dirtykoala
Regular Member
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2009
- Messages
- 644
imported post
So you may or may not have noticed that ive been posting here less. I'm trying to keep my posting down to things that I need help with, or that I think could help others.
Here is whats been going on with the Sunnyvale PD since 9/11/09 during my encounter.
First, the transcript of my encounter. (Long, but I think its a good read if you havent read it. PS, I do consider myself an activist now)
September 11 2009
Text from audio recording during LEO contact, Starbucks on El Camino and Mathilda.
Odle: Sir! (from about 30 ft behind me)
Me: (to myself) I just got waved over by a cop, I’m going over to talk to him
He’s motioned me to stop, it looks like he’s calling for back up
Odle: who are you with? Is this um open carry?
Me: yes sir, I’m legally armed, unloaded
Odle: I’m sorry?
Me: I’m legally carrying, and its unloaded
Odle: I understand, is this part of open carry or anything like that?
Me: um, I frequent the forums, but I don’t consider myself an activist
Odle: ok, are your weapons loaded
Me: no
Odle: they are not?
Me: no
Odle: please keep your hand where i can see them. Do you mind if I take a look at your weapons to make sure they are not loaded?
Me: if you are demanding, that’s alright
Odle: I’m sorry?
Me: if you are demanding to look, that is ok
Odle: no, I’m asking.
Me: well, only my weapon right?
Odle: ok,just keep your hands where I can see them. No weird movements (muffled) (walks over) how you doing?
Me: alright
Odle: you got everybody a little bit attention, you got everybody’s attention today
Me: (to myself) three cops visible
Odle: hey, so, there’s nothing loaded here?
Me: ammo, clips are loaded, the weapon is not
Odle: am I being recorded or anything like that?
Me: audio recorded, yes
Odle: ok, so you are part of the open carry
Me: sort of, I’m just kind of going about my business
Odle: yeah I understand that.
Lt. Dale: go ahead and pull him and inspect it, verify and then send him on his way
Odle: ok just keep your hands... what kind of weapon is this
Me: Glock model 22
Odle: how do we… (Trying to remove my weapon from my holster)
Me: Just pull it out.
Odle: Just straight out? perfect. Anything in the mag?
Me: nope
Odle: do you mind if I check the other mags?
Me: well, they are loaded
Odle: they are? Ok...alright
Lt. Dale: (in radio) Sunnyvale 5.1. We’re code 4
Odle: (to Lt. Dale) Anything you’d like to say boss?
Lt. Dale: are you part of the group? Are you being taped right now by the way?
Me: are you?
Lt. Dale: yeah
Me: you are being audio recorded, yes
Lt. Dale: ok, alright, you’ve been thorough this routine several times right? You know what its about. We’re going to FI you, and then you’ll be on your way
Lt. Dale: (to Odle) go ahead, just step on it
Odle: would you mind if I checked your ID sir?
Me: I would prefer that you didn’t actually.
Odle: ok.
Lt. Dale: I’m sorry, I missed that, you’re not going to identify yourself to us?
Me: no sir.
Lt. Dale: ok, you can identify yourself to us ok. We have legal cause to come in and figure out who you are, alright?
Me: well, it’s not illegal for me to not identify myself correct? I can’t falsely identify, I’m just declining to identify. I’m not going to lie or anything. I’m not doing anything illegal.
Lt. Dale: ok (to Odle) go ahead and finish a pat search on him. Have him put out his cigarette.
Me: is it ok if I put it out on the ground?
Lt. Dale: yes.
(I put mycigarette and coffee on the ground)
Odle: just put your hand behind your back
Me.: you are going to search me?
Odle: just a pat search, spread your feet for me, (Odle grabs my hands and starts to search)are you by yourself today?
Me: Yes.
Odle: You got a vest on too huh?
Me: Yup.
Me: Good? Can I get my coffee?
Odleto Lt. Dale: Boss, what was the way to circumvent that whole ID thing?
Lt. Dale to Odle: can I talk to you for a second? (Lt. Dale and Officer Odle go away and get on the phone, leaving me with Lopez)
Lopez: the magazines are full?
Me: Yes. That was Lt. Dale?
Lopez: Excuse me?
Me: Lt. Dale?
