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How to argue OC with CPL holders

manicdevery

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Oct 4, 2009
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361
Location
Clio, Michigan, USA
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I have had a couple encounters with other CPL holders that i have had a hard time convincing/argue the point of OC. i was just hoping to get some feedback from some people on this forum.

I have had a coupleCPL holdersargue thatit says "concealed" so it has to be "concealed", and my response is usually that if the only way i could open carry is without a CPL then i would never have got one in the first place and point out that there are certain places that youcan't OC without a CPL.

Just having a hard time winning these arguments and was wondering some of the wisdom from some of the people on this forum.

Devery
 

thekunk47

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Aug 14, 2008
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Clinton Township, Michigan, USA
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Trying to win an argument with close-minded people is usually a waste of time, especially when the CPL instructor tells them wrong. I tell people that the CPL just gives me another option in my mehods of carry. It is NOT mandatory and if that's what they were taught ...it's wrong.The State police will verify it if you can get them to make the call.Good Luck.
 

Michigander

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Just ask them to show you the law. Tell them opinions and hearsay don't count.

There is no such law, so if that doesn't get such people to shut up, they're probably so stupid that they aren't worth wasting time talking to.
 

T Vance

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Michigander wrote:
Just ask them to show you the law. Tell them opinions and hearsay don't count.

There is no such law, so if that doesn't get such people to shut up, they're probably so stupid that they aren't worth wasting time talking to.

+1

Best answer you could give!
 

langzaiguy

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Next time you go to the range with them, tell them, "Whoa, whoa, what are you doing? The **** thing says "concealed", you need to put that away." Simply said, a conceal-carry license has no relevance to shooting at the range, and it has no relevance to OC. It's called a CC license because it only pertains to CC.

It seems so obvious to us, doesn't it? If they have an ounce of logic, they'll see it too.
 

DanM

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Jul 11, 2008
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West Bloomfield, Michigan, USA
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Michigander wrote:
Just ask them to show you the law. Tell them opinions and hearsay don't count.
Also,tell them you are willing totransfer your gun to them if you are wrongif they are willing to transfer their gun to you if you are right. If they refuse, tell them that's what you thought. If they accept, congrats you got a gun!
 

manicdevery

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Clio, Michigan, USA
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DanM wrote:

Also,tell them you are willing totransfer your gun to them if you are wrongif they are willing to transfer their gun to you if you are right. If they refuse, tell them that's what you thought. If they accept, congrats you got a gun!

LOL, this is the kind of thing i was hoping to get out of this topic. i get too strung up on facts and what have you to get comfortable enough to make it easy to argue this topic.

keep them coming, i am meeting up with a couple people i am trying to convince in the next couple days
 

T Vance

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DanM wrote:
Michigander wrote:
Just ask them to show you the law. Tell them opinions and hearsay don't count.
Also,tell them you are willing totransfer your gun to them if you are wrongif they are willing to transfer their gun to you if you are right. If they refuse, tell them that's what you thought. If they accept, congrats you got a gun!
AWESOME!
 

EM87

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Mar 10, 2009
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Kalamazoo, Michigan, USA
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Cabman told me once at an OC picnic that he was OCing in a bar and a LEO friend of his who was there said something like, "You know, I could arrest you for that right now." (Referring to carrying a gun in a bar.) Cabman bet him $500 bucks that he was wrong, which his friend accepted right then and there. He then proceeded to show his friend that it was legal, and his friend wrote him a check for $500. At the time of the picnic, he was just waiting for the check to clear. I'm interested to see if it did.

Any details of this story that I have wrong will surely be corrected by Cabman if he reads this.
 

mikestilly

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Jul 6, 2009
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Macomb County, Michigan, USA
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manicdevery wrote:
DanM wrote:

Also, tell them you are willing to transfer your gun to them if you are wrong if they are willing to transfer their gun to you if you are right.  If they refuse, tell them that's what you thought.  If they accept, congrats you got a gun!

LOL, this is the kind of thing i was hoping to get out of this topic. i get too strung up on facts and what have you to get comfortable enough to make it easy to argue this topic.

keep them coming, i am meeting up with a couple people i am trying to convince in the next couple days

Yo, let us know how it went :)
 

SpringerXDacp

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May 12, 2006
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Location
Burton, Michigan
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When discussing lawful OCor CC with someone, one of the first words I hear is that they have a CCW. At this point, during the discussion, I know I have my work cutout for me. I try to understand their point-of-view, in that, they were taught by others (LE, CPL Instructor's, Etc) that OC is illegal, you can't carry there, etc.

All you can really do is cite codes/sections pertinent to the discussion with hopes they/he/she will understand. Unfortunately, in my experiences, mostdo not get it.

I tell the misunderstood that if it was illegal to OC or CC here or there, do you really think I'd be carrying in those places?
 

Mike

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May 13, 2006
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Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
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manicdevery wrote:
I have had a couple encounters with other CPL holders that i have had a hard time convincing/argue the point of OC. i was just hoping to get some feedback from some people on this forum.

I have had a coupleCPL holdersargue thatit says "concealed" so it has to be "concealed",
Best way is to carry openly in front of them.
 

autosurgeon

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Joined
Sep 29, 2008
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Location
Lawrence, Michigan, United States
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Mike wrote:
manicdevery wrote:
I have had a couple encounters with other CPL holders that i have had a hard time convincing/argue the point of OC. i was just hoping to get some feedback from some people on this forum.

I have had a couple CPL holders argue that it says "concealed" so it has to be "concealed",
Best way is to carry openly in front of them.

:lol: it does work!
 

Bronson

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Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
2,126
Location
Battle Creek, Michigan, USA
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MCL 28.425c

28.425c License; form; authorized conduct.

(2) Subject to section 5o and except as otherwise provided by law, a license to carry a concealed pistol issued by the county concealed weapon licensing board authorizes the licensee to do all of the following:

(a) Carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person anywhere in this state.

(b) Carry a pistol in a vehicle, whether concealed or not concealed, anywhere in this state.

Notice it does NOT state "requires the licensee."

I have been unable to finda definition of "authorize" that could be remotely construed as meaning the same as "required."

Here are a couple of entries from online dictionaries.

authorize

vb (tr)
1. to confer authority upon (someone to do something); empower
2. to permit (someone to do or be something) with official sanction


Legal Dictionary

au·tho·rize

1 : to give permission to
2 : to give authority to act to



Bronson
 

manicdevery

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
361
Location
Clio, Michigan, USA
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autosurgeon wrote:
Mike wrote:

Best way is to carry openly in front of them.


:lol: it does work!
Very true, it seems the times that i open carrypeople seem more open to new information that they wouldn't have otherwise. The few times that i discuss OC with "CC only people" it seems that i am talking to a brick wall. I always keep an extraOC brochure with me and thathas seemed to help alot.
 
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