Carrying a backup firearm

imported post

Although most of my friends and family "tolerate" me OCing, I'm getting a lot of grief for carrying a backup gun. I just recently purchased a P11 to conceal as backup while OCing. Now I'm hearing, why do you need two guns, that's just rediculous, that's more than paranoid, etc etc etc. I tried relating it to why would you carry two pens? In case one doesn't work of course. Except instead of me not being able to sign my name I might die. What are your opinions and do you carry a backup?

imported post

I think it is perfectly fine. It is your life and therefore it is your choice. I carry a wide array of weapons and some people I'm sure would consider it paranoid of me. Again, it is my life and safety and therefore my choice. I will often carry a pistol, knife, taser, and pepperspray all at once. While I don't carry a backup pistol, I still have a backup something and all of these tools certainly are useful in a variety of situations.

imported post

I have asked this question at a couple OC dinners and gotten different answers. My favorite answer was from ccloud43 when I asked if he had a BUG, he pointed to his wife who was OC-ing sitting next to him at the table.

Some people prefer to carry extra mags. I prefer to simply have a second gun. I OC on my hip and CC in my pocket. Both are the same caliber (45acp). I sometimes carry an extra mag.

If I had higher capacity magazines I might consider not having a BUG but since my Sig & 1911 only have 8 in the mags a BUG gives me additional ammo. I have read stories where 22 or more shots are fired before the attack is stopped which gives me the choice to be swapping mags during a fight or simply grabbing my BUG. Also Murphy's law of a gunfight is you will jam when it is the worst possible time.

You could probably make an argument that mags on a primary gun are better since accuracy from the larger gun is probably better. I don't trust myself to be changing mags in a firefight yet.

One other thing a BUG gives you is if you have your wife with you, you can give her a gun to use to protect herself. Giving her onlya magazine doesn't helpmuch. So sharing guns during a fight may be something worthwhile. I haven't seen it mentioned yet in any threads I have read but it makes sense to me.

imported post

There are several good reasons to carry more than one gun.

-Any gun can stop working at any time for any reason and fixing it to where it will work again may take too much time... especially if it quits working when you need it the most. Drawing another gun that works can be much faster than messing around trying to clear a malfunction.

-A spare gun is also extra ammo in a spare magazine... just already immediately available for use. And it is ready to use without having the possibility of not getting the magazine into the gun correctly since it is already in the "extra" gun.

-If the primary gun is a revolver it is much faster and easier to just bring out a spare gun than it is to try to reload. Actually, for some of us, that holds true if the primary gun is a semi auto too.

-A spare gun can be carried on the "weak" side opposite the "strong" side where the regular gun is carried making a gun accessible to either hand.. or, another way to look at that is, whichever hand is available has a gun available. You might only have one hand free and there is no guarantee that it will be your strong hand.

-Some circumstances make getting to the primary gun very difficult and/or slow but a second gun carried in a different place on the body can be very accessible. For example... driver's seat belt interferes with right hip carry too much for me to reliably draw from there so another gun carried in a shoulder holster that is easily accessible even when using a seat belt solves that problem.

-Those who ridicule the choices that other people make are fools who think they are the only ones who have the "one true grail". I've heard all the idiotic arguments against carrying a second (or even a third) gun and... at least to me.. those arguments sound exactly like the arguments the anti gun folks use to ridicule carrying even one gun.

I generally carry 3 guns... because no matter how I'm sitting/standing/laying or which hand is free there is at least one gun I can get to and use. Plus those 3 guns give me what I consider a reasonable number of rounds to respond with... and I personally suck at reliably changing magazines under stress (much more reliable and faster for me to just grab another gun than to change a magazine or try to clear a gun stoppage/malfunction under stress).

So... please make your own choices based upon what works best for you in your circumstances/criteria/life style/strengths/weaknesses/handicaps and ignore anyone who tries to tell you what to do.

imported post

IMHO, the operative word here is BACKUP ... as in not the primary, in case something goes wrong, just in case ...

Maybe the next time the topic comes up, you can simply say, "This topic is NOT open for discussion. You have made your opinions clear, and I hope I have made mine as clear."

imported post

I carry a bug in the form of a PA63 in my ankle holster. Very comfortable with that.:dude:

imported post

I'm also looking into getting an ankle holster for when I'm eventually rich and can buy a *SECOND* handgun. I know, I dream big...

imported post

It's getting to the point where I'll be carrying a BUG at work in addition to my primary. I don't have the money to get anything smaller atm so it looks like my BUG is gonna be a 5" 1911. Thankfully it has an aluminum frame so that will cut down on weight.

imported post

I don't carry a BUG myselfbut I wouldn't necessarily consider it paranoid and certainly wouldn't tell others not to do it. I see a benefit but it's just more trouble than it's worth for me.

