Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: input request for letter I want to send to Governor

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Fairfax, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    291

    Post imported post

    Dear Governor,

    Today I had the pleasure of shopping at one of many fine ABC stores operated by the state of Virginia. Upon check out, I had a conversation with one of the store clerks. Somehow we managed to get on the topic of firearms. I proceeded to ask him whether or not he was allowed to carry a firearm while working at an ABC store. He replied that he was forbiddon from carrying a gun at work; however, he also added that he would carry if he was allowed to, but he needed the job.

    I assume the restrictions on employees carrying firearms at ABC storesis a policy decision, since according to the code of Virginia, it is infact legal to carry a concealed firearm into an ABC store by a individual possessing a concealed handgun permit recognized by the Commonwealth of Virginia, and it is also legal for somebody to carry a firearm into an ABC store openly without a permit.Since manyABC stores are visited bymany differn't patrons with many differn't motives, I do not understand why there is a policy on Virginia employees regulating law abiding Virginians to carry firearms while working behind the counter at state controlled establishment. I ask you to review this policy, and let every law abiding Virginian enjoyall the freedoms allotted to us.



    Respectfully,

    Rob99VMI04

    Guys/gals add anything you want let me know your thoughts. Oo and my feeling won't be hurt if you add a comma here and rework a sentence there, or add complete paragraphs.

  2. #2
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705

    Post imported post

    I would suggest that you wait until after January 16, 2010 to send such a letter.

    TFred


  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Arlington, ,
    Posts
    20

    Post imported post

    I also understand that McDonnell has already indicated intent to sell off (privatize) the ABC stores, rendering your point immaterial. Can anyone confirm this?

  4. #4
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northern Piedmont of Virginia
    Posts
    2,373

    Post imported post

    I like to make reference to the regulations that prohibit employees from being able to defend themselves. I'd ask why the Commonwealth wants its employees to be defenseless.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  5. #5
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705

    Post imported post

    RPW wrote:
    I also understand that McDonnell has already indicated intent to sell off (privatize) the ABC stores, rendering your point immaterial. Can anyone confirm this?
    That was definitely one of his big campaign talking points. I have no idea if it would be a good idea, or if he will actually do it.

    TFred


  6. #6
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,848

    Post imported post

    TFred wrote:
    I would suggest that you wait until after January 16, 2010 to send such a letter.
    +1
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  7. #7
    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Accomac, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,213

    Post imported post

    TFred wrote:
    I would suggest that you wait until after January 16, 2010 to send such a letter.

    TFred
    +1
    Yes I carry a Bible and a Gun, your point.
    Vindiciae Contra Tyrannos (meaning: "A defence of liberty against tyrants")
    Benjamin Franklin said, "A government that does not trust it's citizens with guns is a government that should not be trusted."



  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Eastern Prince William Co. VA, ,
    Posts
    306

    Post imported post

    A few comments:

    1. ABC stores are NOT ABC-On, thus concealed carry with a permit should be legal.

    2. Since they are State Owned, the preemption law applies.

    3. Apparently, if you are EMPLOYED by a government entity within the State of Virginia they can forbid you to have a firearm on the property...WHILE YOU ARE "ON THE CLOCK".

    I took a job with Prince WilliamCounty and was informed, during the initiation,that as employees we were not allowed to bring firearms onto County property. After the in-briefing, Iapproachedthe lecturer and askedher about that policy; as anyother citizen is allowed to do so. Actually, she was a strong supporter of theSecond Amendment and the right to carry firearms and we had a nice conversation.

    Sheinformedme that if I was not working ("off-duty", so to speak) that I would certainly be allowed to carry aweapon; but if I was "on the clock", I couldn't.

  9. #9
    Regular Member The Wolfhound's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Henrico, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    697

    Post imported post

    This is true for many State employees. It is not against the law, it is against the Administrative Code. There is no legal "stick" to hold over you but you can loose your job.
    Appleseed, Virginia State Coordinator
    Are you a Rifleman yet?
    http://appleseedinfo.org

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    418

    Post imported post

    I believe the crux of the problem is a "workplace violence" policy crafted by the VA. Dept. of Human Resource Mgt. that forbids all state employees from possessing a firearm at work, on state property, or while conducting state business, unless they are law enforcement. Personally, I see this as an infringement of individual rights and state pre-emption.

