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Thread: York County "Courthouse Complex"

  1. #1
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    I have always thought the "back part" of the Counrthouse building in Yorktown was NOT part of the Courthouse and therefore, you can OC there. I'm glad I haven't been caught doing it there, because I just spoke to a York County Deputy that told me "Yes, it is part of the courthouse. Why would you want to carry there anyway?"

    Lesson Learned or Wrong Info from a deputy?

    I can't imagine one of Sheriff Diggs' deputies giving out incorrect information about OCing, so he must be correct. I'm going to look around more at the county web site and see what I can learn on my own...


    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    I have always thought the "back part" of the Counrthouse building in Yorktown was NOT part of the Courthouse and therefore, you can OC there. I'm glad I haven't been caught doing it there, because I just spoke to a York County Deputy that told me "Yes, it is part of the courthouse. Why would you want to carry there anyway?"

    Lesson Learned or Wrong Info from a deputy?

    I can't imagine one of Sheriff Diggs' deputies giving out incorrect information about OCing, so he must be correct. I'm going to look around more at the county web site and see what I can learn on my own...

    I thought it was just the courthouse itself. This wouldn't be the first time a LEO didn't know the law :^). I would not consider the grounds or especially the parking lot part of the courthouse.

    § 18.2-283.1. Carrying weapon into courthouse.

    It shall be unlawful for any person to possess in or transport into any courthouse in this Commonwealth any (i) gun or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile or projectile of any kind, (ii) frame, receiver, muffler, silencer, missile, projectile or ammunition designed for use with a dangerous weapon and (iii) any other dangerous weapon, including explosives, stun weapons as defined in § 18.2-308.1, and those weapons specified in subsection A of § 18.2-308. Any such weapon shall be subject to seizure by a law-enforcement officer. A violation of this section is punishable as a Class 1 misdemeanor.
    The provisions of this section shall not apply to any police officer, sheriff, law-enforcement agent or official, conservation police officer, conservator of the peace, magistrate, court officer, or judge while in the conduct of such person's official duties.


    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+18.2-283.1

  3. #3
    Regular Member CRF250rider1000's Avatar
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    There are metal detectors at the entrances to the courthouses. As long as you do not go in the building you are fine IMO.

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Just looked at Google Earth. The county offices are in a different building. No anti-weapon signage or metal detectors there. Just County Offices. Sidewalk between the buildings, even...

    Google Earth image to follow...
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  5. #5
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    County building at top... Courthouse to the left with the nice round cupola or round thing and circular front "porch"...


    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    http://www.virginia1774.org/CourthouseArea.html The Virginia Court of Appeals defines what is "the courthouse" and what is not "The courthouse" in a building with multiple uses.

    It is good, valid case law. I do not want to volunteer to be the case to test it in Yorktown or elsewhere. MY fear is that until someone tests this precedent we will continue to have the local Sheriff give us the answer that the whole building is the courthouse.

    Yes, I have had a sit-down with my local Sheriff and discussed the case and it's ruling. He agreed that it was the law. He also said he would continue to train the deputies to follow current procedures.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
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  7. #7
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    I wrote an e-mail to the Sheriff before I went downtown to pay my utility bill . I'll let you know what he says.

    I was OCing and the ladies behind the counter had to see my left side when I came in the office. No double-takes or :shock:from any of them.

    Went for a walk on the beach afterwards. Saw a Sheriff's Deputy marked car (without lightbar) drive down the street while I was there. he either didn't notice or didn't care about my OCing. Wonder if it was the same Sargeant that told me I couldn 't carry in the county offices. :?
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  8. #8
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Recieved response from Sheriff Diggs:


    ====================================


    Sorry, but you were misinformed by my deputy.You were correct in that you could have taken your firearm inCounty buildings other than the Courthouse and school property. I have taken action to inform all deputies of the law and I have emailed all Sheriff's employeesthe following:



    It is imperative that all deputies are aware of the rights of individuals guaranteed by the Constitution. One that we have to deal with on a regular basis is the 2nd Amendment. For those of you that don't know what that is, it is the right to keep and bear arms. Unlessa person is forbidden by law to possess a firearm it is their right to carry one.


    Open carry is a term used to describe when a person carries a firearm in plain view, not concealed. No permit is needed. Here in Virginia, open carry is allowed everywhere with a few exceptions of school property, courthouses, and private property where the owner has forbidden it. There are some other places that are prohibited as well, but they are the most common that you will have to deal with.


    If you need more information, go to www.opencarry.orgor www.vcdl.org or www.nra.org


    This is embarrassing for me, especially since you are aware of my strong support for the 2nd Amendment.


    Please accept my apology for being given inaccurate information by one of my deputies.


    J. D. "Danny" Diggs
    Sheriff of York County & Poquoson
    York-Poquoson Sheriff's Office
    P.O. Box 99
    301 Goodwin Neck Rd
    Yorktown, VA 23690
    Phone 757-890-3677
    Fax 757-890-6678
    www.yorkcounty.gov/sheriff


    ====================================


    I'm happy to live here. I hope this guy continues to get reelected. If we're lucky, he'll seek higher office within our state. I don't know anyone with better qualifications. I am truly humbled by his response above...
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  9. #9
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    That's a good guy. Owns up to a problem caused by one of his people and he outlined the steps he's taking to correct the deficiency. That's a rare sight for public officials of any stripe.

