The police know about this site and other sites like these.

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As Larry the Cable Guy would say, "even Ray Charles could see this."

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mark edward marchiafava wrote:

As Larry the Cable Guy would say, "even Ray Charles could see this."

Click to expand...

And "Ray Charles"can see that you've produced no evidence of your claims. Again...

Is there no moderator here??? Can people just make unsubstantiated statements all over the place and it's all well and good? It reflects poorly on this site and it’s well intentioned members.

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You're really not that stupid, are you?
If someone tells me the sun is hot, I don't need a 2,000 page thesis to prove it to me.

Either you're totally clueless or just trying to instigate, probably the latter.

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Peruse officer.com to see what cops think about us non-cops. Especially those of us who OC.

I'm not of the opinion that cops are "at war" with private citizens; war's too formal a description, nor do I think there's some sort of conspiracy among cops to get you.

Rather, what we see is a trend towards miltarization of police and increasing political power of the police/prison/security sector of the population, as more Americans defer to authority in matters of security and increasingly view taking personal responsibility as an act of paranoia.

The police are glamourized in TV shows and worshipped on the History Channel and among conservative and Republican circles, as well as liberal and Democrat circles, all of whom see the police as a force for achieving their goals of establishing order or enforcing taxes and regulations.

The police themselves continually get a free pass for almost every violent act they commit, even ones caught on video. When they are punished, it's often to a lesser extent than a private citizen, and then only after a long period of denial and secrecy by their superiors.

Despite all these obvious advantages and job security, we are constantly subject to endless whining about how hard their job is, how dangerous, and how little they are appreciated by the public. Any word spoken against them raises a storm of angry comments from people who feel the need to "give the police a fair shake".

With so many fans telling them how hard they have it, and how they "put their lives on the line for us everyday", it's no wonder that in their insular world they get this martyr complex.

Out-of-control use of tasers on little girls and others:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/1118091taser1.html

http://www.4029tv.com/news/21638427/detail.html

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2009/11/father_of_matthew_bolick_who_d.html

Seizing property without due process of law to buy new toys, and bragging about it:

http://www.detnews.com/article/20091112/METRO/911120388/Police-property-seizures-ensnare-even-the-innocent

Cops are liars, and brag about it:

http://officer.com/web/online/Investigation/Training-Cops-to-Lie---Pt-1/18$49343

And these are just some of the easy links I found. There are endless more where those came from. I'd like to see one flunkie from ociffer.com come up with as many links showing OCr's committing any crimes.

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That was amazing Tomahawk. Some jewels from the links:

An Arkansas cop tasered an unruly 10-year-old girl after her mother called police to report that the child was crying, screaming, and refusing to go to bed. The tased girl, Kiara Medlock, is about 65 pounds and 4' 6",The officer did shock the girl after he said she kicked him in the groin.



"He had no other choice. He had to get the child under control," said Ozark police Chief Jim Noggle.



Noggle said the officer shocked the girl for about a second.



Ozark police said it is their policy to use a Taser on someone who is a threat to others, no matter their age.

--------

The incident also was the first time any East Grand Rapids officer had used one of the Tasers, purchased in January, he said. Tasers fire electrically charged darts to temporarily immobilize a subject.

Asked when officers can use the device, Herald said: “They can deploy the Taser whenever there is active resistance.”

--------

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if the police were 'at war' with mark, then mark would have lost a LONG time ago.

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georg jetson wrote:

mark edward marchiafava wrote:

The police don't just ACT like they are at war with us, they ARE at war with us.
The sooner OC'ers (and everyone else) realizes this cold, hard fact, the sooner
REAL change occurs.

Picking up litter? LOL, how totally absurd.

Click to expand...

If you would offer some proof of this, then perhaps a realization would occur.

Click to expand...

War: :[/b] a state of hostility, conflict, or antagonism

I would say that any officer who arrests or detains you because you are OC'ing know that it's legal but doesn't like it would qualify as WAR. (as per definition)

If an officer says, "I don't care if it's legal" would be causing hostility, conflict and be antagonistic.

If you read posts by LEO's on here and their own forums, you might would see this and realize you're prodding for no reason.

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rmansu2 wrote:

georg jetson wrote:

mark edward marchiafava wrote:

The police don't just ACT like they are at war with us, they ARE at war with us.
The sooner OC'ers (and everyone else) realizes this cold, hard fact, the sooner
REAL change occurs.

Picking up litter? LOL,  how totally absurd.

Click to expand...

If you would offer some proof of this, then perhaps a realization would occur.

Click to expand...

War:    :[/b] a state of hostility, conflict, or antagonism

I would say that any officer who arrests or detains you because you are OC'ing know that it's legal but doesn't like it would qualify as WAR. (as per definition)

If an officer says, "I don't care if it's legal" would be causing hostility, conflict and be antagonistic.

If you read posts by LEO's on here and their own forums, you might would see this and realize you're prodding for no reason.

Click to expand...

i think that would fit some people here too?

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Statesman wrote:

SNIP I liked the SCOTUS citation:

"And confessions "are a good thing." Just ask the Supreme Court:

Admissions of guilt are more than merely 'desirable,' they are essential to society's compelling interest in finding, convicting and punishing those who violate the law. - Schneckloth v. Bustamonte, 412 U.S. 218, 225 (1973).​

Click to expand...

I think the court may have revealed more than they might have liked or realized.

If confessions are "essential", then all most offenders need do is not confess.

Police need confessions seems to be the hidden revelation.

Ifplenty of criminals are not-confessing, then its no wonder police bend and break the4th Amendment (search and seizure) so much. Its their only hope of gettingarrests. (sarcasm)

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Tomahawk wrote:

Peruse officer.com to see what cops think about us non-cops. Especially those of us who OC.

I'm not of the opinion that cops are "at war" with private citizens; war's too formal a description, nor do I think there's some sort of conspiracy among cops to get you.

Rather, what we see is a trend towards miltarization of police and increasing political power of the police/prison/security sector of the population, as more Americans defer to authority in matters of security and increasingly view taking personal responsibility as an act of paranoia.

The police are glamourized in TV shows and worshipped on the History Channel and among conservative and Republican circles, as well as liberal and Democrat circles, all of whom see the police as a force for achieving their goals of establishing order or enforcing taxes and regulations.

The police themselves continually get a free pass for almost every violent act they commit, even ones caught on video. When they are punished, it's often to a lesser extent than a private citizen, and then only after a long period of denial and secrecy by their superiors.

Despite all these obvious advantages and job security, we are constantly subject to endless whining about how hard their job is, how dangerous, and how little they are appreciated by the public. Any word spoken against them raises a storm of angry comments from people who feel the need to "give the police a fair shake".

With so many fans telling them how hard they have it, and how they "put their lives on the line for us everyday", it's no wonder that in their insular world they get this martyr complex.

Out-of-control use of tasers on little girls and others:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/1118091taser1.html

http://www.4029tv.com/news/21638427/detail.html

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2009/11/father_of_matthew_bolick_who_d.html

Seizing property without due process of law to buy new toys, and bragging about it:

http://www.detnews.com/article/20091112/METRO/911120388/Police-property-seizures-ensnare-even-the-innocent

Cops are liars, and brag about it:

http://officer.com/web/online/Investigation/Training-Cops-to-Lie---Pt-1/18$49343

And these are just some of the easy links I found. There are endless more where those came from. I'd like to see one flunkie from ociffer.com come up with as many links showing OCr's committing any crimes.

Click to expand...

Bravo....good job.

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McX wrote:

So, If I go about my life, mind my own business, be polite and courteous to everyone I meet, go out in public, and spend money. That's normal life. Now if I do the same Open Carrying......that's baiting?!

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according to the po po it is. most cops are ignorant to the various laws that give us the legal right to open carry & the fact that in most states / areas , open carry is perfectly legal & because they think they should be the only ones carrying guns ...they like to put the screws to those that Open Carry, they will show us lowly subjects that they can make up the law as they go. Eventually enough Police dept will get sued, a bunch of cops will be fired for violating various peoples rights, etc.

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants[font="'Comic Sans MS', cursive"] , Thomas Jefferson[/font]

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Gotta say it.

This thread is the closest to cop bashing I have read on OCDO in a long time.

Even though I have personally had a few "incidents," I find that most LEOs are informed and cognizant of our rights. Many support us, at least this is true in Va.

IMO derogatory descriptions that generally categorize LEOs in demeaning terms to not be in accordance with either the rules or spirit of OCDO.

Yata hey

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Grapeshot wrote:

Gotta say it.

This thread is the closest to cop bashing I have read on OCDO in a long time.

Even though I have personally had a few "incidents," I find that most LEOs are informed and cognizant of our rights. Many support us, at least this is true in Va.

IMO derogatory descriptions that generally categorize LEOs in demeaning terms to not be in accordance with either the rules or spirit of OCDO.

Yata hey

Click to expand...

"Cops" are not being bashed. Criminals--those who commit a crime by knowingly or otherwise breaking the law"hiding behind badges are.

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Well, it would seem to me that the best solution all the way around would be for the cops to QUIT TAKING THE BAIT.
How many times do they have to be sued to understand that OC is legal absent some kind of dangerous conduct?

Me thinks this is a case of cops whining because they are so stupid they KEEP taking the same bait over and over.











.

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Gunslinger wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

Gotta say it.

This thread is the closest to cop bashing I have read on OCDO in a long time.

Even though I have personally had a few "incidents," I find that most LEOs are informed and cognizant of our rights. Many support us, at least this is true in Va.

IMO derogatory descriptions that generally categorize LEOs in demeaning terms to not be in accordance with either the rules or spirit of OCDO.

Yata hey

Click to expand...

"Cops" are not being bashed. Criminals--those who commit a crime by knowingly or otherwise breaking the law"hiding behind badges are.

Click to expand...

+1

A good question might be, "Behind how many badges is the single cop-perpetrator hiding?"

