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Thread: My encounter with a whack-job!

  1. #1
    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    This past Sunday, I open carried my XDM into Denny's to have breakfast. (As I often do on Sunday mornings)

    Soon after entering the restaraunt on my way to the breakfast counter, I hear:

    "EXCUSE ME! SIR?.......SIR?"

    I turn and see a middle aged woman seated with her family, waving and yelling FROM ACROSS THE RESTARAUNT. I walk over to her table in order to keep any conversation a little more private instead of INCLUDING THE ENTIRE PLACE.

    Me: "Yes, ma'am?"

    Woman: "ARE YOU A POLICE OFFICER?" (still loud enough for the whole restaraunt)

    Me: "No, ma'am." (I turn to walk away)

    Woman: "THEN WHY ARE YOU CARRYING A GUN?"

    (I figure everyone is now watching anyway, so I might as well make some good points)

    Me: "I choose to take responsibility for my own safety instead of relying on someone who isn't even here. Plus, it's perfectly legal to carry a gun here."

    Woman: "I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU NEED A GUN."

    Me: "There are 12 people at Ft. Hood who didn't think they needed a gun either." (I turn to walk away)

    Woman: (at my back) "THAT ISN'T FUNNY, YOU KNOW!"

    I go to the counter and order my breakfast. I can still hear her talking in a loud manner across the room, but I ignore her. After I get my bacon and eggs (about ten minutes later) The woman approaches me where I am sitting, and leans close to whisper in my ear. (My situational awareness is in CONDITION ORANGE, Without being obvious, I keep my strong side elbow covering my pistol...I don't know what she's about to do!)

    She whispers: "I'm a police detective, and I've been asking around. I've found out you really are a police officer."

    Me: "Well, ma'am, everyone who works here knows I'm not, and anyone who doesn't work here doesn't know me."

    She walks away.

    The manager later approaches me and informs me that several customers have asked to be moved away from her table because she is disturbing them. (Evidently, I am not disturbing...SHE is.)

    On Tuesday, I go back for breakfast again and the manager informs me she walked out after I left and wrote down my licence plate number.

    Anyone else ever run into nut-jobs?

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    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    I don't even open carry and I've run into nutjobs.

    I was once eating breakfast in a Lakewood, OH McDonalds while doing my laundry when I encountered one.

    As usual, I was wearing my NRA ballcap and carrying several Collector Grade books. An elderly cleaner started giving me crap about wearing an NRA ballcap, and declaring that the NRA should be BANNED. I noted that the last time people started banning organizations, we somehow misplaced 6,000,000 Jews. He responded that he wasn't sure that was such a bad thing.

    In a "nut" shell you have the mindset of the anti-gunners.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    Just my own grandmother who flips out and makes scenes when she sees me open carrying.

    Like yelling at me in my new neighborhood I just moved into about open carrying to lunch. In front of all my neighbors who were out on a nice day.

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    So she was impersonating a police officer?

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
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    I've never encountered one, I'm hoping it's a rare occurance.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    But you don't understand. They are among the anointed ones.. the enlightened people who have been chosen to carry the burden of the ignorance of the masses. We couldn't possibly know what they know. They are so knowledgeable and open-minded to all things human. We are mere sheep and they are the shepherds who must guide us and show us the way to Nirvana.

    I had my first encounter with a vocal (very) anti this past summer. This is what I wrote about that event.

    -------------------------------------------------------------


    After 26 months of OC'ing, I had my first negative encounter this morning and it was a doosey. This morning, I stopped in the Haymarket McDonalds a little before 9:00am for a quick breakfast. As usual, it was pretty crowded. As I was in line, an armored truck pulled up and an armed individual from the truck passed by close to me, slowed down slightly, eyed me, then went on about his business. After I got my breakfast I sat down with friend, a former neighbor, to eat and enjoy his company. My strong side was facing out.

    Suddenly a man appeared at my side and said, "You should conceal that in here, you really shouldn't be carrying it open like that". As I started to respond, my friend took over and began to get in this guys face a bit. My friend is perhaps 6'4" and around 230-240 pounds, so he's a little intimidating.

    Well from that moment on, I never got a word in edgewise. I kept trying to calm down the two of them, especially my friend because I know him. The guy asked if I had a concealed permit and I said yes, then my friend chimed in on that saying, "he doesn't need a permit to carry open". The guy stated that he was a retired LEO (I think he said county and state, but he didn't say which county and state). He added that it was people like us who are destroying the Second Amendment and kept repeating that I shouldn't carry like that with all of these children around ("think of the children" - where have I heard that before???).

