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Thread: So far so good {Wilson/Greeville} even with LEO's

  1. #1
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    I decided this week to start OC'ing on a more regular basis. So far I have been to two different Starbucks, Jimmy John's {sandwich place}, Lowe's, Harris Teeter, Piggly Wiggly in Pinetops and three Hess-Wilco stations; and probably few others that I have forgotten.

    I had one comment from the guy at Jimmy John's who asked if I was working in a bad neighborhood. I told him 12th and Pitt, and he said I would carry mine there too. And one college girl at the Starbuck's counter asked if it was a Hi Point.

    Other than that, it was just a couple of raised eyebrows here and there. I did notice that I see less of it when my daughter is with me for some reason, but like my thread title says ............ so far, so good.

    I did get stopped by a local LEO in Pinetops for a blown headlight. When he came to the window {I had the dome light on} and asked for my license, I told him that before I reached for my wallet I wanted to be sure he was aware that I had my handgun with me, and that it was out on the open on the seat like the law required. He asked me to put it on the dash, and then he reached in a picked it up. {I am not a big fan of that, but I think he was in the right to do it.} He went to his car and then came back and asked for my gun permit. I told him I currently do not have one, that is why I had it out in the open. He then told me that I was supposed to have a permit for vehicle carry but not to carry on my hip, but that he wasn't gong to write me up for it {don't flame the guy yet, keep reading} I told him that I must have gotten some misinformation during my CCW class, because the instructor was a LEO and he explained the difference between open and concealed to us during the class. He was gone a little too long and then came back with my weapon and license, and told me he wasn't going to write me up, just get the headlight fixed and drive safe, he did not mention the gun at all. As he turned to walk away and I said "Officer, can I ask you a question?" He turned back, and I asked what is the best way to handle a situation like this where I am open carrying, as far as notifying the officer of the presence of a weapon. He said I handled it exactly right by notifying him and having it out on the seat just like I was suppposed to so that I would not get in trouble on a concealed weapon charge.

    My guess is that he called in and got some information about the law, because his answer to my final question was a direct reversal of what he told me at the first encounter. Overall he was very polite and professional. BUT should I do an FOIA request to find out what was said? or should I leave it alone since Pinetops is such a tiny town and my wife owns a business next door to the PD, I don't want to rock the boat.



  2. #2
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    Good for you.

    I oc & cc depending on where I'm goning what I'll be doing ect.

    Only problem I've had so far was at aLowes home improvement store.

    I knew something was up when I saw 4 employees at the service desk looking & whispering. Funny thing is they sent the youngest of the group & a girl on top of that to ask me if I would please "cover up" my gun LOL. It was so funny I said sure no problem. But I make sure to open carry EVERY time I go back .

  3. #3
    Regular Member jerz_subbie's Avatar
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    Glad to hear of your rather positive experience.

    As for looking out for the best interest of your wife's business which is right next to the PD, I'd probably leave it alone.

    I'd say your assumption is probably spot on, that the officer was ignorant to OC laws, called someone for reference as he should have, and realized you've done nothing wrong. Thankfully he wasn't the type to get a damaged ego from you knowing the law better than him and in turn ticketing you for the headlight.

    I'd say we give that officer a B+ and you an A+ for handling the situation properly!

  4. #4
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    It sounds like you've had some good experiences.

    But you DEFINITELY want to be careful moving around in Greenville. ECU has property ALL over the city--Pit County Hospital complex has a lot of ECU property in it, and the university "proper" has about 1/3 of the city in it's defined property bouderies.

    And if you get pulled over and you just happen to be on "univeristy property", you are going to be in BIG TIME trouble. Get a good map, and plan your routes...

    I live in Washington NC, and I'm taking gradutate-level courses at ECU. I usually carry all the time, but when I go to classes, I usually just leave my Para at home, and keep an extra sharp eye out. Of course, I can legally carry a "Gerber multi-tool" because some of my classes require that I make adjustments or perform maintenance on mechanical equipment. Know the law...

    Just be careful. The Greenville police have a less than stellar reputation when it comes to traffic stops and firearms...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  5. #5
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    Dreamer;

    Does University property include the streets that pass by or just the internal streets? I will definitely look into getting a map. Do you know of a good source for one?

  6. #6
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Scrub,

    The tricky thing about "university property" is how you interpret it. NC does not have "gun free zones" designated by distance (like the 100ft or 500ft radius that some states have), only that you can't have guns "on school property"...

    So, if the University is resposible for maintaining a specific roadway, then it would be "university property". If the City of Greenville is responsible for maintaining a road, then it's City property, and would be legal. But if you get pulled over by a University cop on 5th in front of the main campus, you'd have a pretty tough sell, because to them, ANYONE in possession of a gun is suspect, and you'd be looking at at least a 30 minute stop, and possibly an (illegal) search of your car and your person, and most likely, you'd have all this happening while face down in the grass and while handcuffed...

    Determining who owns specific roads, and who has jurisdiction, and what the laws REALLY are would require a trip to Greenville City Hall, and a detailed study of the titles, deeds, and property maps in the City Archives. You can do it for free now, when you have spare time, or you could wait and let your lawyer do it for you for $100/hr after you get arrested by ECU Campus cops...

    To be honest, I rarely carry in Greenville. I'm a graduate student, so if I get caught "on campus" it is a LOT more serious than a non-student (the laws, penalties, and fines are more harsh for students). The only time I carry in Greenville is when I'm going somewhere else, and have to go around the city on the "loop", or if I'm going shopping or on my way to Winterville to check out the 2 really good gun stores down there. But even though I park "off campus" by several blocks while attending classes, I don't carry when I'm there as a student. First, I can't carryon campus, and second, there is NO WAY I'mgoing to leave a 4-digit custom 1911 unattended in my car in the residential part of a college town. Theft is the most common crime in Greenville, and vehicular B&E's are a daily occurrence...

    So if you avoid the main campus area of town, and don't go to Pitt Hospital, and don't park in campus parking lots, and don't walk on the sidewalks directly adjacent to campus property, you are "technically" within your legal rights. But you also run the risk of stumbling across an overzealous ECU campus police officer, and it has been my experience that while some of them are VERY polite, reasonable, and well-intentioned, they aren't particularly knowledgeable about NC statutes, ESPECIALLY those that are specifically regulating campus restrictions on "weapons"...

    Here's an example--if you were walking east-to-west on 5th, and were on sidewalk on the north side of the street (the sidewalk ACROSS the street from the main campus) you would TECHNICALLY be legal, most of the time. There ARE buildings and parking lots on that side of the street that are campus property, so you'd need to be REAL careful, ESPECIALLY if you were OCing...

    But if you were, for instance on the south side of town, and you were shopping at BigLots, or WalMart, or Barnes and Noble Bookstore, you would be OK no matter where you were, because there is no University property down in that part of town.

    But if you were out shopping with some friends, and one of your friends started to feel really sick and dizzy and get blurry vision, and you drove them to the Emergency Room at Pitt County Hospital, you'd have to technically park off the hospital property, because most of Pitt County is actually ECU University property, or has ECU training facilities on it, and therefore falls under the NC School Property ban. Even though the parking lot is NOT posted, you would TECHNICALLY be in violation if a cop wanted to get pissy about it. Under NC statutes, schools are NOT required to post their ban on firearms...

    NC laws are VERY convoluted. Do LOTS of research, and DON'T trust anything a police officer tells you if you are foolish enough to ask their opinion, that's my only advice.

    And as usual, I remind you that IANAL...

    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  7. #7
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    I've just been getting used to carrying my gun around my own property, I'd have to put on a serious set of testicles in order for me to walk off property. It'sfear of harm more so than being harrassed. I can handle being harrassed. I do understand that the vast majority of police officers are not trigger happy nut jobs but it's just taking that first leap that is the hardest.

  8. #8
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    Dreamer wrote:
    Scrub,

    The tricky thing about "university property" is how you interpret it. NC does not have "gun free zones" designated by distance (like the 100ft or 500ft radius that some states have), only that you can't have guns "on school property"...

    So, if the University is resposible for maintaining a specific roadway, then it would be "university property". If the City of Greenville is responsible for maintaining a road, then it's City property, and would be legal. But if you get pulled over by a University cop on 5th in front of the main campus, you'd have a pretty tough sell, because to them, ANYONE in possession of a gun is suspect, and you'd be looking at at least a 30 minute stop, and possibly an (illegal) search of your car and your person, and most likely, you'd have all this happening while face down in the grass and while handcuffed...

    ...snip...

    So if you avoid the main campus area of town, and don't go to Pitt Hospital, and don't park in campus parking lots, and don't walk on the sidewalks directly adjacent to campus property, you are "technically" within your legal rights. But you also run the risk of stumbling across an overzealous ECU campus police officer, and it has been my experience that while some of them are VERY polite, reasonable, and well-intentioned, they aren't particularly knowledgeable about NC statutes, ESPECIALLY those that are specifically regulating campus restrictions on "weapons"...