I also don't normally carry a spare mag. I go by the FBI (i think) rule of 3 - most of gunfights have3 or lesspeople participating, and resolve in 3 minutes orlesswith 3 orlessrounds fired. Right now I carry a Beretta M9 with 15 round magazine and I think it's plenty of ammo for the everyday life. But before, I havecarried a 7 shot 1911 and even a 5 shot revolver without any spare ammo.

The only time when I do take extra mags and/or a BUG is when I go to a remote and/or unknown areas. For examle when I stay in a cabin in the woods, I normally have another 15 round mag on my belt, a BUG with a 10 rounds mag (no spares) and couple of boxes of ammo in a back pack. BUG normally just rides in the car while the primary stays on the hip and I may or may not take it with me when I leave the car for a short period of time, depending on location and situation.

However, I docarry 1 or 2 cans of Fox Labs 5.3 pepper spray, not so much for back up but mostly for options. I feel that it my come in handy in case of a conforntation in which I wouldn'tfeel thatI'm justifiedin use ofdeadly force, but wouldn't mind an extra non-lethal tool to cool off the attacker. Also, it might help to defuse a situation before it gets tothe point of deadly force necessity.At the end of the day, I really don't want to kill anyone so it gives me options.

I do hovewer realizethat deploying a non-lethal response in a qucikly escalating confrontation might cost me valuable seconds to react appropriately if and when the situation reaches the level when use of deadly force would be the only option. That's why I always carry the pepper spray on my weak side (sometimes in a designated pouch, sometimes just in a jacket pocket) and train to deploy it with a weak hand even if the strong one is availiable. That gives me a chance to quickly use the firearm if the situatioun changes for worse very quickly.

imported post

Carrying a backup gun, I think, is perfectly fine.

Especially if you have one that is OC (your deterrent) and a backup in the case that which ever one you pull (the open or the concealed), if you run out of bullets and need more and don't want to/can't reload or if the primary malfunctions, you have another gun to go to. Nothing wrong at all with this. You may even have an OC that get's separated from you somehow (taken, dislodged, etc, etc). Chances are you may still have your backup to go to.

I find two guns on one person no less safe (as long as they responsibly secure each individually) than one gun. With that said, it is a personal preference and one I am not against. Now three guns may or may not be pushing it, I can understand if someone wants to carry three five-shot revolvers instead of just one or two but anything with higher capacity than that and/or more than three gets a little paranoid for my taste.

imported post

GlockMeisterG21 wrote:

It's getting to the point where I'll be carrying a BUG at work in addition to my primary. I don't have the money to get anything smaller atm so it looks like my BUG is gonna be a 5" 1911. Thankfully it has an aluminum frame so that will cut down on weight.

Click to expand...

I just wish I could afford a 1911. lol. Do you OC at work? That's another thing I like about this little P11, is that I can now carry a gun on my person at work and keep my 40 cal in the laptop case. Carrying it in my bag was the only option for a while because my boss doesn't want me OCing while going to people's homes and businesses (understandable with all of the yuppies here in Charlottesville, VA). And seeing as how I'm at thin as a pole it was hard for me to conceal unless it was winter and I could wear a coat.

imported post

proud_to_serveUSAF wrote:

GlockMeisterG21 wrote:

It's getting to the point where I'll be carrying a BUG at work in addition to my primary. I don't have the money to get anything smaller atm so it looks like my BUG is gonna be a 5" 1911. Thankfully it has an aluminum frame so that will cut down on weight.

Click to expand...

I just wish I could afford a 1911.

Click to expand...

Armscor Rock Island 1911-A1

Depending on where you go, you can pick one up for less than $400 or less than $500, practically brand new.

imported post

proud_to_serveUSAF wrote:

GlockMeisterG21 wrote:

It's getting to the point where I'll be carrying a BUG at work in addition to my primary. I don't have the money to get anything smaller atm so it looks like my BUG is gonna be a 5" 1911. Thankfully it has an aluminum frame so that will cut down on weight.

Click to expand...

I just wish I could afford a 1911. lol. Do you OC at work? That's another thing I like about this little P11, is that I can now carry a gun on my person at work and keep my 40 cal in the laptop case. Carrying it in my bag was the only option for a while because my boss doesn't want me OCing while going to people's homes and businesses (understandable with all of the yuppies here in Charlottesville, VA). And seeing as how I'm at thin as a pole it was hard for me to conceal unless it was winter and I could wear a coat.

Click to expand...

