Seen this argument ???

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A LITTLE GUN HISTORY
In 1929, the Soviet Unionestablished gun control.. From 1929 to 1953,
about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded
upand exterminated.
[align=center]------------------------------

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million
Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
exterminated.
[/align] [align=center]------------------------------

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total
of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were
roundedup and exterminated.
[/align] [align=center]------------------------------
China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million
political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
exterminated
------------------------------

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000
Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
exterminated..
[/align] [align=center]------------------------------

Uganda established gun control in 1970... From 1971 to 1979, 300,000
Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
exterminated
[/align] [align=center]------------------------------

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. >From 1975 to 1977, one million
educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
exterminated.
-----------------------------[/align] [align=center]
[/align] [align=center]Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the20th Century
becauseof gun control: 56 million.
[/align] [align=center]------------------------------

You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians
disseminatingthis information.

Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes,
gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens

Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!

The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them
ofthis history lesson.

With guns, we are 'citizens.'[/align] [align=center]
[/align] [align=center]Without them, we are 'subjects'.

DuringWWIIthe Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew
mostAmericans were ARMED!

If you value your freedom, please spread this anti-gun control message
toall of your friends.

The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in
defense. The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more
importantthan either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is
supplemental.
[/align] [align=center]SWITZERLANDISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!
[/align] [align=center] SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE...[/align] [align=center]
[/align] [align=center]SWITZERLANDHAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATEDCRIME RATEOF ANY[/align] [align=center]CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!![/align] [align=center]IT'S A NO BRAINER![/align] [align=center]
[/align] [align=center]DON'T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS[/align] [align=center]IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.

I'm a firm believer of the2nd Amendment[/align]

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Many times. Copy and pasted emails are little more than spam in my eyes.

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Wow dude. Way to use a totally retarded and obnoxious font.

Hammer wrote:

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total
of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were
rounded up and exterminated.

Click to expand...

Germany actually had much more draconian restrictions on firearms prior to 1938. Guns were totally banned in Germany from 1920 to 1928, when restrictions were relaxed somewhat by allowing firearms with a draconian licensing scheme. The 1938 law actually relaxed restrictions a little further, keeping the licensing scheme for handguns but essentially deregulating long guns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_po...of_firearms_restrictions_in_Germany_1919-1938

Of course, the 1938 law did specifically prohibit the Jews from owning firearms, but you're post didn't say that, it said that they "established gun control" when, in whole, they actually relaxed it somewhat.

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grishnav wrote:

Wow dude. Way to use a totally retarded and obnoxious font.

Hammer wrote:

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total
of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were
rounded up and exterminated.

Click to expand...

Germany actually had much more draconian restrictions on firearms prior to 1938. Guns were totally banned in Germany from 1920 to 1928, when restrictions were relaxed somewhat by allowing firearms with a draconian licensing scheme. The 1938 law actually relaxed restrictions a little further, keeping the licensing scheme for handguns but essentially deregulating long guns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Germany#History_of_firearms_restrictions_in_Germany_1919-1938

Of course, the 1938 law did specifically prohibit the Jews from owning firearms, but you're post didn't say that, it said that they "established gun control" when, in whole, they actually relaxed it somewhat.

Click to expand...

Not only that but the 13 million is very inaccurate. In fact there were more German citizens killed during WWII and in the American and Russian prison camps after WWII than all the political prisoners that the Germans locked up.

Most of the prisoners starved in their camps because of US and UK bombing of all the rail and road infrastructure.

The US 1968 GCA is based off the 1938 German GCA, think about that one.

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sirpuma wrote:

grishnav wrote:

Wow dude. Way to use a totally retarded and obnoxious font.

Hammer wrote:

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total
of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were
rounded up and exterminated.

Click to expand...

Germany actually had much more draconian restrictions on firearms prior to 1938. Guns were totally banned in Germany from 1920 to 1928, when restrictions were relaxed somewhat by allowing firearms with a draconian licensing scheme. The 1938 law actually relaxed restrictions a little further, keeping the licensing scheme for handguns but essentially deregulating long guns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Germany#History_of_firearms_restrictions_in_Germany_1919-1938

Of course, the 1938 law did specifically prohibit the Jews from owning firearms, but you're post didn't say that, it said that they "established gun control" when, in whole, they actually relaxed it somewhat.

Click to expand...

Not only that but the 13 million is very inaccurate. In fact there were more German citizens killed during WWII and in the American and Russian prison camps after WWII than all the political prisoners that the Germans locked up.

Most of the prisoners starved in their camps because of US and UK bombing of all the rail and road infrastructure.

The US 1968 GCA is based off the 1938 German GCA, think about that one.

Click to expand...

Sounds like a skinhead quote. Is it pretty important that it's 6 million, 10 million, or 13 million? Is the point not made at less than 13 million?
And are you saying you support the 1968 GCA, or that it's no good either, like the 1938 German GCA?

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I find it offensive that you are referring to someone as a skinhead because they don't support perpetuating lies. His numbers DO make a difference. What if you were told that all of 5 people died in the WTC towers? As a historical researcher for internationally published programs I have always been disgusted at the failure to acknowledge the role of the Russians in the genocide of the Jewish people. We know that Stalin killed in excess of 8 million Jews, many by drowning on barges in Siberian lakes, which is 2 million more than even Hitler's Germany. The poor anti communist Russians who fought with the Germans to retake their homeland from the Reds that were sent to their deaths after the war is another sorry fact of U.S. History. Shame on you for acting so ignorant. Get educated.

For the rest of you, yes, many of us have heard these arguments. There are actually a few of them in his giant email. Granted, perhaps we don't like his style of posting, but there is no reason to be so rude about it. I actually was able to read it better on my monitor settings. Have a little perspective, at least it wasn't in all caps.

...except for the last part anyways...

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Solar wrote:

I find it offensive that you are referring to someone as a skinhead because they don't support perpetuating lies. His numbers DO make a difference. What if you were told that all of 5 people died in the WTC towers? As a historical researcher for internationally published programs I have always been disgusted at the failure to acknowledge the role of the Russians in the genocide of the Jewish people. We know that Stalin killed in excess of 8 million Jews, many by drowning on barges in Siberian lakes, which is 2 million more than even Hitler's Germany. The poor anti communist Russians who fought with the Germans to retake their homeland from the Reds that were sent to their deaths after the war is another sorry fact of U.S. History. Shame on you for acting so ignorant. Get educated.

For the rest of you, yes, many of us have heard these arguments. There are actually a few of them in his giant email. Granted, perhaps we don't like his style of posting, but there is no reason to be so rude about it. I actually was able to read it better on my monitor settings. Have a little perspective, at least it wasn't in all caps.

...except for the last part anyways...

Click to expand...

If that's easier to read for you, try holding ctrl and scrolling your mouse wheel, or just turn on high DPI mode.

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haha, thanks for the advice. I was just trying to say that it could be worse...

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Didn't Switzerland just make it illegal to have ammo in your home?

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I don't know. That is an interesting point though. I wonder how much of this is accurate.

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Hammer wrote:

Sounds like a skinhead quote. Is it pretty important that it's 6 million, 10 million, or 13 million? Is the point not made at less than 13 million?
And are you saying you support the 1968 GCA, or that it's no good either, like the 1938 German GCA?

Click to expand...

The truth is always important. The antis skew the statistics and misuse figures to their advantage. Let's not be like them.

I don't think the originator of the email was intending to propagate incorrect facts, but it's easy to get carried away and look over some perhaps pertinent details. Thanks to all who helped provide more accurate figures - figures which now have more power because of it.

Our arguments have to be air-tight, and the last thing you want is to use an incorrect statistic publicly, and have an anti call you on it.

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Bookman wrote:

Didn't Switzerland just make it illegal to have ammo in your home?

Click to expand...

NO! They stopped issuing Government ammo (50 rds. IIRC) to be stored with their issued rifles. You can still buy as much commercial ammo as you want.

Sorry to snap at you, but a few minutes w/ Google (or the search site of your choice)and we can all stop the distortions that doour cause no good.

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Solar wrote:

I find it offensive that you are referring to someone as a skinhead because they don't support perpetuating lies. His numbers DO make a difference. What if you were told that all of 5 people died in the WTC towers? As a historical researcher for internationally published programs I have always been disgusted at the failure to acknowledge the role of the Russians in the genocide of the Jewish people. We know that Stalin killed in excess of 8 million Jews, many by drowning on barges in Siberian lakes, which is 2 million more than even Hitler's Germany. The poor anti communist Russians who fought with the Germans to retake their homeland from the Reds that were sent to their deaths after the war is another sorry fact of U.S. History. Shame on you for acting so ignorant. Get educated.

For the rest of you, yes, many of us have heard these arguments. There are actually a few of them in his giant email. Granted, perhaps we don't like his style of posting, but there is no reason to be so rude about it. I actually was able to read it better on my monitor settings. Have a little perspective, at least it wasn't in all caps.

...except for the last part anyways...

Click to expand...

I find it offensive that you would misquote what I said. Nowhere did I call the poster a skinhead. I said the quote sounded like a skinhead response.
It is also offensive that you would use the misguided tactic of the libtard to try to discredit.
A lie is misinformation deliberately disseminated. It is far different than simply being mistaken. First, I certainly did copy and paste an e-mail. I did not generate the figures therein. If you want to find out if the information is a lie or simply mistaken, you would need to seek out the author. If you want to take it up with me, you'd need to know my motive. Are you claiming to know that?

Last, by your figures, 6 million jews at german hands + 8 million more at Russian hands is 14 million, not filling in a lot of zeros beyond the millions. Had they had arms with which to defend themselves at the very least they might have died as citizens, not as subjects.
Nitpick the #'s all you want. My question was, has anyone heard the info in my original post before. Some have arrived to bicker over it, but none to say they'd heard it, nor have any put forth their data with cites for its accuracy.
This is a great place to come to argue, but as far as 2nd amendment support, makes a wonderful go-to for the antis. How easy it must be to start a sh!tstorm here.