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Thread: Another home invasion

  1. #1
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    The details on this one are still pretty sketchy. Most home invasions are a result of former criminal involvement on the part of the homeowner, or former residents of the home. That is possible, of course. But empty-nester couples recently returned from an LDS mission are not exactly stereotypical criminals.

    However, pay attention to the portion of the story that says a shed containing guns and ammo was raided as part of the home invasion. My bet is that somehow the BGs knew of that shed and its contents and this was not a random crime.

    In any event, one more reason to have some decent hardware between the inside and outside of the home, and to keep some form of self-defense handy all the time.

    Charles

    http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=8702655

    ELK RIDGE -- Authorities in Utah County are keeping a tight lid on a crime scene at a home in Payson where a man was brutally murdered Monday.
    The search continues for two heavily armed men who police say broke into the home at the mouth of Payson Canyon and killed a man inside. So far, Utah County authorities are keeping the details of the crime from the public, but neighbors have been more forthcoming with information.
    Kent Carroll, who has lived next to the victim for 28 years, says his neighbor was a retired engineering professor who taught at BYU. He said that last month his neighbor and his wife returned home from serving an LDS mission in the Cove Fort area.
    Carroll and other residents driving by the house Tuesday morning watched as investigators continued to comb through the property located near 11600 South Canyon Road. Neighbors were surprised to learn which house the attack had occurred at because the victim and his wife live there alone, and apparently last night his wife was in Salt Lake.

    "I didn't figure it was him. I figured it was the Carrolls, because they said they tied up a couple of people, and he didn't have any children at home," one neighbor said.
    Another said, "It's surprising to hear that a neighbor gets attacked or anything like that. It's always kind of scary I guess."
    According to the Utah County Sheriff's Office, the home invasion occurred around 7:00 Monday night. Initial reports were that two men with guns broke in and slashed the homeowner's throat, then tied up two other people who were there at the time. The two surviving victims told police the intruders were armed with guns when they broke into the home.
    According to dispatchers, the men also raided what is being described as a bunker shed which contained guns and ammunition. They then fled the property in a 1991 blue hatchback Ford Escort station wagon with license plate A396LJ.
    The Utah County Sheriff's Office says the suspects are believed to be about 5 feet 8 inches tall, 115 pounds, with short black dyed hair. Witnesses also told authorities the men were wearing jeans and T-shirts, and one man had a goatee.
    Lt. Darren Gilbert of the Utah County Sheriff's Office says, "The only report of suspects we have is a blue hatchback that was seen leaving the location. This is still an ongoing, active investigation. We're looking at all avenues of this incident and doing what we can to find suspects and locate next of kin."
    Carroll said the victim did have a large collection of guns and ammunition. He said he had permits for them.

    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    KSL wrote:
    Carroll said the victim did have a large collection of guns and ammunition. He said he had permits for them.

    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    utbagpiper wrote:
    The details on this one are still pretty sketchy...According to dispatchers, the man also raided what is being described as a bunker shed which contained gun and ammunition...
    Wow, so horrible.
    I am willing to bet the the homeowner had a bunker full of 2012/SHTF supplies type of thing, too many people got wind of and the wrong person decided they wanted the stuff for themselves without having to earn it.

    I don't like the thought of a home invasion, i don't like the fact that this guy actually HAD means to protect himself and they weren't able to help him. I don't like that the BGs seemingly got away with it.

    There is just nothing about this story i like.
    http://crimedoctor.com/homeinvasion.htm

    utbagpiper wrote:
    ...My bet is that somehow the BGs knew of that shed and its contents and this was not a random crime....
    Yup, +1.


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    SGT Jensen wrote:
    KSL wrote:
    Carroll said the victim did have a large collection of guns and ammunition. He said he had permits for them.
    '
    Probably just the usual ignorance of laws from the general populace and media.

    I just take this to mean nothing illegal. Maybe the owner had a permit to carry. Maybe some slim chance he had class III stuff with permits.

    Bottom line, though, a shed full of guns don't do you much good if you can't get to the shed.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    utbagpiper wrote:
    Bottom line, though, a shed full of guns don't do you much good if you can't get to the shed.

    Charles
    +1 (If I had a shed full of guns/ammo I would have had at least one firearm/rifle stashed in every room of the house= easy access)


    This is just a sad/tragic event. My prayers & thoughts go out to the family.



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    bmeldrum wrote:
    utbagpiper wrote:
    Bottom line, though, a shed full of guns don't do you much good if you can't get to the shed.

    Charles
    +1 (If I had a shed full of guns/ammo I would have had at least one firearm/rifle stashed in every room of the house= easy access)


    This is just a sad/tragic event. My prayers & thoughts go out to the family.

    It is a sad state of affairs when you have to walk around your own home with your firearm "locked and loaded" on your belt. I cannot stash a gun in every room as I have a special needs child who loves them, would shoot me, and then expect me to "Respawn" in 10 seconds.

    This is truly tragic, my prayers and thoughts go out to the family as well.

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    kirkaroberts wrote:
    It is a sad state of affairs when you have to walk around your own home with your firearm "locked and loaded" on your belt. I cannot stash a gun in every room as I have a special needs child who loves them, would shoot me, and then expect me to "Respawn" in 10 seconds.

    This is truly tragic, my prayers and thoughts go out to the family as well.
    Just a couple of thoughts here:

    1-Truly random home invasions remain rare in this nation. This guy was known for having a large collection of guns and ammo and appears to have been targeted to allow theft of those items. Most other home invasions that make the news end up having ties to the drug trade or illegal alien trafficking.

    2-Assuming you have decent doors and locks, maybe even a dog, you should have at least several seconds warning before anyone can actually breach your door and get inside the house. A rapid open safe near the door, or near where you spend most of your time may be worth considering. Improving the physical strength of your door, its hinges, and locks will buy you additional time to access a firearm that is secured, to get your family to a safer area of the home, to make an escape, and/or to summon help as may be appropriate and possible.

    3-A .22 (or .25 or .32 or .380) in hand beats a .45 in the safe. Consider a decent little pocket gun (with proper holster) as a BUG when out and about and as your primary while indoors. Or consider something like smartcarry, or an IWB holster, or other comfortable method of carrying such that there is no reason to disarm when coming indoors.
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  8. #8
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    wow thats a few blocks away from my house

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    utbagpiper wrote:
    "and to keep some form of self-defense handy all the time."
    I thought the same thing whenI read that article, and right now I am wacthing Glen Beck in my living room, my Firearms are in safes right now. Some up stairs and some in the basement, but I do not have a firearm on the level I am on right now!
    I have to invest in another lock box for my TV room, so if someone just walked up to the sliding glass door or kicked in the front door, I have to move fast, grab my son at the same time, go up stairs and get to my gun! Parnoid? No! Being prepared can and does save lives.

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    I am not flaming you Bennelli, by any means - but this does bring up an interesting thought:

    My wife and i asked ourselves the other night: "When is it TOO much?" A gun in the living room, bedroom, one in the toilet in a zip lock, one in the oven, one buried in the kitty litter, one in the truck, one in the trunk, one in the coffee table, one in the deep freeze ----
    So many guns in safes and bunkers: Why not just keep one on the hip? OC or CC?

    ya'll might think it funny, but the only times i'm not carrying is the shower and sleeping. i don't go to the post office, no need.

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    I usually continue to OC when I get home from work. Sometimes when I shower, my GLOCK is right there on the vanity.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    I need my CWP before I can carry everywhere. I'm a bit hesitant to carry everywhere because chances are, I will be 990 feet away from a school, and the Judge will agree that I broke the law :P

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    With a 2 & 5 year old I can not just keep it on the coffee table, I use to place it in my Sepra Model #2 on top of the 6' high entertainment center until the 5 year old scaled it like Spiderman looking for a DVD on the top shelf, needless to say I don't do that any more.

    I work from my home, andI never just get dressed and put on the rig that is until I leave my home. However, I might think twice about in the future,I was reading an article in the last 1st Freedom NRA magazine it stated that statistically if you had to use your firearm it would be in your home and not in a "dark alley" down town.



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    Bennelli wrote:
    ....the last 1st Freedom NRA magazine it stated that statistically if you had to use your firearm it would be in your home and not in a "dark alley" down town.
    Great. I'll sleep great tonight, thanks. :P
    (Note the timestamp, ha)


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    kirkaroberts wrote
    I cannot stash a gun in every room as I have a special needs child who loves them, would shoot me, and then expect me to "Respawn" in 10 seconds.
    You seriously need to invest some time with teaching that child about firearms. I've spent a lot of time with kids with Downs' and other special needs, and they absolutely can learn how to handle a gun safely -- or at least not to handle one at all. Spending a little time out shooting a real gun will quickly teach the difference between reality and video games, especially for most special needs kids who tend to find the noise and shock of a real gun frightening (esp. large caliber handguns). Shooting some watermelons is a good idea, too, and point out that the gun will do that to people as well as melons.

    Not that I'm saying you should then stash a gun in every room. Unless you live in an area where home invasions are really common, that's just silly. But it's a very bad idea to leave any child that ignorant of firearms.

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    swillden wrote:
    kirkaroberts wrote
    I cannot stash a gun in every room as I have a special needs child who loves them, would shoot me, and then expect me to "Respawn" in 10 seconds.
    You seriously need to invest some time with teaching that child about firearms. I've spent a lot of time with kids with Downs' and other special needs, and they absolutely can learn how to handle a gun safely -- or at least not to handle one at all. Spending a little time out shooting a real gun will quickly teach the difference between reality and video games, especially for most special needs kids who tend to find the noise and shock of a real gun frightening (esp. large caliber handguns). Shooting some watermelons is a good idea, too, and point out that the gun will do that to people as well as melons.

    Not that I'm saying you should then stash a gun in every room. Unless you live in an area where home invasions are really common, that's just silly. But it's a very bad idea to leave any child that ignorant of firearms.
    Thanks for the advice. I have had my son out shooting real real guns and he loves them all. He loves the big ones, little ones, and especially the semi-autos. Another thing to remember is that not all special needs kids are alike. You cannot lump them all together. I suspect that since you have spent a lot of time with Downs Syndrome kids and other special needs kids, you already know this.

    My son is not "ignorant of firearms". Quite the contrary, and there may come a day when I am able to trust that he would not pick up a real gun if he saw it. That time is not now. It's also not really a very good idea to tell someone else how to raise their children, especially a special needs child. Most parents who are actually raising special needs children are very protective and offended when someone who doesn't know their child at all tells them that they can do it better. I would not advise doing this without the anonymity of the internet to hide behind. I know that people just don't understand and shrug it off. I have seen other parents come completely unglued. Just something to keep in mind.

    It's a little like that unwritten rule, "I can talk bad about my family but you can't".

    I understand your point, but I will raise my child, and I promise never to tell you how to raise yours.

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    kirkaroberts wrote:
    swillden wrote:
    kirkaroberts wrote
    I cannot stash a gun in every room as I have a special needs child who loves them, would shoot me, and then expect me to "Respawn" in 10 seconds.
    You seriously need to invest some time with teaching that child about firearms. I've spent a lot of time with kids with Downs' and other special needs, and they absolutely can learn how to handle a gun safely -- or at least not to handle one at all. Spending a little time out shooting a real gun will quickly teach the difference between reality and video games, especially for most special needs kids who tend to find the noise and shock of a real gun frightening (esp. large caliber handguns). Shooting some watermelons is a good idea, too, and point out that the gun will do that to people as well as melons.

    Not that I'm saying you should then stash a gun in every room. Unless you live in an area where home invasions are really common, that's just silly. But it's a very bad idea to leave any child that ignorant of firearms.
    Thanks for the advice. I have had my son out shooting real real guns and he loves them all. He loves the big ones, little ones, and especially the semi-autos. Another thing to remember is that not all special needs kids are alike. You cannot lump them all together. I suspect that since you have spent a lot of time with Downs Syndrome kids and other special needs kids, you already know this.

    My son is not "ignorant of firearms". Quite the contrary, and there may come a day when I am able to trust that he would not pick up a real gun if he saw it. That time is not now. It's also not really a very good idea to tell someone else how to raise their children, especially a special needs child. Most parents who are actually raising special needs children are very protective and offended when someone who doesn't know their child at all tells them that they can do it better. I would not advise doing this without the anonymity of the internet to hide behind. I know that people just don't understand and shrug it off. I have seen other parents come completely unglued. Just something to keep in mind.

    It's a little like that unwritten rule, "I can talk bad about my family but you can't".

    I understand your point, but I will raise my child, and I promise never to tell you how to raise yours.
    I can almost BET that SWILLDENs intentions were to merely educate, or "heads up" rather than "tell you how". He is VERY knowledgeable on Utah gun laws and an extremely good source of information regarding our common hobby or carrying guns int he open or concealed.

    Its hard to tell, on the internet, when someone is trying to help rather than flame, lol. I just thought i would clear that up, cause i know you are new to the forums and may have misunderstaood his intentions - i wanna help you out recognizing the quality members versus the one that just pop in every now and then to flame a post.

    Also, just to clear up my original reply, i was asking why not keep one on your hip at home rather than someone thinking the better alternative was to hide guns in very room , not to do it.

    Welcome to OCDO.



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    ProtectedBy9mm wrote:
    kirkaroberts wrote:
    swillden wrote:
    kirkaroberts wrote
    I cannot stash a gun in every room as I have a special needs child who loves them, would shoot me, and then expect me to "Respawn" in 10 seconds.
    You seriously need to invest some time with teaching that child about firearms. I've spent a lot of time with kids with Downs' and other special needs, and they absolutely can learn how to handle a gun safely -- or at least not to handle one at all. Spending a little time out shooting a real gun will quickly teach the difference between reality and video games, especially for most special needs kids who tend to find the noise and shock of a real gun frightening (esp. large caliber handguns). Shooting some watermelons is a good idea, too, and point out that the gun will do that to people as well as melons.

    Not that I'm saying you should then stash a gun in every room. Unless you live in an area where home invasions are really common, that's just silly. But it's a very bad idea to leave any child that ignorant of firearms.
    Thanks for the advice. I have had my son out shooting real real guns and he loves them all. He loves the big ones, little ones, and especially the semi-autos. Another thing to remember is that not all special needs kids are alike. You cannot lump them all together. I suspect that since you have spent a lot of time with Downs Syndrome kids and other special needs kids, you already know this.

    My son is not "ignorant of firearms". Quite the contrary, and there may come a day when I am able to trust that he would not pick up a real gun if he saw it. That time is not now. It's also not really a very good idea to tell someone else how to raise their children, especially a special needs child. Most parents who are actually raising special needs children are very protective and offended when someone who doesn't know their child at all tells them that they can do it better. I would not advise doing this without the anonymity of the internet to hide behind. I know that people just don't understand and shrug it off. I have seen other parents come completely unglued. Just something to keep in mind.

    It's a little like that unwritten rule, "I can talk bad about my family but you can't".

    I understand your point, but I will raise my child, and I promise never to tell you how to raise yours.
    I can almost BET that SWILLDENs intentions were to merely educate, or "heads up" rather than "tell you how". He is VERY knowledgeable on Utah gun laws and an extremely good source of information regarding our common hobby or carrying guns int he open or concealed.

    Its hard to tell, on the internet, when someone is trying to help rather than flame, lol. I just thought i would clear that up, cause i know you are new to the forums and may have misunderstaood his intentions - i wanna help you out recognizing the quality members versus the one that just pop in every now and then to flame a post.

    Also, just to clear up my original reply, i was asking why not keep one on your hip at home rather than someone thinking the better alternative was to hide guns in very room , not to do it.

    Welcome to OCDO.

    ProtectedBy9mm,

    I guess it is difficult to tell if someone is trying to "flame" someone. I just wanted to make sure that swillden did not think that just because any number of children he may have had experience with were not mine. Special needs children are as unique as snowflakes and what works for one does not necessarily work for the other. I, like most I suspect on this forum, grew up around guns my whole life. I want my children to be able to grow up with the same experiences. However, I grew up in Alaska, where for the most part, citizens who carry guns are left alone. You do not even need a CFP to carry concealed up there. Both of my children are familiar with guns, have shot guns, and own guns. They do not get to keep them in their bedrooms and they are locked away except when I am teaching them about safety, how to shoot, disassemble, and clean them. That is a personal choice.

    My wife have a special needs child. He does not have Downs Syndrome. Many well intending people would like to tell parents of special needs children how they could do it better based on whatever level of experience they have with special needs children. No one knows a special needs child better than the parents who have lived with them every day for going on 12 years now. I don't care if they have a doctorate degree and have worked in special education programs for 30 years. His neurologist, teachers, psychiatrist, pediatrician, and every other healthcare provider he sees always defer to the parents for the basis of their knowledge as to the child's habits, characteristics, and so on. The parent always knows their children best.

    I do think that a more appropriate response from swillden would have been something like, "Since I do not know your son, is he capable of understanding the difference between real guns and games? Have you spent much time teaching him about firearms?"Referring to my special needs son as "that child" was not a real heart warming thing to say either.

    Also, I thought I was the one being accused of sounding superior in previous messages. Perhaps it is my writing style, but it was not my intention. And, I exchanged private messages with the person whom I had thought was attacking me and we do not have any disagreements. I see no need to apologize to the entire forum, even though I sort of did in my response to another member, Mr. Sam Fidler.

    I do think that it is unfortunate that a site intended to bring citizens with a common goal together turns into something that splits us apart, becomes a place for one to attack another based simply on one line of a lengthy comment, often taken out of context, attacks on someone for mistakes as they try to learn the website, or even things that are completely off point.

    Remember, "United we stand, divided we fall."

    This division is exactly what those who would seek to take away our rights are depending on. They got it in the elections and it continues.

    This should be a site that welcomes new members, is a place to exchange information, help each other, and have healthy, polite debates. That is not what I see here.

    I hope this group is able to unite before the next elections. That is where it will really count.

    I am a member of some very nice woodworking forums and I have yet to see anyone attack another member on them. No one degrades anyone's projects, help and tips are always available, and as a result, everyone benefits. Just something to think about.

    Protectedbymy9mm, thank you for your polite response.

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    kirkaroberts wrote:
    My son is not "ignorant of firearms". Quite the contrary, and there may come a day when I am able to trust that he would not pick up a real gun if he saw it.
    That's an entirely different issue than the one I responded to. Specifically, I was responding to your claim that your son would expect you to respawn in 10 seconds. That's an extremely dangerous and easy-to-correct situation. If that's not really the issue, but rather that you don't trust his impulse control and/or ability to handle a firearm without supervision, then that's different.

    kirkaroberts wrote:
    I would not advise doing this without the anonymity of the internet to hide behind. I know that people just don't understand and shrug it off.
    I'm not hiding behind the anonymity of the Internet. If you'd like to come find me in person, just ask and I'll give you my phone number and home address.

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    swillden wrote:
    kirkaroberts wrote:
    My son is not "ignorant of firearms". Quite the contrary, and there may come a day when I am able to trust that he would not pick up a real gun if he saw it.
    That's an entirely different issue than the one I responded to. Specifically, I was responding to your claim that your son would expect you to respawn in 10 seconds. That's an extremely dangerous and easy-to-correct situation. If that's not really the issue, but rather that you don't trust his impulse control and/or ability to handle a firearm without supervision, then that's different.

    kirkaroberts wrote:
    I would not advise doing this without the anonymity of the internet to hide behind. I know that people just don't understand and shrug it off.
    I'm not hiding behind the anonymity of the Internet. If you'd like to come find me in person, just ask and I'll give you my phone number and home address.
    I second the notion that Swillden isn't trying to insult anybody. Never seen him post anything but good information for people. IMO one of the more unselfish distributors of information out there!

    /wave Divegeek!

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    UtahJarhead wrote:
    swillden wrote:
    kirkaroberts wrote:
    My son is not "ignorant of firearms". Quite the contrary, and there may come a day when I am able to trust that he would not pick up a real gun if he saw it.
    That's an entirely different issue than the one I responded to. Specifically, I was responding to your claim that your son would expect you to respawn in 10 seconds. That's an extremely dangerous and easy-to-correct situation. If that's not really the issue, but rather that you don't trust his impulse control and/or ability to handle a firearm without supervision, then that's different.

    kirkaroberts wrote:
    I would not advise doing this without the anonymity of the internet to hide behind. I know that people just don't understand and shrug it off.
    I'm not hiding behind the anonymity of the Internet. If you'd like to come find me in person, just ask and I'll give you my phone number and home address.
    I second the notion that Swillden isn't trying to insult anybody. Never seen him post anything but good information for people. IMO one of the more unselfish distributors of information out there!