    As he was leaving, he shouted loudly that I shouldn't be carrying a gun in here like that. As I said, the place was pretty crowded. Then the mayor came over and asked what that was all about. We told her and she was not a bit disturbed by my sidearm (she knows both of us but didn't know the other guy).

    I remained calm throughout the encounter and kept trying to diffuse the situation between my friend and this guy. I actually wanted the guy to sit down and discuss things in a normal voice and when I said this, a male customer, who had three little ones with him, told me, "you're not going to change his mind; it's already made up". Incidentally, the reason I mentioned the armored truck man was because he was armed. And what if a police officer had stopped in for a bite to eat? What's the difference between those people being armed and a citizen being armed? They do it as a factor of their job. We do it because it is a right in Virginia.

    So the positive was that I did not get in the guy's face and make the rest of us OC'ers look bad. I stayed calm and let him look like the offender which he did according to a few others. Actually, I believe he was breaking the law and could have been charged with causing a disturbance, but I don't know that for sure.

    My friend is a really good guy and well known in the town of Haymarket. He was just pissed that this man had the audacity to approach two people minding their own business and tried to assert his beliefs on us and others.

    I know that there are some LEO's, judges, doctors, politicians, and other people in positions of power, influence, and authority who adopt the "God syndrome". They believe that they are outside of others and above us mortals, and can therefore act with impunity where we must bow to their greatness. These kinds of people are best left to stew in their own juices or when given the chance, we should be the ones to cook their goose. I would have liked to have tried to discuss things with this guy in a mature and respectfully manner but I fear the other customer was right. His mind was made up and he was not about to be swayed by rights or facts.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    He lost some of his self appointed "glory" when he saw someone else carrying.

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    Yep. Nearly three years ago (Jan 2007) in a restaurant in Manassas, VA (Tony's). A self-described ex-Marine got upset at the sight of seven men openly carrying handguns. We had met at the restaurant to discuss, among other things, the Virginia legislative session, which was currently in progress. After some heated words with several of our party, the ex-Marine sat a few feet away and ate his dinner with a female companion and left after about an hour.

    In the parking lot, he called 911 and reported "men with guns" in the restaurant. His call to 911, released via FOIA request, strongly suggested to me that he was trying to goad police into responding in the most forceful manner possible. Indeed, what was probably the entire on-duty contingent of Manassas police responded, and at least one officer from neighboring Manassas Park. They didn't know the law, were verbally abusive and insulting and eventually twisted the restaurant owner's arm to kick us out.

    Posts about the incident on OCDO and in VCDLs' VA Alert brought about 400 gun owners out to the next Manassas city council meeting. An "investigation" by the police essentially whitewashed abusive police behavior, but at least they got an education about open carry. A subsequent Manassas city council meeting attracted about 200 gun owners.

    More detailed links:
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...tony%27s+seven

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...tony%27s+seven

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...tony%27s+seven


  9. #9
    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    So she was impersonating a police officer?



    ??? I would imagine so. Who knows what kind of crap goes through these moonbat's heads. I don't know what she was trying to accomplish by "telling" me that I was wrong about being a cop. (I think I would know about something like that. I have no recollection of being deputized, and have never been through an academy or anything.) She obviously wasn't a detective or else she probably would have shown me a BADGE or something along those lines. But the wierd thing is......

    .......I have a FULL BEARD!

    ??? Maybe she thought I was a member of the Canadian Bearded Police?

    Wow. That's some good detective work, huh?

    Maybe she could arrest me for being a civilian, impersonating a police officer, impersonating a civilian?

    Detective my arse. I was going to start getting sarcastic, and call her bluff byasking for her badge, or what department, but I decided to just remainlevel headedand reply calmly with no response other thanFACTS delivered in a polite manner.Even though I could have made her out to be a complete moron in front of the whole place, I figured she was doing well enough on her own that she didn't need my help. Evidence being that at least one customer asked to be moved away from HER table. (Which would happen to be moving closer to mine, by chance, since she was seated on the other side of the place.)

    No. Even though I was sorely tempted to verbally inform her of my opinion of her (nut-case, moonbat, whack-job) in front of everyone, and probably would have had a few supporters in the crowd, I was aware that I had been made the center of attention, and therefore decided to bite my tongue and do my utmost to present myself in a unflappable and respectful manner. These are the times we all need to be fully aware that our actions are representative of ALL OPEN CARRIERS. Although I wanted to respond with sarcasm and wit, (Very badly! SHE WAS BEGGING FOR IT!), I knew that "all eyes were on me". (Actually, I think more were on her as she was the one causing the scene). I determined that my best course of action was to put on an air of informative calmness.