    Here's an example--if you were walking east-to-west on 5th, and were on sidewalk on the north side of the street (the sidewalk ACROSS the street from the main campus) you would TECHNICALLY be legal, most of the time. There ARE buildings and parking lots on that side of the street that are campus property, so you'd need to be REAL careful, ESPECIALLY if you were OCing...

    But if you were, for instance on the south side of town, and you were shopping at BigLots, or WalMart, or Barnes and Noble Bookstore, you would be OK no matter where you were, because there is no University property down in that part of town.

    But if you were out shopping with some friends, and one of your friends started to feel really sick and dizzy and get blurry vision, and you drove them to the Emergency Room at Pitt County Hospital, you'd have to technically park off the hospital property, because most of Pitt County is actually ECU University property, or has ECU training facilities on it, and therefore falls under the NC School Property ban. Even though the parking lot is NOT posted, you would TECHNICALLY be in violation if a cop wanted to get pissy about it. Under NC statutes, schools are NOT required to post their ban on firearms...
    I would think that streets and sidewalks not on the campus proper would fall under Right of way....if you're just passing thru...driving on "Main Street"...or walking on the sidewalk of "Main Street"...you would be legal. As long as you didn't make the turn into the gates University driveway you'd be ok.

    Its along the sames lines as the sidewalk in front of your house....if you have one. You are responsible for the care and upkeep of that sidewalk, but it is open for anybody to walk on.
    States don’t have rights. People do.

  9. #9
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    The 4 main roads around NCSU are OK to carry on. We verified it with the campus police at one of the local SCCC meetings. You are fine to drive on any of the roads surrounding campus. If walking, you need to be on the opposite side of the road.

    A couple of us were detained for OCing accross from campus by Raleigh Police though.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    You've obviously never talked with Greenville or ECU police... :shock:

    Not nearly as reasonable and rational as the ones around NCSU seem to be, and the ones I've talked to seem to just make up the law on the spot when asked questions.

    Greenville police have a pretty bad track record when it comes to OC, and the ECU police I've talked to can't even get the knife laws right, so I doubt they'd give anyone any slack based on something as trivial as property lines, or "Federally-protected transportation".

    I would venture the guess that if were walking down 5th or 10th on EITHER side of the street and OCing, you'd end up face-down in the grass at the very least.

    Personally, I'm not willing to be a "test case". Every time I go to class, I say a little prayer, because I leave my gun at home. I park a few blocks from campus, hustle to class, hustle back to my car, and drive straight home. Speed and stealth (and a BIG can of bear mace) are my only defense when I'm on campus.

    But believe me, any time I'm in Greenville and NOT on college business, I am packing. "G-Vegas" is NOT a particularly safe place...

    The SCCC group that is attempting to form at ECU can't even get faculty sponsorship, and we've been told outright that although a few professors agree with our position, they don't want to jeopardize their position in the university. Apparently, the administration at ECU isn't very 2A-friendly...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  11. #11
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    Thanks for the info Dreamer. I will be careful where I go while I am in Greenville.

    So far I have had no bad experiences, except for one Nervous Nellie assistant manager at TJ Maxx while shopping with my wife yesterday. Turned out that she has a CHP, but was just nervous about being sure what the "company policy" was on open carry. She asked the typical questions about a permit, or am I an officer. After she calmed down she started joking, and asked if I worked for the Post Office ... :shock:
    I suppose it wasn't really a bad experience, but it is the only time I have been asked anything you could think of as negative.


    I have been stopped multiple times by people asking about permit requirements, or asking about the revolver I OC. I have a retired Customs Service revolver that is an odd combination of frame size and barrel length.

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    http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i...p/t-60152.html

    Is yours as described there? a 686 round but with a 3 or 4 inch barrel? and is it a CS-1, cs-2, or cs-3?

    And if so, similar to http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=145366473, yes?

  13. #13
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    My 686 is a CS-1 but the barrel looks a bit longer than the one in the gunbroker photo. I need to check, because I think he told me it was from a special lot with a 3 1/2" barrel, or I may just be having brain fog. A friend bought it from the widow of a retired Customs Service officer that had passed away, and I am buying that one for myself and a Model 65 that he purchased from a prison when they updated their armory for my wife. She absolutely loved the thing the first time she picked it up. Luckily my wife is 6'1" so she can carry a K-frame without looking like she has a bazooka on her belt. He is in need of some funds to purchase a Sig .380 Special Edition he found in Ayden.

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