    I would suggest you wait until the new administration takes office. Address your letter to the new Attorney General, Ken Cuccinelli, and copy Gov. McDonnell.

    http://www.dhrm.virginia.gov/hrpolicy/web/pol1_80.html

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Hanover County, Virginia, ,
    Posts
    93

    Post imported post


    If you are going to send it, please run it through spell check.

    Forbiddon should be forbidden. Infact should be two words. Differn't should be different.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Augusta/Rockingham County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    67

    Post imported post

    Armed wrote:
    I believe the crux of the problem is a "workplace violence" policy crafted by the VA. Dept. of Human Resource Mgt. that forbids all state employees from possessing a firearm at work, on state property, or while conducting state business, unless they are law enforcement. Personally, I see this as an infringement of individual rights and state pre-emption.

    I would suggest you wait until the new administration takes office. Address your letter to the new Attorney General, Ken Cuccinelli, and copy Gov. McDonnell.

    http://www.dhrm.virginia.gov/hrpolicy/web/pol1_80.html
    Policy Number: 1.80 - Workplace Violence
    Efft. Date: 5/01/02
    Application: Full-time and part-time classified, “at will” and hourly employees.
    PURPOSE To establish a procedure that prohibits violence in the workplace.

    DEFINITIONS
    Workplace

    Any location, either permanent or temporary, where an employee performs any work-related duty. This includes, but is not limited to, the buildings and the surrounding perimeters, including the parking lots, field locations, alternate work locations, and travel to and from work assignments.


    Prohibited actions
    Prohibited conduct includes, but is not limited to:
    • injuring another person physically;
    • engaging in behavior that creates a reasonable fear of injury to another person;
    • engaging in behavior that subjects another individual to extreme emotional distress;
    • possessing, brandishing, or using a weapon that is not required by the individual’s position while on state premises or engaged in state business;
    • intentionally damaging property;
    • threatening to injure an individual or to damage property;
    • committing injurious acts motivated by, or related to, domestic violence or sexual harassment; and
    • retaliating against any employee who, in good faith, reports a violation of this policy.
    Note: Employees may be authorized by their agencies to possess weapons in the workplace if they are required as a part of employees’ job duties with the Commonwealth.

    Policy Violations
    Employees violating this policy will be subject to disciplinary action under Policy 1.60, Standards of Conduct, up to and including termination, based on the situation.

    Violent acts of employees occurring outside the workplace also may be grounds for disciplinary action, up to and including dismissal. In these situations, the agency must demonstrate in writing that the violent conduct committed has an adverse impact on the employee’s ability to perform the assigned duties and responsibilities or that it undermines the effectiveness of the agency’s activities.

    http://www.dhrm.virginia.gov/hrpolicy/web/pol1_80.html


  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Norfolk, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,000

    Post imported post

    Reading through that... it implies that merely possessing a firearm AND being a state employee could get you in trouble.

    I really don't like that policy at all. Reading through the whole thing made me feel dirty.

  14. #14
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,845

    Post imported post

    I agree with the above corrections and the idea to send it AFTER the new "Guv" takes office. The outgoing guy is working hard and fast to destroy any files that might bite him in the butt later. He has enough on his mind...
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    418

    Post imported post

    darthmord wrote:
    Reading through that... it implies that merely possessing a firearm AND being a state employee could get you in trouble.
    Yes, it certainly sounds that way, doesn't it? At a bare minimum, we need a parking lot pre-emption.

    Still, I would question whether this administrative policy is subject to state pre-emption.

    Someone please step in and correct me if my memory is askew, but wasn't it Bob McDonnellhasAttorney General who opined that state agencies may not establish a policy that isinconsistent, or exceeds what is allowable under state law regarding the possession and carrying of firearms? (no firearms in state parks) Wasn't this, at least in part - the basis of that opinion?





  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Fairfax, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    291

    Post imported post

    raftgyde wrote:
    Armed wrote:
    I believe the crux of the problem is a "workplace violence" policy crafted by the VA. Dept. of Human Resource Mgt. that forbids all state employees from possessing a firearm at work, on state property, or while conducting state business, unless they are law enforcement. Personally, I see this as an infringement of individual rights and state pre-emption.

    I would suggest you wait until the new administration takes office. Address your letter to the new Attorney General, Ken Cuccinelli, and copy Gov. McDonnell.

    http://www.dhrm.virginia.gov/hrpolicy/web/pol1_80.html
    Policy Number: 1.80 - Workplace Violence
    Efft. Date: 5/01/02



    Application: Full-time and part-time classified, “at will” and hourly employees.
    PURPOSE To establish a procedure that prohibits violence in the workplace.