    Maybe, just maybe, one person walked out of there saying to themselves, "Wow. That guy sure took that better than I would have. Those OC'ers are pretty level headed."

    (edit)


    BTW: I had the entire exchange voice recorded (only the third time I've carried my new digital voice recorder) but, it was fairly boring to listen to as it took place over aout 15 minutes. (Lot's of fork "tink" on plate sounds and background conversations. I keep hearing the cooks yell "ORDER UP!" from the kitchen.) Honestly, listening to the replay wasn't nearly as exciting as participating in the original conversation. I keep asking myself, "Why did that seem such a big deal at the time, but now that I replay it, it doesn't sound very interesting?"

    I kept it for a day or two just in case the cops showed up at my door about it. (She did write down my plate number. Wonder what she did with it?) Since it has been about a week, I erased it. There are at least 6 Denny's employees and the manager himself who I have complete faith in to show up to court on my side should anything ever happen to me where I would need their testimony.

    As another footnote, one of the waitresses who I always thought disliked me said, "You come back just as you are, next time." when I left that day. Obviously "just as you are" seems pretty clear cut to mean "OC" in my opinion.

    Having friends who support you OC'ing means a heckuva lot more thanI thought it would. Makes me feel kinda warm and fuzzy just thinking about it.


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    Deanimator wrote:
    I don't even open carry and I've run into nutjobs.
    haha so true!

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    Regular Member Statesman's Avatar
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    Sounds like the lady was mentally unstable.

    In hindsight, I wonder how such an encounter would go if a person just ignored the harasser altogether. She would have looked like a crazy woman babbling to herself.

    I think in many states, such harassment may allow for charges to be filed if it doesn't stop. These folks do not have a right to harass you, especially after you voluntarily terminate the encounter and warn them to leave you alone.

    Then again, it might be worthwhile just to flip out the video camera and hit record. It would make a great OC youtube clip!

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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    especially after you voluntarily terminate the encounter and warn them to leave you alone.

    Although I did voluntarily terminate the encounter by turning my back and walking away, I never did warn her or instruct her to leave me alone in any way. I was torn on whether or not to do so. On one hand, it obviously shows her to be the aggressor, but I felt she was "emitting" plenty of that "vibe" to everyone around.

    Had I "warned" her or told her to leave me alone, I felt (IMHO) that it might possibly be construed that I felt her to be a threat, that I was intimidated, or that her emotional actions had any influence whatsoever on my state of mind.

    I wanted to project an air of calm indifference. I think I did so. By "warning" her of anything, it might give her, or anyone else listening, the idea that her actions influenced mine in some way.

    (They did. Here I am writing about it. That's about all she got me to do.)

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    Superlite27 wrote:
    especially after you voluntarily terminate the encounter and warn them to leave you alone.

    Had I "warned" her or told her to leave me alone, I felt (IMHO) that it might possibly be construed that I felt her to be a threat, that I was intimidated, or that her emotional actions had any influence whatsoever on my state of mind.

    I wanted to project an air of calm indifference. I think I did so. By "warning" her of anything, it might give her, or anyone else listening, the idea that her actions influenced mine in some way.
    My situational awareness is in CONDITION ORANGE, Without being obvious, I keep my strong side elbow covering my pistol...I don't know what she's about to do!)


    So which is it? Is she irrelevant or is the cranky old lady a threat worth preparing to draw on?

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    TheMrMitch wrote:
    He lost some of his self appointed "glory" when he saw someone else carrying.
    I believe you are correct that some folks, some even within the gun community, perceive open carry as a personal affront to their "legend in my own mind" egos.... or as being confronted with something they just don't have the courage to do themselves.

    Although if I ever run into someone who gives me the open carry "lecture" while saying they are LE of any kind... off duty, retired, plain clothes, detective, posse member, whatever... I will follow procedure and disclose my CPL (have BUG, will travel) if appropriate and then ask for their name/ID to follow up with the real LE later. Failure to disclose their name/ID will result in an immediate 911 call to check up on a suspected LE impersonator. I will try to get their license plate number as they leave.

    Edited to add.... perhaps a quick photo on my phone would be a good idea before dialing 911....
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    [snip quite a bit]

    Incidentally, the reason I mentioned the armored truck man was because he was armed. And what if a police officer had stopped in for a bite to eat? What's the difference between those people being armed and a citizen being armed? They do it as a factor of their job. We do it because it is a right in Virginia.

    [snip quite a bit more]
    So maybe it's our "job" to inform and educate the public by exercising our Second Amendment!? One does not have to be paid to have a job.
    "Yes ma'am, carrying this gun is a requirement for my job, that's all I'm prepared to say to you about it."
    Now that doesn't educate the person, but if they're that nutty, nothing on Earth will do that anyway.