Lopez: Yes
Me: And you are Officer Lopez?
Lopez: Yes
Me: What was the other officer’s name?
Lopez: Odle
Me: What was that?
Lopez: Odle
(Lt. Dale and officer Odle are talking on their phones about 30 ft away.)
Lopez: What kind of gun do you got there?
Me: Glock 22
Me: Do you know how much longer this detainment will be?
Lopez: Not long, they are just clarifying some things.
Me: I think everything has been clarified right?
Lopez: what was that?
Me: everything has been clarified right? Gun’s unloaded.
Lopez: not yet
Me: what’s left?
Lopez:He’s the supervisor, he'll let you know if he has questions.I don’t know what he’s asking.
Lt. Dale to Odle: (walkingback but still far away)we can 29 the weapon, and then I’ll have, I’ll go into star bucks, ok?
Me to Lopez: I don’t think he’s actually aloud to check my weapon at this point.
Lt. Dale: Alright sir, were going to go ahead and run your weapon for registration and make sure that it’s not stolen, and I’m going to go in and see if Starbucks is still comfortable with you being a customer, ok?
Me: can I say something about that real quick please?
Lt. Dale: yeah, absolutely
Me: you only get the chance to run my serial if it comes into plain view while you check my weapon. You can’t investigate again after you’ve already checked it. You can do a 12031(e) check, verify and unloaded weapon, if the serial number comes into plain view and you happen to check it and run it that’s completely within your means, but you’re not allowed toactually search again.
Lt. Dale: he’s going to search you again, he’s going to search again
Me: he is going to search me again?
Lt. Dale: yep
Me: and you are officer Odle?
Lt. Dale: officer Odle is going to...
Me: search my weapon, again. Just to verify the serial number right?
Odle: Yes
Me: and a 12031 check has alreadybeen completed?
(Odle takes my weapon from my belt holster)
Lt. Dale: Yup. I will be right back (he goes into Starbucks)
Me: Do you mind if I reach into my pocket and get some literature for you?
Odle: Hold on.What is this a 40 caliber? (into radio) Sunnyvale, 5.1., 29 check hand gun
Me: can I get your card please?
Lopez: we’ll give you all of our names.
Odle: (it’s going to be by serial number, is a glock model .22, 40 caliber [serialnumber])
Odle: and you are the registered owner of this?
Me: I’m going to decline to respond, you don’t have to be the registered owner to carry a firearm.
Odle: Oh, ok. Just asking.
Lt. Dale: Ok, Chris the manager, representing Starbuck’s has 86ed you from the premise, as long as you are showing your weapon ok? So if you come back it will be a violation.
Me: That’s only inside their store?
Lt. Dale: correct, and whatever property they govern.
Me: Do you know what that is?
Lt. Dale: You know what, I imagine they probably have off premise, so probably the tables too. (muffled)
Lt. Dale: we good?
Odle: It comes back to [name name and address]12 0 51
Dispatch: additional information on the weapon (we have a transfer of ownership, dated (date) name, address)
Odle: five-one, can you ten-twenty-nine him?
Me: So you guys are now verifying my background as a result…
Lt. Dale: we don’t know your background
Me: well you’re verifying that there’s nothing preventing me from owning a weapon based on your 2nd check
Lt. Dale: what we’redoing is checking on the status of the weapon, we don’t know who you are yet. You haven’t identified yourself; if you had you would have been on your way.
Me: So because I failed to identify myself, this detainment is taking this long?
Lt. Dale: Its taking longer than it would, yeah.
Me: Alright. Do you mind if I give you some literature on this? I was asking if I could reach in my pocket and get this.
Lt. Dale: I think it’s been handed out. I think our officers have come in contact and this is some of the protocol we are working through right now I guess.
Me: this is taking longer than it should just to verify that my weapon is unloaded.
At this point my audio recorder stops recording by accident, the conversation did not last much longer than this. The length of this recording was 11 minutes, 16 seconds. The unrecorded section of this encounter was approximately 3-6 minutes.
Next is the complaint I sent in: (thanks for the help, you know who you are)
September 11 2009
To Whom It May Concern:
On the morning of September 11, 2009 I was unlawfully detained by several Sunnyvale police officers. I was contacted while a TASER gun was drawn and at the “alert” position, I was detained without reasonable articulable suspicion, I was frisked, and my property was seized on multiple occasions. Numerous Supreme Court Case Laws were violated as well as my constitutionally protected rights to be secure in my person and effects, and to be protected from unreasonable searches and seizures.
Two officers; Lt. Dale and Officer Odle, intentionally committed these unlawful actions. It is unfathomable that the Sunnyvale Police Department employs officers who have sworn to uphold the Constitution and fail to grasp the very basics of what our country has held to be the most important to its people.
California Penal Code 12031(e) states:
(e) In order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded for
the purpose of enforcing this section, peace officers are authorized
to examine any firearm carried by anyone on his or her person or in a
vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an
incorporated city or prohibited area of an unincorporated territory.
Refusal to allow a peace officer to inspect a firearm pursuant to
this section constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of
this section.
This statute does not allow for the serial number of the firearm in question to be run. It merely allows for a cursory check to see if the gun has a round in the chamber or any rounds in an inserted magazine. Any competent person familiar with firearms can perform this check in less than 10 seconds. By needlessly detaining me beyond the examination of my firearm, my person was unlawfully seized, a clear violation of the fourth amendment.
In Coolidge vs. New Hampshire, the Supreme Court explained when evidence which came in to "plain view" could be used. The court held that, "Under certain circumstances, the police may, without a warrant seize, evidence in 'plain view,' though not for that reason alone, and only when the discovery of the evidence is inadvertent." Your officers explained to me, in no uncertain terms, that they were seizing my firearm a second time for the sole purpose of running the serial numbers. This clearly violates the guidelines set out in Coolidge.
In a later case, Arizona vs. Hicks, the court put even stricter guidelines on the "plain view" doctrine. The Supreme Court ruling stated that, "Probable cause is required to invoke the 'plain view' doctrine as it applies to seizures." In my case, not only was there no probable cause, but there wasn't even reasonable suspicion. I explained to the officers in question that they were not within their rights to run the serial number of my sidearm, my complaints went unheard. These officers clearly have violated this guideline of the Supreme Court as well.
As you may know, California at one time had a "stop and identify" statute, but it was declared unconstitutionally vague in Kolender v. Lawson. Since that time citizens in California who are not operating a motor vehicle cannot be compelled to identify themselves. In Brown v. Texas, the Supreme Court held that, despite the fact that Texas had a stop and identify statute, "The application of the Texas statute to detain appellant and require him to identify himself violated the Fourth Amendment because the officers lacked any reasonable suspicion to believe that appellant was engaged or had engaged in criminal conduct." Once again, since these officers lacked reasonable suspicion, they violated this guideline of the Supreme Court.
When these officers searched me for weapons, they did so without having reasonable suspicion that I had or was about to commit a crime. In Terry vs. Ohio the Supreme Court ruled that a police officer could perform an exterior search of a person's clothes provided that the officer had reasonable articulable suspicion. Your officers searched me without reasonable suspicion, clearly violating the Supreme Court's guidelines.
These court rulings are not new or obscure; they are well-established and widely known. With the multitude of flagrant fourth amendment violations, I would undoubtedly prevail in a 42 USC 1983 complaint against these officers and the Sunnyvale Police Department. Without severe punishment against these officers, I fail to see how Sunnyvale Police Department can continue to perform its duties in an ethical manner. I am a lawful, peaceful citizen. I demand that steps be taken to prevent similar incidents from occurring in the future.
Sincerely,
[size=[font=Calibri][/font]][/size]
--------------------
so, today, 2 months and 2 days later, i get a response: (dont feel like scanning it, im gonna type it out)
Dear ------------------:
On September 11, 2209, you filed an inquiry concerning the policies and procedures of the City of Sunnyvale, Department of Public Safety. i have thoroughly reviewed the incident concerning your inquiry and found the officers were following the policies and procedures set in place at the time and tehre was no misconduct on their part.
Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention. The Department of Public Safety is committed to providing the highest quality police and fire services to our community. In order to be responsive to the needs of the community, citizens input is essential.
Should you have any questions regarding the inquiry and/or the subsequent findings, please feel free to contact my office at (408) 123-4567.
Sincerley,
blah
So you may or may not have noticed that ive been posting here less. I'm trying to keep my posting down to things that I need help with, or that I think could help others.
Here is whats been going on with the Sunnyvale PD since 9/11/09 during my encounter.
First, the transcript of my encounter. (Long, but I think its a good read if you havent read it. PS, I do consider myself an activist now)
September 11 2009
Text from audio recording during LEO contact, Starbucks on El Camino and Mathilda.
Odle: Sir! (from about 30 ft behind me)
Me: (to myself) I just got waved over by a cop, I’m going over to talk to him
He’s motioned me to stop, it looks like he’s calling for back up
Odle: who are you with? Is this um open carry?
Me: yes sir, I’m legally armed, unloaded
Odle: I’m sorry?
Me: I’m legally carrying, and its unloaded
Odle: I understand, is this part of open carry or anything like that?
Me: um, I frequent the forums, but I don’t consider myself an activist
Odle: ok, are your weapons loaded
Me: no
Odle: they are not?
Me: no
Odle: please keep your hand where i can see them. Do you mind if I take a look at your weapons to make sure they are not loaded?
Me: if you are demanding, that’s alright
Odle: I’m sorry?
Me: if you are demanding to look, that is ok
Odle: no, I’m asking.
Me: well, only my weapon right?
Odle: ok,just keep your hands where I can see them. No weird movements (muffled) (walks over) how you doing?
Me: alright
Odle: you got everybody a little bit attention, you got everybody’s attention today
Me: (to myself) three cops visible
Odle: hey, so, there’s nothing loaded here?
Me: ammo, clips are loaded, the weapon is not
Odle: am I being recorded or anything like that?
Me: audio recorded, yes
Odle: ok, so you are part of the open carry
Me: sort of, I’m just kind of going about my business
Odle: yeah I understand that.
Lt. Dale: go ahead and pull him and inspect it, verify and then send him on his way
Odle: ok just keep your hands... what kind of weapon is this
Me: Glock model 22
Odle: how do we… (Trying to remove my weapon from my holster)
Me: Just pull it out.
Odle: Just straight out? perfect. Anything in the mag?
Me: nope
Odle: do you mind if I check the other mags?
Me: well, they are loaded
Odle: they are? Ok...alright
Lt. Dale: (in radio) Sunnyvale 5.1. We’re code 4
Odle: (to Lt. Dale) Anything you’d like to say boss?
Lt. Dale: are you part of the group? Are you being taped right now by the way?
Me: are you?
Lt. Dale: yeah
Me: you are being audio recorded, yes
Lt. Dale: ok, alright, you’ve been thorough this routine several times right? You know what its about. We’re going to FI you, and then you’ll be on your way
Lt. Dale: (to Odle) go ahead, just step on it
Odle: would you mind if I checked your ID sir?
Me: I would prefer that you didn’t actually.
Odle: ok.
Lt. Dale: I’m sorry, I missed that, you’re not going to identify yourself to us?
Me: no sir.
Lt. Dale: ok, you can identify yourself to us ok. We have legal cause to come in and figure out who you are, alright?
Me: well, it’s not illegal for me to not identify myself correct? I can’t falsely identify, I’m just declining to identify. I’m not going to lie or anything. I’m not doing anything illegal.
Lt. Dale: ok (to Odle) go ahead and finish a pat search on him. Have him put out his cigarette.
Me: is it ok if I put it out on the ground?
Lt. Dale: yes.
(I put mycigarette and coffee on the ground)
Odle: just put your hand behind your back
Me.: you are going to search me?
Odle: just a pat search, spread your feet for me, (Odle grabs my hands and starts to search)are you by yourself today?
Me: Yes.
Odle: You got a vest on too huh?
Me: Yup.
Me: Good? Can I get my coffee?
Odleto Lt. Dale: Boss, what was the way to circumvent that whole ID thing?
Lt. Dale to Odle: can I talk to you for a second? (Lt. Dale and Officer Odle go away and get on the phone, leaving me with Lopez)
Lopez: the magazines are full?
Me: Yes. That was Lt. Dale?
Lopez: Excuse me?
Me: Lt. Dale?
Lopez: Yes
Me: And you are Officer Lopez?
Lopez: Yes
Me: What was the other officer’s name?
Lopez: Odle
Me: What was that?
Lopez: Odle
(Lt. Dale and officer Odle are talking on their phones about 30 ft away.)
Lopez: What kind of gun do you got there?
Me: Glock 22
Me: Do you know how much longer this detainment will be?
Lopez: Not long, they are just clarifying some things.
Me: I think everything has been clarified right?
Lopez: what was that?
Me: everything has been clarified right? Gun’s unloaded.
Lopez: not yet
Me: what’s left?
Lopez:He’s the supervisor, he'll let you know if he has questions.I don’t know what he’s asking.
Lt. Dale to Odle: (walkingback but still far away)we can 29 the weapon, and then I’ll have, I’ll go into star bucks, ok?
Me to Lopez: I don’t think he’s actually aloud to check my weapon at this point.
Lt. Dale: Alright sir, were going to go ahead and run your weapon for registration and make sure that it’s not stolen, and I’m going to go in and see if Starbucks is still comfortable with you being a customer, ok?
Me: can I say something about that real quick please?
Lt. Dale: yeah, absolutely
Me: you only get the chance to run my serial if it comes into plain view while you check my weapon. You can’t investigate again after you’ve already checked it. You can do a 12031(e) check, verify and unloaded weapon, if the serial number comes into plain view and you happen to check it and run it that’s completely within your means, but you’re not allowed toactually search again.
Lt. Dale: he’s going to search you again, he’s going to search again
Me: he is going to search me again?
Lt. Dale: yep
Me: and you are officer Odle?
Lt. Dale: officer Odle is going to...
Me: search my weapon, again. Just to verify the serial number right?
Odle: Yes
Me: and a 12031 check has alreadybeen completed?
(Odle takes my weapon from my belt holster)
Lt. Dale: Yup. I will be right back (he goes into Starbucks)
Me: Do you mind if I reach into my pocket and get some literature for you?
Odle: Hold on.What is this a 40 caliber? (into radio) Sunnyvale, 5.1., 29 check hand gun
Me: can I get your card please?
Lopez: we’ll give you all of our names.
Odle: (it’s going to be by serial number, is a glock model .22, 40 caliber [serialnumber])
Odle: and you are the registered owner of this?
Me: I’m going to decline to respond, you don’t have to be the registered owner to carry a firearm.
Odle: Oh, ok. Just asking.
Lt. Dale: Ok, Chris the manager, representing Starbuck’s has 86ed you from the premise, as long as you are showing your weapon ok? So if you come back it will be a violation.
Me: That’s only inside their store?
Lt. Dale: correct, and whatever property they govern.
Me: Do you know what that is?
Lt. Dale: You know what, I imagine they probably have off premise, so probably the tables too. (muffled)
Lt. Dale: we good?
Odle: It comes back to [name name and address]12 0 51
Dispatch: additional information on the weapon (we have a transfer of ownership, dated (date) name, address)
Odle: five-one, can you ten-twenty-nine him?
Me: So you guys are now verifying my background as a result…
Lt. Dale: we don’t know your background
Me: well you’re verifying that there’s nothing preventing me from owning a weapon based on your 2nd check
Lt. Dale: what we’redoing is checking on the status of the weapon, we don’t know who you are yet. You haven’t identified yourself; if you had you would have been on your way.
Me: So because I failed to identify myself, this detainment is taking this long?
Lt. Dale: Its taking longer than it would, yeah.
Me: Alright. Do you mind if I give you some literature on this? I was asking if I could reach in my pocket and get this.
Lt. Dale: I think it’s been handed out. I think our officers have come in contact and this is some of the protocol we are working through right now I guess.
Me: this is taking longer than it should just to verify that my weapon is unloaded.
At this point my audio recorder stops recording by accident, the conversation did not last much longer than this. The length of this recording was 11 minutes, 16 seconds. The unrecorded section of this encounter was approximately 3-6 minutes.
