Examiner.com: National Park Service to educate public on gun rights

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http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m11d13-National-Park-Service-to-educate-public-on-gun-rights

SNIP


According to National Park Spokesperson Phil Selleck, the Park Service is not going to go through any formal rulemaking process for each park. Instead said Selleck, the Service is going to work to "educate the public" and park employees on the gun carry rights in each park. Selleck said that federal law at 18 U.S.C. 930continues to ban gun carry in "federal facilities," but advised that the Park Service does not consider unattended structures such as "outhouses" to be federal facilities because "employees are not regularly present there to perform official duties."

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Now, if we could ONLY get the Feds on record stating that SELF DEFENSE is PART of "OTHER LAWFUL PURPOSE" in 18 USC 930 highlighted above!

THEN I could carry within the other buildings in a national park or forest other than "an unattended outhouse!"

Edited to add ending " after purpose and the "18" in front of 'US' and the "C" after 'US'.

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Open carry is something of a political movement, so perhaps 'political statement' could be the 'other lawful purpose'.

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Well, it's gratifying to know thatI can protect myself while taking a dump at Yellowstone! :celebrate

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Yeah, and if only police would stop harassing open carriers, blah blah blah.

The feds deliberately omit (d) on the signs they post. The law even allows them to deceive the public in this way. They're not going to change their ways until they're backed into a corner in a courtroom.

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However, employees ARE there to performofficial "doodies".



...sorry, it just begged to be said

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McX wrote:

Would the State Capitol Building qualify as an unattended outhouse?

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It could be argued the Federal Capitol Building has become one!

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I don't know about any of you, but when I am performing duties in an outhouse they are indeed "official".

And growing up with an outhouse (yes, very simple roots) even as a kid I was encouraged to carry at least a shotgun out there with me. Of course I was raised rurally.

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opusd2 wrote:

And growing up with an outhouse (yes, very simple roots) even as a kid I was encouraged to carry at least a shotgun out there with me. Of course I was raised rurally.

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There's nothing scarier than a cornered outhouse rodent!

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Spoken like someone who has been there!

But there is something a little scarier, an unseen crack on the outhouse seat that is discovered after sitting down. I won't go into specifics.

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wouldn't it be better if they'd forget about educating the public and concentrate on educating their employees instead. Just thinking out loud here. Any problems that arise will most likely be by uninformed/untrained "employees" rather than from a citizen.



I expect that most of the problems that occur will be from a ranger/employee trying to violate the rights of a citzen by harassing the citizen for lawful carry.

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So, are they saying the outhouses are not regularly serviced? Ewww...

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Huck wrote:

Well, it's gratifying to know thatI can protect myself while taking a dump at Yellowstone! :celebrate

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Not just yourself and your loved ones, but your turds, too....

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If you read subsection H of 930 you will see

(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.

Kind of looks like they have to have it posted. I wonder if they do....AT EVERY ENTRANCE....(like the one I will use won't be)...... I think I'll talk to a lawyer about just what that last part says though. The part beginning "unlles such person had....". Is that their way of saying "he read it on the internet and so he had notice?"

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January is coming soon!

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Mike wrote:

January is coming soon!

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It is January !

Yata hey

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It's FEBRUARY 22nd for the "active" date is it not?

Also, in reading section 512 of the amendment, I see no prohibition against carrying inside the facilities located in National Parks. In fact, it says:

(b) Protecting the Right of Individuals To Bear arms in Units of the National Park System and the National Wildlife Refuge System- The Secretary of the Interior shall not promulgate or enforce any regulation that prohibits an individual from possessing a firearm including an assembled or functional firearm in any unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System if--


http://www.govtrack.us/embed/sample-billtext.xpd?bill=h111-627&version=enr&nid=t0:enr:599
(1) the individual is not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing the firearm; and


http://www.govtrack.us/embed/sample-billtext.xpd?bill=h111-627&version=enr&nid=t0:enr:600
(2) the possession of the firearm is in compliance with the law of the State in which the unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System is located.

Now that seems to me to be saying that we can carry, PERIOD, so long as we are in compliance with state law and not prohibited from posessing a firearm (i.e. prohibited individual).

Also, it doesn't make any restrictions on open or concealled, in or out of vehicle, ONLY that it must be in compliance with state law.

Here in Oregon, it's perfectly legal to have a loaded rifle in the window of your truck (or slung on your shoulder if you want)or a handgun carried openly on your side. No permit is required for either so it will be interesting when I make my first trip up to the "local" NP to see just how things go.

Anyone else care to weigh in on what the LAW is really saying about where we can carry on the NP's? I don't think 930 really applies as a restriction but I've seen some saying that it does and therefore prohibits carry in the buildings. I disagree but this is certainly new ground and I'm not a lawyer.

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We-the-People wrote:

we can carry, PERIOD, so long as we are in compliance with state law and not prohibited from posessing a firearm (i.e. prohibited individual).

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Wrong, you must also comply with all federal law, including 18 USC 930.

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I thought that the new "regulation" says that the State Law governs the rules regarding carrying, depending on where the National Park is located.

Thus, in California with strict laws, one could not defend themselves while in the "head" at say, Yosemite National Park; whereas, if we were lucky enough to have that urge at say, Shenandoah Park in Virginia, we could: "Shoot Back".