Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: How to argue OC with CPL holders

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Clio, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    363

    Post imported post

    I have had a couple encounters with other CPL holders that i have had a hard time convincing/argue the point of OC. i was just hoping to get some feedback from some people on this forum.

    I have had a coupleCPL holdersargue thatit says "concealed" so it has to be "concealed", and my response is usually that if the only way i could open carry is without a CPL then i would never have got one in the first place and point out that there are certain places that youcan't OC without a CPL.

    Just having a hard time winning these arguments and was wondering some of the wisdom from some of the people on this forum.

    Devery

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Clinton Township, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    93

    Post imported post

    Trying to win an argument with close-minded people is usually a waste of time, especially when the CPL instructor tells them wrong. I tell people that the CPL just gives me another option in my mehods of carry. It is NOT mandatory and if that's what they were taught ...it's wrong.The State police will verify it if you can get them to make the call.Good Luck.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mulligan's Valley
    Posts
    4,830

    Post imported post

    Just ask them to show you the law. Tell them opinions and hearsay don't count.

    There is no such law, so if that doesn't get such people to shut up, they're probably so stupid that they aren't worth wasting time talking to.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Not on this website, USA
    Posts
    2,482

    Post imported post

    Michigander wrote:
    Just ask them to show you the law. Tell them opinions and hearsay don't count.

    There is no such law, so if that doesn't get such people to shut up, they're probably so stupid that they aren't worth wasting time talking to.
    +1

    Best answer you could give!

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Central KY
    Posts
    917

    Post imported post

    Next time you go to the range with them, tell them, "Whoa, whoa, what are you doing? The **** thing says "concealed", you need to put that away." Simply said, a conceal-carry license has no relevance to shooting at the range, and it has no relevance to OC. It's called a CC license because it only pertains to CC.

    It seems so obvious to us, doesn't it? If they have an ounce of logic, they'll see it too.

  6. #6
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    West Bloomfield, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,937

    Post imported post

    Michigander wrote:
    Just ask them to show you the law. Tell them opinions and hearsay don't count.
    Also,tell them you are willing totransfer your gun to them if you are wrongif they are willing to transfer their gun to you if you are right. If they refuse, tell them that's what you thought. If they accept, congrats you got a gun!
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    ďHe who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.Ē--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Clio, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    363

    Post imported post

    DanM wrote:

    Also,tell them you are willing totransfer your gun to them if you are wrongif they are willing to transfer their gun to you if you are right. If they refuse, tell them that's what you thought. If they accept, congrats you got a gun!

    LOL, this is the kind of thing i was hoping to get out of this topic. i get too strung up on facts and what have you to get comfortable enough to make it easy to argue this topic.

    keep them coming, i am meeting up with a couple people i am trying to convince in the next couple days


  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Not on this website, USA
    Posts
    2,482

    Post imported post

    DanM wrote:
    Michigander wrote:
    Just ask them to show you the law. Tell them opinions and hearsay don't count.
    Also,tell them you are willing totransfer your gun to them if you are wrongif they are willing to transfer their gun to you if you are right. If they refuse, tell them that's what you thought. If they accept, congrats you got a gun!
    AWESOME!

  9. #9
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kalamazoo, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    987

    Post imported post

    Cabman told me once at an OC picnic that he was OCing in a bar and a LEO friend of his who was there said something like, "You know, I could arrest you for that right now." (Referring to carrying a gun in a bar.) Cabman bet him $500 bucks that he was wrong, which his friend accepted right then and there. He then proceeded to show his friend that it was legal, and his friend wrote him a check for $500. At the time of the picnic, he was just waiting for the check to clear. I'm interested to see if it did.

    Any details of this story that I have wrong will surely be corrected by Cabman if he reads this.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Macomb County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,865

    Post imported post

    manicdevery wrote:
    DanM wrote:

    Also,¬*tell them you are willing to¬*transfer your gun to them if you are wrong¬*if they are willing to transfer their gun to you if you are right.¬* If they refuse, tell them that's what you thought.¬* If they accept, congrats you got a gun!

    LOL, this is the kind of thing i was hoping to get out of this topic. i get too strung up on facts and what have you to get comfortable enough to make it easy to argue this topic.

    keep them coming, i am meeting up with a couple people i am trying to convince in the next couple days
    Yo, let us know how it went

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burton, Michigan
    Posts
    3,361

    Post imported post

    When discussing lawful OCor CC with someone, one of the first words I hear is that they have a CCW. At this point, during the discussion, I know I have my work cutout for me. I try to understand their point-of-view, in that, they were taught by others (LE, CPL Instructor's, Etc) that OC is illegal, you can't carry there, etc.

    All you can really do is cite codes/sections pertinent to the discussion with hopes they/he/she will understand. Unfortunately, in my experiences, mostdo not get it.

    I tell the misunderstood that if it was illegal to OC or CC here or there, do you really think I'd be carrying in those places?

  12. #12
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711

    Post imported post

    manicdevery wrote:
    I have had a couple encounters with other CPL holders that i have had a hard time convincing/argue the point of OC. i was just hoping to get some feedback from some people on this forum.

    I have had a coupleCPL holdersargue thatit says "concealed" so it has to be "concealed",
    Best way is to carry openly in front of them.

  13. #13
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Lawrence, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    3,845

    Post imported post

    Mike wrote:
    manicdevery wrote:
    I have had a couple encounters with other CPL holders that i have had a hard time convincing/argue the point of OC. i was just hoping to get some feedback from some people on this forum.

    I have had a couple¬*CPL holders¬*argue that¬*it says "concealed" so it has to be "concealed",
    Best way is to carry openly in front of them.
    it does work!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  14. #14
    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Houghton County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    808

    Post imported post

    That's like saying just because you have a drivers license you're not allowed to walk.
    Rand Paul 2016

  15. #15
    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,071

    Post imported post

    Yooper wrote:
    That's like saying just because you have a drivers license you're not allowed to walk.
    Yeah, that.
    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

    Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

    Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.

    The answer to "1984" is "
    1776"

    With freedom comes much responsibility. It is for this reason so many are loathe to exercise it.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Battle Creek, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,157

    Post imported post

    MCL 28.425c

    28.425c License; form; authorized conduct.

    (2) Subject to section 5o and except as otherwise provided by law, a license to carry a concealed pistol issued by the county concealed weapon licensing board authorizes the licensee to do all of the following:

    (a) Carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person anywhere in this state.

    (b) Carry a pistol in a vehicle, whether concealed or not concealed, anywhere in this state.

    Notice it does NOT state "requires the licensee."

    I have been unable to finda definition of "authorize" that could be remotely construed as meaning the same as "required."

    Here are a couple of entries from online dictionaries.

    authorize

    vb (tr)
    1. to confer authority upon (someone to do something); empower
    2. to permit (someone to do or be something) with official sanction


    Legal Dictionary

    au·tho·rize

    1 : to give permission to
    2 : to give authority to act to



    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Ė Thomas Paine

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Clio, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    363

    Post imported post

    autosurgeon wrote:
    Mike wrote:

    Best way is to carry openly in front of them.


    it does work!
    Very true, it seems the times that i open carrypeople seem more open to new information that they wouldn't have otherwise. The few times that i discuss OC with "CC only people" it seems that i am talking to a brick wall. I always keep an extraOC brochure with me and thathas seemed to help alot.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Clinton Township, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    93

    Post imported post

    Have Sgt. Deasy or his replacement email you saying that you do NOT give up your right to open carry when you get your CPL. Keep a copy and forward one to people teaching wrong.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •