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Thread: 2010 Legislative Session

  1. #1
    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    So with the overly positive touted results of the state-wide races and removal of formerly anti-gun politicians from the legislative landscape; what is the speculation on the upcoming session? I know on the top of many people’s agenda is the ability to FINALLY be able to carry concealed in restaurants which serve alcohol w/on site consumption (and assumes the carrier is not imbibing.) What about some of the past initiatives which have been put forward but left to die on the vine in committee or were killed in the early stages. What is the general consensus on the difficulties now faced on passing:



    1) Restaurant conceal carry

    2) Castle Doctrine (w/civil immunity)

    3) Virginia University/College anti-carry ban.

    4) Permit teachers/educators to carry concealed in K-12 schools w/CHP.

    5) Others I missed?
    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when youre serious and when youre being sarcastic. Abraham Lincoln

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    I would guess all the stuff in the survey: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...mp;forum_id=54

    This way whena politician says they will do something before the election, answer the survey and then don't do it you can call them out on it.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    I would very much like to finally see the CHP application information be declared PRIVATE and protected from public disclosure of any kind.

    Last year they passed a law (HB2144) that prevented the State Police from releasing the CHP database, and I have since discovered that much of the general population incorrectly believes that this law protected CHP information at all sources.

    That is simply not the case. Every Court Clerk in the Commonwealth will tell you everything you want to know about every CHP applicant in their jurisdiction.

    It is my opinion that the local newspapers have voluntarily stopped the routine printing of new CHP grantees' private information simply to quell the wave of opposition that they saw heading their way. But the source is still open, for whenever anyone with a whim might want to learn all about you.

    TFred


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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    I also think we should push for a separate offense and penalty to be provided for the act of not carrying your Concealed Handgun Permit on your person.

    As the law is currently written, not carrying your permit exposes you to being charged with carrying a concealed weapon. There is no provision for persons who do have a permit, but just happen to not have it with them.

    After twice forgetting a piece of paper, you are a felon. In this day and age of computerized records and instant radio and wireless computer communication, this is obviously a ridiculously severe penalty.

    I would like to see a similar penalty to that for drivers' licenses. There is a separate offense, essentially a clerical offense, with a fine, which may be waived if you can show evidence that you did have a license at the time you were cited.

    I wouldn't really even be opposed to significantly increasing the fine (I believe the drivers license fine is only $10) or even leaving it in place with no waiver provision. I just think it's very wrong to become a felon for the "crime" of forgetting a piece of paper twice within a lifetime of legal concealed carry.

    TFred


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    Regular Member vbnative73's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    I also think we should push for a separate offense and penalty to be provided for the act of not carrying your Concealed Handgun Permit on your person.

    As the law is currently written, not carrying your permit exposes you to being charged with carrying a concealed weapon. There is no provision for persons who do have a permit, but just happen to not have it with them.

    After twice forgetting a piece of paper, you are a felon. In this day and age of computerized records and instant radio and wireless computer communication, this is obviously a ridiculously severe penalty.

    I would like to see a similar penalty to that for drivers' licenses. There is a separate offense, essentially a clerical offense, with a fine, which may be waived if you can show evidence that you did have a license at the time you were cited.

    I wouldn't really even be opposed to significantly increasing the fine (I believe the drivers license fine is only $10) or even leaving it in place with no waiver provision. I just think it's very wrong to become a felon for the "crime" of forgetting a piece of paper twice within a lifetime of legal concealed carry.

    TFred
    +1

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    As long as we're on the wish list, provide for specific criminal penalties for any Law Enforcement Officer who unlawfully arrests someone for carrying a weapon.

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    ChinChin wrote:

    5) Others I missed?
    Parking lot bill!

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    I'd like to see repeal of one handgun a month and restaurant carry, in particular.

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    WhatTimeIsIt? wrote:
    I'd like to see repeal of one handgun a month and restaurant carry, in particular.
    What is the "justification" if you will of the no CC in restaurants when you can OC? What is their reasoning behind it?

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    AEubanks wrote:
    WhatTimeIsIt? wrote:
    I'd like to see repeal of one handgun a month and restaurant carry, in particular.
    What is the "justification" if you will of the no CC in restaurants when you can OC? What is their reasoning behind it?
    I think your question makes an assumption that turns out to be just plain untrue...



    TFred


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    Hell if I know the reasoning, the law is retarded. Which is why I'd like to see concealed carry in restaurants this year.

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    TFred wrote:
    AEubanks wrote:
    WhatTimeIsIt? wrote:
    I'd like to see repeal of one handgun a month and restaurant carry, in particular.
    What is the "justification" if you will of the no CC in restaurants when you can OC? What is their reasoning behind it?
    I think your question makes an assumption that turns out to be just plain untrue...



    TFred
    ha ha.... fair enough.... none the less... Maybe I should ask what is their distorted, twisted "makes logical sense to them" reason for it?

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    AEubanks wrote:
    TFred wrote:
    AEubanks wrote:
    WhatTimeIsIt? wrote:
    I'd like to see repeal of one handgun a month and restaurant carry, in particular.
    What is the "justification" if you will of the no CC in restaurants when you can OC? What is their reasoning behind it?
    I think your question makes an assumption that turns out to be just plain untrue...



    TFred
    ha ha.... fair enough.... none the less... Maybe I should ask what is their distorted, twisted "makes logical sense to them" reason for it?
    Yes, all joking aside... I've never really heard any reason. Almost all the talking points you hear from the other side, all the way up to Tim Kaine himself, seems to push the idea that guns and alcohol don't mix. They seem to be oblivious of the fact that OC is not only legal, but mandated if you wish to carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol.

    Probably one of the more frustrating issues in Virginia, simply because the other side seems to intentionally butcher cognizant thought in pushing their view on this one.

    TFred

    ETA: You can read Kaine's "reasons" for his vetos here.

  14. #14
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    TFred wrote: And speaking of Kaine's vetos last year... we should probably just ask all the original authors to re-submit them again this year!

    TFred


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    TFred wrote:
    AEubanks wrote:
    TFred wrote:
    AEubanks wrote:
    WhatTimeIsIt? wrote:
    I'd like to see repeal of one handgun a month and restaurant carry, in particular.
    What is the "justification" if you will of the no CC in restaurants when you can OC? What is their reasoning behind it?
    I think your question makes an assumption that turns out to be just plain untrue...



    TFred
    ha ha.... fair enough.... none the less... Maybe I should ask what is their distorted, twisted "makes logical sense to them" reason for it?
    Yes, all joking aside... I've never really heard any reason. Almost all the talking points you hear from the other side, all the way up to Tim Kaine himself, seems to push the idea that guns and alcohol don't mix. They seem to be oblivious of the fact that OC is not only legal, but mandated if you wish to carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol.

    Probably one of the more frustrating issues in Virginia, simply because the other side seems to intentionally butcher cognizant thought in pushing their view on this one.

    TFred

    ETA: You can read Kaine's "reasons" for his vetos here.
    "Allowing concealed weapons into restaurants and bars that serve alcohol puts the public, the employees, and our public safety officers at risk. I take seriously the objections of law enforcement to this measure."

    ...... wow...... this makes.....zero sense

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    Regular Member doug23838's Avatar
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    I want this one:

    http://www.gunlaws.com/GFZ/GFZ-BillReview.htm

    That pretty much covers the shopping mall, workplace, parking lot thing in one fell swoop. And does so atno costto the taxpayer, and no cost to the state to implement.



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    I don't want to see Castle Doctrine as the current precedent is just fine however I would like to see civil immunity if you are not found criminally liable. Castle Doctrine goes to far into defining how one can defend their self; kind of a foot in the door to limit your ability to protect you self and family.
    I would also like to see legislation along the lines of Montana's firearms freedom act.
    Hell I would like to see all gun laws repealed...that would cover it.