I have long pointed out that the Blue Wall of Silence indicts other LEOs who tolerate and stand mute. The silent onescan't think much of people's rights if they won't speak up against badged perps.

Asked a different way, "How can some police commit their misdeeds in the serene knowledge that nobody among their peers will publicly object?"

(That last wasn't entirely my question. It was suggested to me here:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/grigg/grigg-w120.html

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Grapeshot wrote:

Gotta say it.

This thread is the closest to cop bashing I have read on OCDO in a long time.

Even though I have personally had a few "incidents,"  I find that most LEOs are informed and cognizant of our rights.  Many support us, at least this is true in Va.

IMO derogatory descriptions that generally categorize LEOs in demeaning terms to not be in accordance with either the rules or spirit of OCDO.

       Yata hey

Click to expand...

Let's be realistic. I was raised to respect the institution of policing. I learned otherwise only through real life experience.

I would love to be able to feel that sense of civic benefit that I used to see police with. I truly would.

And I deeply respect those officers who manage to perform what I would consider to be a civic service, in spite of all the negative incentives.

But, to pretend that it's "only a few bad apples", is to put one's head in the sand, and ignore the entire system of negative incentives that drive the wrong people to be cops, and the good people who are to behave the wrong way.

Ignoring it because it "comes close to cop-bashing" is just another symptom of head-in-the-sand syndrome (HITSS).

We're never going to get the beloved Officer Friendly back by pretending that the problem with modern, militarized police is nothing more than the actions of a few rotten individuals.

There are systematic problems, very serious ones, which need to be addressed.

Tomahawk said it about as well as it could be:

Rather, what we see is a trend towards miltarization of police and increasing political power of the police/prison/security sector of the population, as more Americans defer to authority in matters of security and increasingly view taking personal responsibility as an act of paranoia.

The police are glamourized in TV shows and worshipped on the History Channel and among conservative and Republican circles, as well as liberal and Democrat circles, all of whom see the police as a force for achieving their goals of establishing order or enforcing taxes and regulations.

The police themselves continually get a free pass for almost every violent act they commit, even ones caught on video. When they are punished, it's often to a lesser extent than a private citizen, and then only after a long period of denial and secrecy by their superiors.

Despite all these obvious advantages and job security, we are constantly subject to endless whining about how hard their job is, how dangerous, and how little they are appreciated by the public. Any word spoken against them raises a storm of angry comments from people who feel the need to "give the police a fair shake".

With so many fans telling them how hard they have it, and how they "put their lives on the line for us everyday", it's no wonder that in their insular world they get this martyr complex.

Click to expand...

This represents the reality I've lived in my whole life (although not the fantasy I was raised with). It also represents the views of basically every American I know, except (for some reason) a large proportion of the membership of this very forum. (With the caveat that most Americans glamorize TV show cops and view personal responsibility for security as an act of paranoia, even those who otherwise would agree with what Tomahawk said)..

When you think about the institution (there are more similarities between cops in NoVA and NorCal than we'd all like to admit), you must recognize that a few cops in a few places being respectful of gun rights does not reflect the slew of other rights which are institutionally violated on a regular basis, usually in compliance with some extant but unconstitutional local law.

Saying "most police respect rights" because the majority of police in NoVA respect gun rights, does not reflect reality. Even in NoVA, I've had my fourth amendment rights violated (here in CA too). That is not the treatment due an equal citizen. And forget rights which are not enumerated by the bill of rights, but are equally not a power given to government to infringe upon (the right to medical freedom, including the right to use whatever drugs one sees fit). Those rights don't exist in Virginia, even though they are as real as the RKBA.

Now, the FCPD may be a basket of generally less-rotten apples, that doesn't change the systematic pro-law, anti-rights bias. Law and rights should be viewed as essential elements of one another, not opposing forces. How many cops really behave as though they truly believe that?

Edit: Thanks for the correction, Citizen. Typo city, today. :lol: Hopefully that did it. Corrections throughout.

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marshaul wrote:

SNIP Law and rights should be view[ed] as essentially elements of one another, not opposing forces.

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+100

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Grapeshot wrote:

Gotta say it.

This thread is the closest to cop bashing I have read on OCDO in a long time.

Even though I have personally had a few "incidents," I find that most LEOs are informed and cognizant of our rights. Many support us, at least this is true in Va.

IMO derogatory descriptions that generally categorize LEOs in demeaning terms to not be in accordance with either the rules or spirit of OCDO.

Yata hey

Click to expand...

I've had the same experience in my neck of the woods, Grapeshot. The local Sherrifs deputy's, TN SP don't seem to have any problem what-so-ever with citizens OC'ing. Not that allot of us do it. The officers that I've talked to fully understand that BG's don't go around with their guns hanging on their hip for all to see.

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i had a cop buddy of mine one time tell me that most people were spoiled, selfish, non personal responsibility having idiots. i told him i thought he was an ass, and that wasnt true. he said "you paint me with a broad brush", i can paint you too.....

just something i try and keep in my head.