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NO GUNS ALLOWED at Waterside???

MSC 45ACP

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I recovered sufficiently from last night's fall down stairs to go to the range for a littlewhile today. Shot until I was sufficiently sore and then departed. Bridget wanted to go to MacArthur, but I was pretty sure they were anti-gun so we went to Waterside where I knew everyone had been to Hooters several times after entertaining the Norfolk City Council or other business downtown.

We actually stopped to read the VERY small print of the "rules" posted to the right of the doors you enter through when coming from the parking garage. Near the bottom, Bridget read "No Firearms".

I was simply :what:at the thought, but we entered anyway. We passed several unarmed security guards and they didn't even notice we were BOTH OCing. I asked how "noticeable" my new Kimber was and she said "VERY!" We walked around inside, then outside to see the boats. I was also very interested to see a new sign posted in the bushes in front (waterfront side)of Watersidethat declared the outside areas a "park" that was open from sunrise to sunset. I laughed out loud at their feeble attempt to cut down on the crime rate. How creative! Take the victims out of the picture and you have no more crime! Brilliant!



Going off on a tangent...
OT: That's as entertaining Military Circle Mall security morons harassing me for using a WALKING STICK! While visiting there about a year ago, a MallPutz-SecurityClownconfronted me about "carrying a weapon". Since I had installed a "cane tip" to prevent it from slipping, he took my word that I was disabled. I went on to describe mycar that was parked close to the doors in a disabled parking spot and then asked himif he had any doubts about my status.

This is the same place that has had more shootouts than the OK Corral, but they want to take a walking stick away from a disabled white man?

I guess if my trousers had been hanging past my buttocks with circus-colored boxer shortsclearly visible in their entiretyand a "nine-milly" tucked somewhere I can't even bring myself to thinking about;
I would have been allowed to walk through the mall with 10 of myHomeys in the middle of the day, the middle of the week,wearing jewelry valuedmore than my .45 caliber pistol collection completely unmolested...

Its 11am in the middle of the week... D you know where your school-aged children are???

Still OT: Want an education and some cheap entertainment at the same time? If you can go during the day (or at night if you bring Craig), visit Military Circle. Definitely don't go unarmed. You'll be outgunned regardless, but you have a better chance of encountering fewer scumbags. This is an OC board, but I would recommend CCing all the way on this field trip. You need the COMPLETE experience of the whole place. It istruly an interesting sociological experience.

I'm game for the trip anytime. Send me a PM and let's go there for lunch!!!
 

skidmark

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AFAIK Waterside and the City Council know quite well that they cannot ban guns from Waterside. My guess is that nobody has scraped the paint off the window since the court hearing. I'll admit that the last time I was at Waterside I did not bother looking to see if there was any "no guns" language because I knew that issue had been settled.

It might be instructive to have a date-stamped picture sent tp the City Attorney with a request to fix it ASAP - maybe with a reminder that if it becomes necessary to go to court the City will have to pay the winner's legal expenses.

stay safe.

skidmark
 

MSC 45ACP

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skidmark wrote:
AFAIK Waterside and the City Council know quite well that they cannot ban guns from Waterside. My guess is that nobody has scraped the paint off the window since the court hearing. I'll admit that the last time I was at Waterside I did not bother looking to see if there was any "no guns" language because I knew that issue had been settled.

It might be instructive to have a date-stamped picture sent tp the City Attorney with a request to fix it ASAP - maybe with a reminder that if it becomes necessary to go to court the City will have to pay the winner's legal expenses.

stay safe.

skidmark

Skid? You mean to say I can win the NORFOLK OC LOTTERY???
I thought that game was declared "over", too.
I'll try to get a pic of the signage. it looked NEW, though.
I really was suprised to see it there.

Mike
 

darthmord

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I just might have to swing by there later this week to check that sign out. Like others, I was not looking for signs after the recent Norfolk City Council meeting as I had also assumed the problem was resolved.

At any rate, the NPD inside paid us very little heed for the duration our large party was at Hooters. A couple of them merely nodded and went on about their business.
 

Thundar

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MSC 45ACP wrote:
We actually stopped to read the VERY small print of the "rules" posted to the right of the doors you enter through when coming from the parking garage. Near the bottom, Bridget read "No Firearms".

HeHeHe

Is Norfolk still a target rich environment for a gun rights activist?
 

TFred

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MSC 45ACP wrote:
skidmark wrote:
AFAIK Waterside and the City Council know quite well that they cannot ban guns from Waterside. My guess is that nobody has scraped the paint off the window since the court hearing. I'll admit that the last time I was at Waterside I did not bother looking to see if there was any "no guns" language because I knew that issue had been settled.

It might be instructive to have a date-stamped picture sent tp the City Attorney with a request to fix it ASAP - maybe with a reminder that if it becomes necessary to go to court the City will have to pay the winner's legal expenses.

stay safe.

skidmark
Skid? You mean to say I can win the NORFOLK OC LOTTERY???
I thought that game was declared "over", too.
I'll try to get a pic of the signage. it looked NEW, though.
I really was suprised to see it there.

Mike
I don't think there is any OC Lottery to be won. The law says the courts may award your attorney fees and costs (that's not a quote), but nothing about punitive damages. And the court is not required to even do that.

I think we've seen good results from simply informing the local jurisdiction that they are in violation and are exposed to additional expense if they choose to ignore it.

Having said all that however, it is quite disturbing that Norfolk seems to be particularly hard-headed on this matter. Unfortunately, the law does not provide any bigger hammers for us to use, that I know of.

TFred
 

skidmark

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there actually may be a "Norfolk OC Lottery" - just need to look a little further into the forest.

Norfolk is on notice that it cannot restrict the carry of firearms. If the sign is up at Waterside and IF a cop attempted to enforce the signage, it could qualify as a Federal 1983 suit (violation of rights under color of law). I am not suggesting that anyone try to entice a Norfolk cop to arrest someone OCing at Waterside, but I have faith that there is at least one officer who would screw the pooch.

Getting back to the state law issue, my opinion is that the Norfolk Circuit Court judge who hears a case against the city would be inclined to award fees based on the fact that the City surely seemed to be in contempt of the lower court's ruling by either allowing the sign to remain or adding it at some later date (whichever the case may be).

I agree the first step should be to go to the City Attorney and inform him of the problem. (Be sure to go there OCing.:lol:)

stay safe.

skidmark
 

Thundar

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skidmark wrote:
I agree the first step should be to go to the City Attorney and inform him of the problem. (Be sure to go there OCing.:lol:)

Now why do you want to get Fishy to soil his panties? He has been bruised pretty badly by all of his failed attempts to violate our rights.:celebrate

Can't we all just get along?:D
 

MSC 45ACP

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MSC 45ACP wrote:
I don't have any plans tomorrow. Maybe if I can find his office, I'll go see the Norfolk City Atty and share my feelings with him.

Got off phone with Norfolk City Attorney's office. Spoke to a lawyer there that told me Waterside is owned and operated by private entities. I told him I was pretty sure the city had a part of it and he kept to his party song, but added a new line: Down the "lineage" of owners is the "Housing Authority". I asked if they were a city or state organization orfunded by either of those. He just sang the same song.

Doesn't having the "Housing Authority" as an owner make it PUBLIC property? he kept insisting it was PRIVATELY Owned. If it is privately owned, WHY do they have CITY COPS there?

I didn't think they could have it "both ways"...
 

ODA 226

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TFred wrote:
I thought this was already settled when Danbus was acquitted of his trespass charge.

TFred
It was...but as the warden in "Cool Hand Luke" said," Some men you just can't reach..."
 

darthmord

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MSC 45ACP wrote:
MSC 45ACP wrote:
I don't have any plans tomorrow. Maybe if I can find his office, I'll go see the Norfolk City Atty and share my feelings with him.

Got off phone with Norfolk City Attorney's office. Spoke to a lawyer there that told me Waterside is owned and operated by private entities. I told him I was pretty sure the city had a part of it and he kept to his party song, but added a new line: Down the "lineage" of owners is the "Housing Authority". I asked if they were a city or state organization orfunded by either of those. He just sang the same song.

Doesn't having the "Housing Authority" as an owner make it PUBLIC property? he kept insisting it was PRIVATELY Owned. If it is privately owned, WHY do they have CITY COPS there?

I didn't think they could have it "both ways"...
It was settled with Danbus. Waterside is publicly owned. The Housing Authority was determined to be a political subdivision of the City of Norfolk and therefore, subject to pre-emption.

For those that will ask... the links to that info are in the past on this very forum; merely a simple search away as it were.
 

TFred

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TFred

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Here's the text. It's only been nine months... do they think we're just going to forget something like this?

TFred



Abbreviations used in VA-ALERT: http://www.vcdl.org/help/abbr.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Big Win for Gun Owners! 2/10/09

I just got the word - Danladi Moore, who was arrested for trespass by
a Norfolk police officer last August while Danladi was lawfully open
carrying at Norfolk's Waterside Mall, has just won his case in court!

The judge told the Norfolk City Attorney that because of the City's
financial interest in the mall, the mall is considered PUBLIC property
and Danladi was therefore NOT trespassing. All charges are to be
dropped.

Well, well - another most deserved lesson to City Attorney Bernard
Pishko on not harassing law-abiding gun owners.

Pishko was hell-bent on prosecuting Danladi Moore to teach him a
lesson because Danladi had challenged Norfolk's authority in a
previous harassment case and won a $10,000 settlement.

Hopefully Dan can now sue the pants off Norfolk AGAIN!

I wonder how much this latest blunder is going to cost Norfolk?
Perhaps another zero on the end of the previous settlement?

Go get 'em, Danladi! ;-)

We are attempting to get the transcript of the ruling as it could have
much bigger implications for other such government-owned venues across
the state.

-------------------------------------------
***********************************************
 

DonTreadOnMe

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Well, I headed out to waterside tonight.

I had dinner with family and friends. Two of us opencarried. We sat in the common area for a wile and then had a meal at hooters. I am sure I was seen by security, if they missed the HK45 they need a new job. No comment, no hard, looks nothing...

That said, there are new signs up! On the long list of rules there is this one about two thirds the way down:

"possession of a weapon, even if legally carried except by law enforcement personnel"

Pic taken, but not sure how to upload it. If someone knows how and will post it for me I would be happy to picture text the message to them.

I am guessing they know the signs are wrong and know they cant enforce it, but are betting it will dissuade some from exercising there rights.

I am undecided what the next step should be, but the signs need to go!
 
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