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    What a great response. I too hope he keeps getting elected! I went to the website but couldn't find an email address for him so tell him for us we appreciate his loyalty to and knowledge of our rights.

  11. #11
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    He reads OCDO regularly. His e-mail address is on the County website: sheriff@yorkcounty.gov


    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  12. #12
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    The only point of contention I have with this man's response:

    Unless a person is forbidden by law to possess a firearm it is their right to carry one.
    According to the 2nd Amendment there is NO LAW that can forbid a person from carrying a firearm, yet there are hundreds, if not thousands, nationwide.

    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
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    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    One that we have to deal with on a regular basis is the 2nd Amendment.
    ? Is that just a poor choice of words? You wouldn't hear talk like that about any of the others...

    It sounds like he's a good guy... that just doesn't sound like the best way to say what he (hopefully) meant.

    TFred


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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    TFred:

    I read that part as something they are exposed to on a regular basis, not in a negative way. Something they need to be aware of, Something they need to be well versed on... Furthering their education.

    Trust me on this: Several on ODCO have met Sheriff Diggs and he IS a strong supporter of 2A and our rights. Take his words at face value and don't try to read something sinister or back-handed into them. It just isn't there. He is very much a man ofthe people and is well-aware (and has publicly stated) that he was elected by the people. The people of York County are who he works for.

    Semper Paratus


    EDIT: I re-read the letter. Remember this is in response to my e-mail. His response to me was actually very short: the first paragraph. The rest was written directly to his deputies and employees.

    Try readingit from a personal point of view from a supervisor to his employees. He uses the same phrase later in the letter. I interpret it to mean what I said above... Something they have to be aware of and know about their jobs.

    York County Deputies are very well-trained. Their training exceeds state standards and requirements. They are very selective about who they hire. Average age of their deputies is in the mid-30's. There's a lot of experience out there.
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  15. #15
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Sincerely appreciate the OP's attention to detail and most particularly the Sheriff's candid and straight forward response.

    Great job and kudos to both.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    TFred:

    I read that part as something they are exposed to on a regular basis, not in a negative way. Something they need to be aware of, Something they need to be well versed on... Furthering their education.

    Trust me on this: Several on ODCO have met Sheriff Diggs and he IS a strong supporter of 2A and our rights. Take his words at face value and don't try to read something sinister or back-handed into them. It just isn't there. He is very much a man ofthe people and is well-aware (and has publicly stated) that he was elected by the people. The people of York County are who he works for.

    Semper Paratus


    EDIT: I re-read the letter. Remember this is in response to my e-mail. His response to me was actually very short: the first paragraph. The rest was written directly to his deputies and employees.

    Try readingit from a personal point of view from a supervisor to his employees. He uses the same phrase later in the letter. I interpret it to mean what I said above... Something they have to be aware of and know about their jobs.

    York County Deputies are very well-trained. Their training exceeds state standards and requirements. They are very selective about who they hire. Average age of their deputies is in the mid-30's. There's a lot of experience out there.
    Great Job ACP!

    Special KUDOS to the Sheriff. I've been a fan of his for a long time. The department is well staffed and well run. It would be nice if all Sheriff's in Va would take a few lessons from him.

  17. #17
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    peter nap wrote:
    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    TFred:

    I read that part as something they are exposed to on a regular basis, not in a negative way. Something they need to be aware of, Something they need to be well versed on... Furthering their education.

    Trust me on this: Several on ODCO have met Sheriff Diggs and he IS a strong supporter of 2A and our rights. Take his words at face value and don't try to read something sinister or back-handed into them. It just isn't there. He is very much a man ofthe people and is well-aware (and has publicly stated) that he was elected by the people. The people of York County are who he works for.

    Semper Paratus


    EDIT: I re-read the letter. Remember this is in response to my e-mail. His response to me was actually very short: the first paragraph. The rest was written directly to his deputies and employees.

    Try readingit from a personal point of view from a supervisor to his employees. He uses the same phrase later in the letter. I interpret it to mean what I said above... Something they have to be aware of and know about their jobs.

    York County Deputies are very well-trained. Their training exceeds state standards and requirements. They are very selective about who they hire. Average age of their deputies is in the mid-30's. There's a lot of experience out there.
    Great Job ACP!

    Special KUDOS to the Sheriff. I've been a fan of his for a long time. The department is well staffed and well run. It would be nice if all Sheriff's in Va would take a few lessons from him.
    Especially the one in Gloucester, it would seem!

    TFred

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Thank you my Brothers. We're very fortunate to have him here. I'm very glad he's here and hasn't moved on to "bigger and better things". He is truly a Blessing.
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  19. #19
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    I have been in touch with the Gloucester sheriff's department and advised that VCDL does not believe the old courthouse building is a bonefide courthouse just because they hold court there ONCE A YEAR, with the rest of the time being used by others. (They do that so they can say it is the oldest continuously operating court.)

  20. #20
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    VCDL President wrote:
    I have been in touch with the Gloucester sheriff's department and advised that VCDL does not believe the old courthouse building is a bonefide courthouse just because they hold court there ONCE A YEAR, with the rest of the time being used by others. (They do that so they can say it is the oldest continuously operating court.)
    Only that part of the courthouse building necessary for the use and occupancy of the circuit court constituted the courthouse

    Link: http://www.virginia1774.org/CourthouseArea.html
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

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