Next is the complaint I sent in: (thanks for the help, you know who you are)
September 11 2009
To Whom It May Concern:
On the morning of September 11, 2009 I was unlawfully detained by several Sunnyvale police officers. I was contacted while a TASER gun was drawn and at the “alert” position, I was detained without reasonable articulable suspicion, I was frisked, and my property was seized on multiple occasions. Numerous Supreme Court Case Laws were violated as well as my constitutionally protected rights to be secure in my person and effects, and to be protected from unreasonable searches and seizures.
Two officers; Lt. Dale and Officer Odle, intentionally committed these unlawful actions. It is unfathomable that the Sunnyvale Police Department employs officers who have sworn to uphold the Constitution and fail to grasp the very basics of what our country has held to be the most important to its people.
California Penal Code 12031(e) states:
(e) In order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded for
the purpose of enforcing this section, peace officers are authorized
to examine any firearm carried by anyone on his or her person or in a
vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an
incorporated city or prohibited area of an unincorporated territory.
Refusal to allow a peace officer to inspect a firearm pursuant to
this section constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of
this section.
This statute does not allow for the serial number of the firearm in question to be run. It merely allows for a cursory check to see if the gun has a round in the chamber or any rounds in an inserted magazine. Any competent person familiar with firearms can perform this check in less than 10 seconds. By needlessly detaining me beyond the examination of my firearm, my person was unlawfully seized, a clear violation of the fourth amendment.
In Coolidge vs. New Hampshire, the Supreme Court explained when evidence which came in to "plain view" could be used. The court held that, "Under certain circumstances, the police may, without a warrant seize, evidence in 'plain view,' though not for that reason alone, and only when the discovery of the evidence is inadvertent." Your officers explained to me, in no uncertain terms, that they were seizing my firearm a second time for the sole purpose of running the serial numbers. This clearly violates the guidelines set out in Coolidge.
In a later case, Arizona vs. Hicks, the court put even stricter guidelines on the "plain view" doctrine. The Supreme Court ruling stated that, "Probable cause is required to invoke the 'plain view' doctrine as it applies to seizures." In my case, not only was there no probable cause, but there wasn't even reasonable suspicion. I explained to the officers in question that they were not within their rights to run the serial number of my sidearm, my complaints went unheard. These officers clearly have violated this guideline of the Supreme Court as well.
As you may know, California at one time had a "stop and identify" statute, but it was declared unconstitutionally vague in Kolender v. Lawson. Since that time citizens in California who are not operating a motor vehicle cannot be compelled to identify themselves. In Brown v. Texas, the Supreme Court held that, despite the fact that Texas had a stop and identify statute, "The application of the Texas statute to detain appellant and require him to identify himself violated the Fourth Amendment because the officers lacked any reasonable suspicion to believe that appellant was engaged or had engaged in criminal conduct." Once again, since these officers lacked reasonable suspicion, they violated this guideline of the Supreme Court.
When these officers searched me for weapons, they did so without having reasonable suspicion that I had or was about to commit a crime. In Terry vs. Ohio the Supreme Court ruled that a police officer could perform an exterior search of a person's clothes provided that the officer had reasonable articulable suspicion. Your officers searched me without reasonable suspicion, clearly violating the Supreme Court's guidelines.
These court rulings are not new or obscure; they are well-established and widely known. With the multitude of flagrant fourth amendment violations, I would undoubtedly prevail in a 42 USC 1983 complaint against these officers and the Sunnyvale Police Department. Without severe punishment against these officers, I fail to see how Sunnyvale Police Department can continue to perform its duties in an ethical manner. I am a lawful, peaceful citizen. I demand that steps be taken to prevent similar incidents from occurring in the future.
Sincerely,
[size=[font=Calibri][/font]][/size]
--------------------
so, today, 2 months and 2 days later, i get a response: (dont feel like scanning it, im gonna type it out)
Dear ------------------:
On September 11, 2209, you filed an inquiry concerning the policies and procedures of the City of Sunnyvale, Department of Public Safety. i have thoroughly reviewed the incident concerning your inquiry and found the officers were following the policies and procedures set in place at the time and tehre was no misconduct on their part.
Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention. The Department of Public Safety is committed to providing the highest quality police and fire services to our community. In order to be responsive to the needs of the community, citizens input is essential.
Should you have any questions regarding the inquiry and/or the subsequent findings, please feel free to contact my office at (408) 123-4567.
Sincerley,
blah