    DEFINITIONS
    Workplace

    Any location, either permanent or temporary, where an employee performs any work-related duty. This includes, but is not limited to, the buildings and the surrounding perimeters, including the parking lots, field locations, alternate work locations, and travel to and from work assignments.


    Prohibited actions
    Prohibited conduct includes, but is not limited to:
    • injuring another person physically;
    • engaging in behavior that creates a reasonable fear of injury to another person;
    • engaging in behavior that subjects another individual to extreme emotional distress;
    • possessing, brandishing, or using a weapon that is not required by the individual’s position while on state premises or engaged in state business;
    • intentionally damaging property;
    • threatening to injure an individual or to damage property;
    • committing injurious acts motivated by, or related to, domestic violence or sexual harassment; and
    • retaliating against any employee who, in good faith, reports a violation of this policy.
    Note: Employees may be authorized by their agencies to possess weapons in the workplace if they are required as a part of employees’ job duties with the Commonwealth.

    Policy Violations
    Employees violating this policy will be subject to disciplinary action under Policy 1.60, Standards of Conduct, up to and including termination, based on the situation.

    Violent acts of employees occurring outside the workplace also may be grounds for disciplinary action, up to and including dismissal. In these situations, the agency must demonstrate in writing that the violent conduct committed has an adverse impact on the employee’s ability to perform the assigned duties and responsibilities or that it undermines the effectiveness of the agency’s activities.

    http://www.dhrm.virginia.gov/hrpolicy/web/pol1_80.html



    I guess the reason for my letter is this is a policy not a law. Technically the Govenor could wave the magic governor wand and make this policy go away without going through the law making process.



  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Eastern Prince William Co. VA, ,
    Posts
    306

    Post imported post

    Do you really think that as a county employee, I didn't have my weapon in my car???

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,171

    Post imported post

    raftgyde wrote:
    Armed wrote:
    I believe the crux of the problem is a "workplace violence" policy crafted by the VA. Dept. of Human Resource Mgt. that forbids all state employees from possessing a firearm at work, on state property, or while conducting state business, unless they are law enforcement. Personally, I see this as an infringement of individual rights and state pre-emption.

    I would suggest you wait until the new administration takes office. Address your letter to the new Attorney General, Ken Cuccinelli, and copy Gov. McDonnell.

    http://www.dhrm.virginia.gov/hrpolicy/web/pol1_80.html



    Policy Number: 1.80 - Workplace Violence
    Efft. Date: 5/01/02







    Application: Full-time and part-time classified, “at will” and hourly employees.
    PURPOSE To establish a procedure that prohibits violence in the workplace.

    DEFINITIONS
    Workplace

    Any location, either permanent or temporary, where an employee performs any work-related duty. This includes, but is not limited to, the buildings and the surrounding perimeters, including the parking lots, field locations, alternate work locations, and travel to and from work assignments.


    Prohibited actions
    Prohibited conduct includes, but is not limited to:
    • injuring another person physically;
    • engaging in behavior that creates a reasonable fear of injury to another person;
    • engaging in behavior that subjects another individual to extreme emotional distress;
    • possessing, brandishing, or using a weapon that is not required by the individual’s position while on state premises or engaged in state business;
    • intentionally damaging property;
    • threatening to injure an individual or to damage property;
    • committing injurious acts motivated by, or related to, domestic violence or sexual harassment; and
    • retaliating against any employee who, in good faith, reports a violation of this policy.
    Note: Employees may be authorized by their agencies to possess weapons in the workplace if they are required as a part of employees’ job duties with the Commonwealth.

    Policy Violations
    Employees violating this policy will be subject to disciplinary action under Policy 1.60, Standards of Conduct, up to and including termination, based on the situation.

    Violent acts of employees occurring outside the workplace also may be grounds for disciplinary action, up to and including dismissal. In these situations, the agency must demonstrate in writing that the violent conduct committed has an adverse impact on the employee’s ability to perform the assigned duties and responsibilities or that it undermines the effectiveness of the agency’s activities.

    http://www.dhrm.virginia.gov/hrpolicy/web/pol1_80.html
    What are you to do if you have a 2nd job (as many state employees do) that requires the carrying of a firearm? Based on this "policy" anyone caught with a gun in their car is screwed.

    HR weenies seem to never be able to answer a question when asked but always state "I will have to check on that and get back to you", which they rarely ever do. God forbid you ask them about your "benefits".




Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •