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    Didn't a fed law pass this last year that allows carry into NPS lands? Whats the skinny on that one?

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    AZ Patriot wrote:
    Didn't a fed law pass this last year that allows carry into NPS lands? Whats the skinny on that one?
    If I recall correctly, it doesn't go into effect til February 22nd of 2010. When that time comes, anyone with a CCW permit will be allowed to carry (and must stay concealed) on NPS/National Monument lands. I for one am VERY much looking forward to that time =)

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    Thoreau wrote:
    AZ Patriot wrote:
    Didn't a fed law pass this last year that allows carry into NPS lands? Whats the skinny on that one?
    If I recall correctly, it doesn't go into effect til February 22nd of 2010.* When that time comes, anyone with a CCW permit will be allowed to carry (and must stay concealed) on NPS/National Monument lands.* I for one am VERY much looking forward to that time =)
    Ahh yes, I believe that it what i read a while back. Thanks!

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    mFonz77 wrote:
    I've got to say, leading up to the trailhead were signs stating "Illegal entry and/or smuggling is common in this area due to the proximity to the international border. Please stay aware of your surroundings."

    There were also signs near the trailhead warning of bears and other wildlife.

    So I now pose the obvious question: How can the Nat. Parks provide all this info of deadly "fun" in the area, yet right next to those signs place signs prohibiting firearms?
    Because the people who 'run' theNPS do so from offices In Washington DC with assorted fuzzythink influence from the myriad anti-gun groups while immersed inthe 'no-gun' culture of DC and MD.

    The web site for the Organ Pipe National Monument also cautions of illegal entry and smuggling. The 'supervisor'... or whatever she's called for this NP is a smokey bear hat wearin' dweeb by the name of Sarah Craighead who lives someplace in Oklahoma (not here).:X

    'Couple years back... there was some noise to close Picture Rocks Rd thru the park... but it's the primary avenue in ingress/egress to this area w/o goin' 30 miles out of the way to skirt it. Ennyhoo... she was at a community meeting (this isn't an incorporated town by any measure) confronted by a bunch of seriously irate residents (only 3 miles of Picture Rocks Rd is thru the Park... and it's a state road) who were outraged to say the least. Apparently... she was being fed flawed info from UofA 'analyists' (ha) who don't live here either who based their 'data' on those who don't travel the road (or could find it on a map). The road pre-dates statehood by 4 years (at least 'til it was named) and predates the Park incorporation in 1994 by 86 years. I think that qualifies for 'imminent domain'. http://www.srnr.arizona.edu/~gimblett/Picture_Rocks.pdf

    Total amateurish academic B.S.!!!

    My Zip Code doesn't even appear in the survey. The 'occupations' listed were laughable... no cowboys, construction workers, utilitiesmen, aircraft workers, electricians, mechanics, landscapers... or even retired. 'Sounds like she took her survey from surrounding UofA cubicles.

    Ennyhoo... before all this Bru-ha-ha aboutfirearms in NP's, I buttonholed her that Arizona was a 'carry' state by it's Constitution (AZC 2 sec. 26) since 1912. "Nobody, is going to unload, much less disassemble their firearm just to traverse or border the Park or ever has. With a 'lever rifle' or wheel gun, that'd be near impossible anyway. People have been carrying loaded guns thru that area before she (or I ) was born w/o incident. What's your position on that?" :shock:

    "It's aPima CountyRd... not an NPS one. We pay state and county taxes and I'll be damned if I (or anybody else)would pay atoll of any amount to some Fedgoon to traverse one."I also reminded her of what logistics wouldbe required to support a Ranger kiosk in the middle of nothing. (Temps sometimes go to 124 F in that area).Rangers don't work after 10PM anyway. (Then what?)

    http://www.saguaronationalpark.com/

    (The 'Park' perimeter begins about a half mile from casa mia.) Well... the look on her mug was 'deer in the headlights'.:what:'Never did get a straight answer... she was stammering 'n trying very hard to head for the door. I hollered:

    "This is Arizona; we'll thank you to remember that!"She blanched... 'n headed for the parking lot. Picture Rocks Road remains the same to date. We still carry guns thru the Park. Few people venture into the 'thorns' afoot anyway... 'n then not far into it. Horseback is another story... and I've seen saddle scabbards several times onthose crossing the road. It's just common sense.

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    Thoreau wrote:
    AZ Patriot wrote:
    Didn't a fed law pass this last year that allows carry into NPS lands? Whats the skinny on that one?
    If I recall correctly, it doesn't go into effect til February 22nd of 2010. When that time comes, anyone with a CCW permit will be allowed to carry (and must stay concealed) on NPS/National Monument lands. I for one am VERY much looking forward to that time =)
    State law applies. If OC is not denied by the state... then OC. Apparently one must have a CWP tho... which doesn't make sense... but the Fed government has long since failed to make sense. This NP carry law says that you can carry in accordance with State law in any National Park.

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    Thoreau wrote:
    AZ Patriot wrote:
    Didn't a fed law pass this last year that allows carry into NPS lands? Whats the skinny on that one?
    If I recall correctly, it doesn't go into effect til February 22nd of 2010.* When that time comes, anyone with a CCW permit will be allowed to carry (and must stay concealed) on NPS/National Monument lands.* I for one am VERY much looking forward to that time =)
    State law applies.* If OC is not denied by the state... then OC.* Apparently one must have a CWP tho... which doesn't make sense... but the Fed government has long since failed to make sense. This NP carry law says that you can carry in accordance with State law in any National Park.
    Interesting, I didn't know that. That would be convenient for me since I'd much rather carry a .40, .45, or 10mm in a Nat'l Park than my little single stack 9mm I usually conceal.

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    The original law only allowed concealed carry in NPS but a judge put an injunction a few weeks into that new law. Senator Coburn from OK attached an amendment to a bill that will take effect on Feb 22 next year that will allow open or concealed carry. The new law will copy the STATE law of where the NPS is located just like National Forests. It worked out better then the BS NRA concealed version originally introduced.

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    As of February 22nd the new law doesn't require a permit just compliance with state law!!!

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