  18. #18
    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    4) Permit teachers/educators to carry concealed in K-12 schools w/CHP.
    Why create another privileged class? Should apply to all LAC's. And since OC is legal in VA, this should not be restricted either.

  19. #19
    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    zoom6zoom wrote:
    4) Permit teachers/educators to carry concealed in K-12 schools w/CHP.
    Why create another privileged class? Should apply to all LAC's. And since OC is legal in VA, this should not be restricted either.
    Call me a realist. In a perfect world we'd have zero gun right restrictions. As it stands the world is not perfect and reaching too far too fast isn't practical and simply will not work, despite the fact that I might want it to.

    It took decades for things to get this out of hand and for rights to be demoted to "privileges". We're not going to get them all back overnight. . .it will take some time and immediately jumping on the one location the anti’s ALWAYS use at their foundation for fears (i.e. “why won’t somebody think of the children”) would backfire unless there is more solid foundation to build upon.


    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when youre serious and when youre being sarcastic. Abraham Lincoln

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    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    Toad wrote:
    I don't want to see Castle Doctrine as the current precedent is just fine however I would like to see civil immunity if you are not found criminally liable. Castle Doctrine goes to far into defining how one can defend their self; kind of a foot in the door to limit your ability to protect you self and family.
    Example of limitation please.
    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when youre serious and when youre being sarcastic. Abraham Lincoln

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    ChinChin wrote:
    zoom6zoom wrote:
    4) Permit teachers/educators to carry concealed in K-12 schools w/CHP.
    Why create another privileged class? Should apply to all LAC's. And since OC is legal in VA, this should not be restricted either.
    Call me a realist. It a perfect world we'd have zero gun right restrictions. As it stands the world is not perfect and reaching too far too fast isn't practical and simply will not work, despite the fact that I might want it to.

    It took decades for things to get this out of hand and for rights to be demoted to "privileges". We're not going to get them all back overnight. . .it will take some time and immediately jumping on the one location the anti’s ALWAYS use at their foundation for fears (i.e. “why won’t somebody think of the children”) would backfire unless there is more solid foundation to build upon.

    I happen to agree with you in theory ChinChin, but creating yet another step to a permit state won't work either.

    Any bill to that effect WILL create a lot of resistance and hopefully will not make it out of committee.

    We've stood by too long and allowed the CHP to be used as a carrot on a stick. I'd be happy to go along with an interim step as far as student carry goes if we hadn't already been slapped in the face with ridiculous statutes such as CHP holders being able to carry while bow hunting...etc, etc.



  22. #22
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Toad wrote:
    I don't want to see Castle Doctrine as the current precedent is just fine however I would like to see civil immunity if you are not found criminally liable. Castle Doctrine goes to far into defining how one can defend their self; kind of a foot in the door to limit your ability to protect you self and family.
    I would also like to see legislation along the lines of Montana's firearms freedom act.
    Hell I would like to see all gun laws repealed...that would cover it.
    This is true. Virginia addresses the use of deadly force quite well and I would also not wish to see this changed. I also agree with civil immunity when the victim acted in accordance with the law. I think it is a travesty to be dragged through civil litigation just to line a piece of scum's pockets (lawyer and plaintiff) with the wealth of a victim who did nothing wrong.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    zoom6zoom wrote:
    4) Permit teachers/educators to carry concealed in K-12 schools w/CHP.
    Why create another privileged class? Should apply to all LAC's. And since OC is legal in VA, this should not be restricted either.
    Federal law prohibits that. GFSZA means one must have a permit from the state the school is in or else they can't carry a loaded firearm within 1000 ft of whatever's defined as a school zone.

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    In addition to what has been mentioned, I would like to the church restriction abolished and to at least allow employees to store firearms in their vehicle while on the employer's property. It needs to be written in such away that government agencies can't get around the law as we have seen them do in other situations.

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