    /wave Divegeek!
    I am sure that Swillden means not harm, but he has caused it any way. You just do not tell others how to raise their children. It is one thing to "work with" or "spend time with" special needs kids. It is quite another to get them up every morning, tuck them in at night, take care of their problems during the night, and take care of them during the day, EVERY DAY! If you do not have a special needs child you don't get it. You simply don't get it.

    I also said that I normally just shrug those kind of comments off because I know he doesn't get it. It's my wife he would want to steer clear of with his advise about parenthood. Instead of "that kid" he would be referring to "this black eye" or "this broken nose", as I tried to peel her off of him, no matter how bit he is. She is a small lady, but I learned in Alaska, you never underestimate the anger, strength, or power of a mama bear.

    This is so for off subject of the tragic events in Payson that I have grown tired of talking about it. And quite honestly, I have grown tired of talking to people who want to discuss my child when they KNOW NOTHING ABOUT HIM! This is a poor site for me to be a part of. You have lost me as a supporter. That's one more. See how long it takes before you have no one left to stand beside you and fight for your rights at this rate.

    This is my last post.

  22. #22
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    Wow... feelings hurt much?

    Sorry that Kirk got offended, I really don't see why

  23. #23
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Condemning the entire membership of OCDO for the (inoffensive) words of one member?

    Painting with a broad brush are we?

    We currently have near 23,000 members.

  24. #24
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    kirkaroberts wrote:
    It's my wife he would want to steer clear of with his advise about parenthood. Instead of "that kid" he would be referring to "this black eye" or "this broken nose", as I tried to peel her off of him, no matter how bit he is. She is a small lady, but I learned in Alaska, you never underestimate the anger, strength, or power of a mama bear.
    Were I actually talking to your wife, she'd see my open, friendly and non-judgmental demeanor and take my comments in the spirit they were intended.

    One of the disadvantages of a text-only channel (even with emoticons) is that there's so much non-verbal communication that gets missed that posts are often taken in a tone very different from intended. The only solution, especially when dealing with someone you don't yet have a feel for, is to give the benefit of the doubt.

    I'm sorry you took my comments so badly. They certainly weren't intended to offend. I suppose I should have been a bit more careful since I've noticed that many of your initial posts were a bit "on edge". My general style is just to be straightforward and factual, without being either apologetic or aggressive, and usually people take it well even before they get to know me. After they get to know me they know I meant no offense.

    Again, I apologize for any offense. It certainly wasn't intended. I also don't like being told how to raise my kids, but I guess I just didn't think suggestions like the one I offered rise to that level. Although I don't have a special needs child, you can trust me when I say that I know how difficult parenting can be and how judgmental people often are (I'm divegeek).

  25. #25
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    swillden wrote:
    kirkaroberts wrote:
    It's my wife he would want to steer clear of with his advise about parenthood. Instead of "that kid" he would be referring to "this black eye" or "this broken nose", as I tried to peel her off of him, no matter how bit he is. She is a small lady, but I learned in Alaska, you never underestimate the anger, strength, or power of a mama bear.
    Were I actually talking to your wife, she'd see my open, friendly and non-judgmental demeanor and take my comments in the spirit they were intended.

    One of the disadvantages of a text-only channel (even with emoticons) is that there's so much non-verbal communication that gets missed that posts are often taken in a tone very different from intended. The only solution, especially when dealing with someone you don't yet have a feel for, is to give the benefit of the doubt.

    I'm sorry you took my comments so badly. They certainly weren't intended to offend. I suppose I should have been a bit more careful since I've noticed that many of your initial posts were a bit "on edge". My general style is just to be straightforward and factual, without being either apologetic or aggressive, and usually people take it well even before they get to know me. After they get to know me they know I meant no offense.

    Again, I apologize for any offense. It certainly wasn't intended. I also don't like being told how to raise my kids, but I guess I just didn't think suggestions like the one I offered rise to that level. Although I don't have a special needs child, you can trust me when I say that I know how difficult parenting can be and how judgmental people often are (I'm divegeek).
    Ok, I'll admit, my fangs come out a bit quick when it comes to my kids, especially the most defenseless of the two. Sorry I jumped on you so hard. Take care.

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