    TFred


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    You want to talk "whack job"--try rationally discussing the failure of gun control with certain "enlightened" individuals from the UK--now they really are whack jobs"...Some of them simply don't even seem capable of understanding simple English.

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    Superlite27 wrote:
    The woman approaches me where I am sitting, and leans close to whisper in my ear. (My situational awareness is in CONDITION ORANGE, Without being obvious, I keep my strong side elbow covering my pistol...I don't know what she's about to do!)

    Woman or no--unless she is my girlfriend I never voluntarily allow a stranger that close to me.

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    Deanimator wrote:
    I don't even open carry and I've run into nutjobs.

    I was once eating breakfast in a Lakewood, OH McDonalds while doing my laundry when I encountered one.

    As usual, I was wearing my NRA ballcap and carrying several Collector Grade books. An elderly cleaner started giving me crap about wearing an NRA ballcap, and declaring that the NRA should be BANNED. I noted that the last time people started banning organizations, we somehow misplaced 6,000,000 Jews. He responded that he wasn't sure that was such a bad thing.

    In a "nut" shell you have the mindset of the anti-gunners.
    Sounds like that man would have done well under Stalin or Hitler..but then again, most of the anti-gunners would have done well under Stalin, Hitler, Pinochet, or even the Khmer Rouge...

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    "He lost some of his self appointed "glory" when he saw someone else carrying.
    -- TheMrMitch,

    I think that's very true: Some LEOS (meaning cops/ATF/FBI and so on) don't like seeing average citizens wearing guns because it was one of the things that differentiated them from us "commoners" for so long. Now, THEY aren't that "special" anymore. Additionally, most aren't even as competent as a civilian re:hittingtheir targets.

    And look at all the hypochrite pansy anti-gun "tough guy" actors (excluding Steven Segal and a smallnumber ofothers) on TV wearing guns, even THEY give the impression guns are for "special" people, not the rest of us.

    -- John D.
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

  20. #20
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    Cranky old ladies (or anyone else) can turn into maniacal banshees inna blink. It's advisable to guard your weapon and keep your space.

    I have ceased to engage any commentors (pro or con)beyond bare minimums unless they're heeled as well. I give them 'the look'. I suppose it's less common for confrontations in AZ than many other locales... but 'they' tend to come here. She was impersonating a police officer with that remark... If you had it on the recorder and got her tag number or credit card sig... before she left... ??? 911 is for emergencies... so that wouldn't do it.

    Yeah... I know the tendancy is to be polite... but you may politely ignore a harrasser and discreetly ask the management to handle it. That's disorderly conduct and they may be trespassed. 'Didn't used to happen here at all until the past 6-8 years or so. That's about when the invasion began. CC wasn't even an option 'til '94. You don't list 'where' you are located.

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    Roger that on encountering weirdos even when not carrying. I once had some nutjob call 911 to report me for not turning off my vehicle while fueling it at a gas station.
    Nevermind that his cell phone could as easily ignite fumes as my still running Jeep....

    Oddly, he wasn't on the phone very long but continued giving me "go to hell" looks which only intensified as I smiled and waved while driving away.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    Is she irrelevant or is the cranky old lady a threat worth preparing to draw on?

    Having a relevant argument and getting close enough to grasp my firearm are two different things.

    There is both mental and physical relevance. Even though they are two different things, one can influence the perception of the other. If a person makes a strong and valid argument that mentally "disarms" an opponent in an argument, it is possible to perceive this person as physically stronger, even though it may not be the case.

    I can completely ignore an individual as a threat. I'm sure an eight year old girl is no match to me in physical strength, cannot match my logic in a complex argument, and I'll be a monkey's uncle if I validate them as a worthyopponent in a serious situation by acknowledging themwith even the appearance of being threatened. (Very similar to how I treated the nut-job.) By visibly appearing to dismiss her by my physical reaction, I hope (to the people watching) I also dismissed her argument. I WAS NOT THREATENED by her tone, volume, boldness, or her argument, point, or whatever she was trying to convey. It did not "rattle" me. I wasn't embarrased, hot headed, angry, put off, or affected in any manner (or at least this is how I hoped to appear. I was pretty offended, but I wasn't about to validate her argument by showing a physical reaction.)

    I can completely ignore an individual as a threat. I'm sure an eight year old girl is no match to me in physical strength, cannot match my logic in a complex argument, and I'll be a monkey's uncle if I validate them as a worthyopponent in a serious situation by acknowledging themwith even the appearance of being threatened. (Very similar to how I treated the nut-job.)

