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input request for letter I want to send to Governor

rob99vmi04

Regular Member
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
291
Location
Fairfax, Virginia, USA
imported post

Dear Governor,

Today I had the pleasure of shopping at one of many fine ABC stores operated by the state of Virginia. Upon check out, I had a conversation with one of the store clerks. Somehow we managed to get on the topic of firearms. I proceeded to ask him whether or not he was allowed to carry a firearm while working at an ABC store. He replied that he was forbiddon from carrying a gun at work; however, he also added that he would carry if he was allowed to, but he needed the job.

I assume the restrictions on employees carrying firearms at ABC storesis a policy decision, since according to the code of Virginia, it is infact legal to carry a concealed firearm into an ABC store by a individual possessing a concealed handgun permit recognized by the Commonwealth of Virginia, and it is also legal for somebody to carry a firearm into an ABC store openly without a permit.Since manyABC stores are visited bymany differn't patrons with many differn't motives, I do not understand why there is a policy on Virginia employees regulating law abiding Virginians to carry firearms while working behind the counter at state controlled establishment. I ask you to review this policy, and let every law abiding Virginian enjoyall the freedoms allotted to us.



Respectfully,

Rob99VMI04

Guys/gals add anything you want let me know your thoughts. Oo and my feeling won't be hurt if you add a comma here and rework a sentence there, or add complete paragraphs.
 

RPW

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Arlington, ,
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I also understand that McDonnell has already indicated intent to sell off (privatize) the ABC stores, rendering your point immaterial. Can anyone confirm this?
 

user

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Northern Piedmont
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I like to make reference to the regulations that prohibit employees from being able to defend themselves. I'd ask why the Commonwealth wants its employees to be defenseless.
 

TFred

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Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
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RPW wrote:
I also understand that McDonnell has already indicated intent to sell off (privatize) the ABC stores, rendering your point immaterial. Can anyone confirm this?
That was definitely one of his big campaign talking points. I have no idea if it would be a good idea, or if he will actually do it.

TFred
 

Don Barnett

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A few comments:

1. ABC stores are NOT ABC-On, thus concealed carry with a permit should be legal.

2. