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Thread: "Gun Free, Death Pay" by Nutnfancy

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    Regular Member swatspyder's Avatar
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    I like that dude, hes the reason I bought an SR9, my first handgun.

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    100% agreed. Made a reply vid.
    Quote Originally Posted by SayWhat View Post

    Shooters before hooters.

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    I posted a link to Nutnfancys Sheepdog Conceptin the General Discussion part and got 40 replies on it. Seems a few people just don't like the word Sheepdog and didn't even watch the video before posting about how they didn't like it.

    I think Nutnfancy makes great points in all of his videos. His gun and gear reviews are great and I like his overall attitude towards it all. He usually talks about concealed carry though,I don't think I've seen him talk much about open carry.

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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    Well I do agree with the sheepdog concept and I will have to go find this thread and watch the video. I do like Nutnfancy's other vids I've seen. He's not a huge fan of the 1911, but hey, nobody is perfect. :P

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    Regular Member killchain's Avatar
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    I love Nutnfancy. I just think he's a bit long-winded.
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stuart Mill

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    Regular Member Johnny Law's Avatar
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    This is how LE are taught the sheepdog concept, but I can seehow Nutnfancy can adapt it to citizens as well.This was written recently by an Officer that is currently attending a Police academy.




    As promised here is a midweek entry to the Academy Experience.

    There are some concepts about how the populations of the world function in relation to police and military situations that I think all prospective police officers should consider before entering the academy. I was aware of how law enforcement addresses these concepts, though not in the exact terms of the analogy to follow before I entered the academy due to my K-9 training experiences and the fact that I hung out with plenty of cops during that training. These concepts were presented to the cadets in the academy through a paper authored by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman of the United States Army. He presents the concept that there are three types of people in the world. There are Sheep, there are Sheepdogs and there are wolves. In this analogy the sheep represent the everyday citizen. They are nice, peaceful, honest, law abiding and go about their business each day. Lt Col. Grossman believes these people are naive and unaware about what is happening in their surroundings and how the world is functioning around them. I am not sure if I agree with Lt. Col. Grossman entirely on this concept. I believe the sheep in this world have at least an idea of how the world works around them but for whatever reason, don’t want to deal with the problems that a functioning society within the world creates.

    The wolves represent the criminals that routinely take advantage of the sheep. They prey on the sheep and use them for their benefit. The wolves can and usually are vicious or mean in some form; some are more vicious and ruthless than others. But all prey on the sheep in some method or form. Most sheep are scared of the wolves and truthfully do not know how to deal or stop the wolves’ actions. This is where the Sheepdogs enter the picture. The Sheepdogs represent the various law enforcement agencies around the world and all military personnel. These are the individuals that step forward, placing themselves between the sheep and the wolves; in other words, the Sheepdogs fight the Wolves and what the Wolves are attempting to do. The Sheepdogs are the saviors of various societies around the world.

    The sad part of this analogy is that in real life the Sheepdogs don’t really fit into society life. The wolves don’t like them because they are constantly fighting and stopping them from hurting the sheep. The sheep like to have the sheepdogs around because of the protection provided from the wolves. But the sheepdogs make many of the sheep nervous because they resemble the wolf. They have fangs, they growl and they fight when necessary. The Sheepdogs hide within the population of the sheep, waiting for the wolf to appear to hassle or hurt the sheep; or to challenge the Sheepdogs. Sheepdogs never look for a fight, but at the same time, will never run away from one either. Sheepdogs will handle any situation in an attempt to help the Sheep. The Sheepdogs are always willing to “Protect and Serve”. Whether the sheep know it or not, Sheep could not survive without the sheepdog. Most sheep realize this but there are many that do not. That’s acceptable, because the Sheepdog doesn’t care how the Sheep feel. Sheepdogs will be there and will do the job no matter what the situation. It is not fame or fortune that the sheepdog is after. It is to fill the need of the sheepdog to “Protect and Serve”. Some believe that sheepdogs are born and they just naturally step forward and accept the responsibility. I believe that to be true, but also feel that Sheepdogs can be created. An individual just has to make a conscious decision to become a Sheepdog. To become a Sheepdog, there must be a natural sequence of decisions and actions that must be taken. This process begins with the establishment and acceptance of integrity, honesty, trustworthiness, and respect.

    The point of this blog entry is not to promote or change anyone’s opinion of law enforcement or of the military. This entry is more about having all citizens think about whom they truly are. This entry represents an attempt to create an understanding about the role of those that protect and serve societies all over the world. For those of you contemplating becoming a police officer, please consider this analogy and the following paragraph seriously. I truly believe that the more one contemplates this analogy, contemplates who you are and what you represent to all those in your life, you will discover where you fit. The reality to consider is what are you really? A Sheep? A Sheepdog? Or a Wolf?
    If you have to fight, do not fear death. We will all die one day, so fight skillfully and bravely! And if it is to be that you die, then at least go to God proudly. Meet him as the proud warrior that you are, and not as a sniveling coward. Nobody lives forever.

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    Johnny Law wrote:
    SNIP...Lt. Col. Dave Grossman of the United States Army...presents the concept that there are three types of people in the world. There are Sheep, there are Sheepdogs and there are wolves.
    No offense to anybody. Particularly JohnnyLaw.

    But, I think Col. Grossman's analogy is a little incomplete.As long aspeople are being categorized, meaning that if we are going to work within the framework of categories (and all the opportunities for error that implies), then I believe there is afourth category being overlooked. I will introduce it by wayof a quote, often attributed to Ben Franklin, perhaps erroneously attributed:

    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."

    Count me as a well-armed lamb. I am not a sheep. I am not a wolf. And I am not a sheepdog. I do not set myself above others because I am armed. I derive no sense of self-importance because I am armed and have the capacity to defend others. If I help anyone who is under attack, it is not because I have a sheepdog attitude. I amnotlooking to protect others; but neither am Iunwilling toprotect others.

    I am just a guy going through life, able to defend myself. If the circumstances arise where someone else could be defended, I'll evaluate it and help or not. But, this is different from viewing myself as aprotector.

    I am just a well-armed lamb who can take care of himself instead of relying on the sheepdog.

    I can't help but wonder if a little less sheepdog attitude on the part of police might result in a little more respect for rights.

    Sincerely,

    W.A. Lamb

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member SpyderTattoo's Avatar
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    Funny, my last name is Lamb...
    Certified Glock Armorer

    "A government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen..." -- Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. App.181)

    A 1911 that works properly is as rare as a Glock that doesn't.

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    I like the concept but reading that blog entry kinda freeks me out. Not too long ago I was considering becoming a police officer, until I realized that there were too many wolves in their ranks. It just seems to me that a lot of officers put there fellows in blue before the needs of the people I think we see this with the officer that was murdered in the past few days god rest his soul. After he was killed there were so many police trying to track down the killer (200 officers?) which is a response we don't see for your everyday man whos been killed (could be the press just doesn't report it).

    I really wish I could meet more good decent officers who treat everyone with respect and don't treat me like a street criminal. I'm not saying there aren't good cops but here in Pullman the police treat me as a criminal until I prove otherwise. No disrespect to the good guys out there.

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    Regular Member killchain's Avatar
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    I did a Sociology project on the Sheepdog subculture now that we mention it.

    It was really cool. I mentioned OCDO in my report.
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stuart Mill

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:
    Johnny Law wrote:
    SNIP...Lt. Col. Dave Grossman of the United States Army...presents the concept that there are three types of people in the world. There are Sheep, there are Sheepdogs and there are wolves.*
    No offense to anybody.* Particularly JohnnyLaw.

    But, I think Col. Grossman's analogy is a little incomplete.**As long as*people are being categorized, meaning that if we are going to work within the framework of categories (and all the opportunities for error that implies), then I believe there is a*fourth category being overlooked.* I will introduce it by way*of a quote, often attributed to Ben Franklin, perhaps erroneously attributed:

    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.* Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."

    Count me as a well-armed lamb.* I am not a sheep.* I am not a wolf.* And I am not a sheepdog.* I do not set myself above others because I am armed.* I derive no sense of self-importance because I am armed and have the capacity to defend others.* If I help anyone who is under attack, it is not because I have a sheepdog attitude.* I am*not*looking to protect others; but neither am I*unwilling to*protect others.*

    I am just a guy going through life, able to defend myself.* If the circumstances arise where someone else could be defended, I'll evaluate it and help or not.* But, this is different from viewing myself as a*protector.*

    I am just a well-armed lamb who can take care of himself instead of relying on the sheepdog.

    I can't help but wonder if a little less sheepdog attitude on the part of police might result in a little more respect for rights.*

    Sincerely,

    W.A. Lamb*
    Once again, I agree completely.

    I'm going to post what I posted in the other thread, just because I can. :P

    That and because I find this vaguely important.

    marshaul wrote:
    [quote]Tomahawk wrote:
    paramedic70002 wrote:
    Virginiaplanter wrote:
    Now is the perfect time for the US to invade Switzerland and claim it as the 51st state. We get all their good chocolate and what are the Swiss going to do about it? They can't shoot us, and their Swiss army knives have wine bottle openers on them. That's the kind of "Army" knife you get from a country that doesn't fight in wars and is neutered, I mean Neutral.
    Neutrality has it's upside. I don't recall terrorists attacking the Swiss recently. There's nothing wrong with taking care of the home front and letting the rest of the world alone. When the USA was still wet behind the ears, Washington and Co. refused to assist various European powers in their petty squabbles. The USA was doing just fine until we decided to be a world player, it's been downhill ever since.
    I've never understood the mentality of someone who thinks that staying out of trouble and minding your own business makes you a coward.
    I agree.

    To be honest, I probably would do something to stop a horrible crime if I felt it was within my power.

    But, I really don't plan for such unlikely events. And, I avoid getting involved in other's business.

    At any rate, the analogy to neutrality is a good one, and it underlines my suggestion that this "sheepdog" mentality is a front for the statist/interventionist philosophy, which is fundamentally incompatible with liberty, I might add.

    There's nothing wrong with helping people, and there's nothing wrong with professions which entail helping people (actual security, public or private, fire, what have you), but this "we need to look out for the sheep" mentality is proto-statist to the max.

    I don't want to see people hurt if I can easily stop it, but I also don't want to play bodyguard to a bunch of free Americans who should be taking care of their own defense.

    Only nanny-tyrants think otherwise.

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    marshaul wrote:
    SNIP There's nothing wrong with helping people, and there's nothing wrong with professions which entail helping people (actual security, public or private, fire, what have you), but this "we need to look out for the sheep" mentality is proto-statist to the max.
    Agreed. And elitist.


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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