    But I'm still not going to completely dismiss an eight year old girl when she's within reach of my .40 caliber pistol. We now enter the physical realm.

    Situational awareness is situational awareness.

    Right now I'm situationally aware of your attempt to provoke an argument by searching for discrepancies in the relation of my encounter. There are none. Your attempt to find one does, however, cause me to wonder about your motives.

    Why are you looking for discrepancies?

    What is your motivation to find one?

    Why would you focus on this particular aspect of the encounter rather than note the odd behavior of the woman who started it?

    Since I previously dismissed her point of view, (not her physical person) should I have not been cautious when she entered my personal space?

    Hmmmm. I will gladly listen to your point of view.I guess,if you do convince me that your point is valid, I could do the one thing that might possibly achieve the goal you appear to be striving for.

    I guess I'm a hypocrite. There. You win! Happy?

    (Unless you care to inform me of another goal I might be unaware of. I am, of course, fallible. My situational awareness might not be without a chink.)

    I'm still not going to let you within arms length of my physical self without inconspicuously guarding my firearm.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    [snip quite a bit]

    Incidentally, the reason I mentioned the armored truck man was because he was armed. And what if a police officer had stopped in for a bite to eat? What's the difference between those people being armed and a citizen being armed? They do it as a factor of their job. We do it because it is a right in Virginia.

    [snip quite a bit more]
    So maybe it's our "job" to inform and educate the public by exercising our Second Amendment!? One does not have to be paid to have a job.
    "Yes ma'am, carrying this gun is a requirement for my job, that's all I'm prepared to say to you about it."
    Now that doesn't educate the person, but if they're that nutty, nothing on Earth will do that anyway.

    TFred
    Or perhaps you could say this.

    "Yes, it is my job. My job to my family to arrive home safely at the end of the day."

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    markand wrote:
    Yep. Nearly three years ago (Jan 2007) in a restaurant in Manassas, VA (Tony's). A self-described ex-Marine got upset at the sight of seven men openly carrying handguns. We had met at the restaurant to discuss, among other things, the Virginia legislative session, which was currently in progress. After some heated words with several of our party, the ex-Marine sat a few feet away and ate his dinner with a female companion and left after about an hour.

    In the parking lot, he called 911 and reported "men with guns" in the restaurant. His call to 911, released via FOIA request, strongly suggested to me that he was trying to goad police into responding in the most forceful manner possible. Indeed, what was probably the entire on-duty contingent of Manassas police responded, and at least one officer from neighboring Manassas Park. They didn't know the law, were verbally abusive and insulting and eventually twisted the restaurant owner's arm to kick us out.

    Posts about the incident on OCDO and in VCDLs' VA Alert brought about 400 gun owners out to the next Manassas city council meeting. An "investigation" by the police essentially whitewashed abusive police behavior, but at least they got an education about open carry. A subsequent Manassas city council meeting attracted about 200 gun owners.

    More detailed links:
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...tony%27s+seven

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...tony%27s+seven

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...tony%27s+seven
    Around a year ago, I met a Manassas police officer who was off duty and had stopped in the local Wendy's with his lady before they both headed out for some shooting. The three of us had a great conversation as we ate our lunch. He told me he was familiar with the "Manassas 7" incident at Tony's and that the female officer who was "in charge" was not known for her tact - she was a bit full of herself.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Psychotics: Psychotics are always looking & scanning for ANYTHING to feed the emotional monster in them that has displaced their true self, this monster lives off of resentment , this ultra unhealthy type of person lives off the life force emanation from those of us who over react to them as they tempt you to feed them with anger.

    Most of them were beat down as children and attempt to use you as a replacement parent trying to put you in the roll of the person who broke them and upset them , its crazy but they do it all day long to everyone, they are never happy only emotionaly compensated crazy nay , every day "evil" people

    These people are broken people who have lost there own inner life sustaining effervescence and now need yours and your anger to bolster there own flagging sense of lost esteem, like psychic vampires the do what was done unto them.

    When you over react they get a pump up for there own deflated ego, sad but every were you go there is another one, like zombies they are "pod people" human look-a-likes who are an empty vacume of displaced humanity, replaced with zero intuition and zero logic only a spirit of anger & regurgitated resentments.

    Christians call them "possessed" or "replaced", if it wasn't your gun it would be your cologne, or the color of your clothes or the type of food you are eating.


    Some of them are very dangerous because they seek power, but they are ALL cowards so most of them that are functional & cunning are in politics and government.

    (( I'm not a psychologist but I did read a book about one at the Holliday Inn I slept at last night , lol ))

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