Yea, I OC at work. It's already prevented one robbery that I know of. At this point I'm carrying my Sig Sauer 226 Blackwater Tactical as my primary (due to the 20+1 rnds of +P+ 9mm it has) and will have my Kimber as a concealed BUG. I just need to figure out placement. I'm thinking about having my primary at 3 o'clock and my BUG at 4 o'clock. This way if I get a weird vibe from customers I can place my hand on my BUG and it will look like I'm just resting my hand back there.

imported post

I find the knowledge that while the BG if trying to grab the holstered gun, my
other hand is free to pull the bug and plug him. The CC bug is to protect the OC pistol.
It does suck that you can't be sterile carry that way, but you go with what works.
Have never CC'd two, and don't have matching ones to OC two either.

imported post

Back in January when I took my CC class the instructor said" when carrying your gun it's always good to carry extra mags. One is good two is better. The same goes with guns. One is good,pulling his primary from strong side, two is better, pulling his BUG from his weak side pocket and three is best, leading us to believe he had an ankle rig.
On another note. At this same class when the subject came up about getting pulled over. I asked "Having a gun in the car do I give up my right against searches?" Everyone looked at me like I was crazy. With one of the "older" guys saying "that could end all bad." and by older I mean in his forty's with me being 38 at the time.:quirky

imported post

New York reload - says it all. Beats the time of any push, pull, click-click.

Yata hey

imported post

Nobody would make think it odd if you carried
2 inhalers
2 epi-pins
2 cell phones.

You know, any time someone asks me why I carry 2 phones, I respond
"Ones pre-paid." They usually respond "oh, ok" in a tone of voice like it
makes sense, then you can watch their face change as they wonder why
you need a drop phone. But they wont ask because they're afraid of looking
stupid because they originally acted like they got it.:dude:

Next time someone asks why you carry two just say:
"One isn't mine"
"One is in air quotes"
"You wouldn't ask Bruce Willis that question.":celebrate

"One is unregistered"

"One is not loaded"

"I emptied one and didn't have time to refill it so I grabbed a disposable one."

"One is for personal use."

"They're only one time use guns"

"This one's actually a spare magazine holder."
"One is a lighter." which one? "I'd show you but I forgot which ones real":what:

"One is my kids, I took it away cause he's in time-out"."

"These are trophy guns I took from people foolish enough to try and shoot me, kinda
like scalps on an Indians belt."

"I don't carry a gun"

"Because guns kill people"

"They're litter mates and get grouchy when I leave one or the other at home."

"Just in case I get the opportunity to pull off the classic 'slide your spare gun to the pinned down good guy' like in the movies"

"Well, this one time, at band camp, (just walk away like that answers everything)"

"because Elliot from Law and Order : SVU does"

"It's the right to bear arms, not the right to bear an arm."

"silly rabbit, trixs are for kids who weren't hugged and became prostitutes."(walk away)

"I have to stop by the bank later today."

"One shoots Silver bullets for werewolves, the other wooden stakes for vampires."
if someone asks what if a human attacks you, say "I do not fear cattle":uhoh:



or for a REAL answer:
"If I ever , god forbid, have to use one in self defense, I don't want to be left defenseless when the cops take my gun to run ballistics on it. Especially at a
time when some of the criminal's associates may be looking to take revenge
on me." :banghead:

imported post

i love the list of excuses. even though i probably could've used them up in this last week. lol. might have to use those sometime.

imported post

simmonsjoe wrote:

Next time someone asks why you carry two just say:

Click to expand...

"One is a conversation piece."

"I need equilibrium."

"Because it is symbolic, one is named Veritas, the other, Equitas.

"I might run into a pissed off Bruce Willis."

"I just found one next to some dead guy."

"I'm disposing of one for somebody."

"I have TWO?!"

imported post

When I first got my permit I thought i'd never carry. Now i've been carrying every day for the last 3 years.

When I first started carrying I heard of people carrying back up guns and thought that was over the top and that i'd never do that.

Now I carry my .40 Sig P229 on my strong side hip, two extra .40 magazines on my weak side hip, and a .380 Sig P238 in an ankle holster :lol:

I don't feel like it's paranoid at all. Better safe then sorry IMO. If you can do it comfortably, why not?

The previous posts sum up the pros of BUG carry very well so I won't go into detail, but I just feel much safer knowing that I have a back up incase anything goes wrong with my primary firearm.We carry for protection, so why not be fully prepared. I feelthat having a BUG gives you that much more safety in case the need arises to defend yourself or others.

It's like a car for example: They have seat belts so why have airbags too? It's just one more tool to keep you as safe as possible in case of an emergency.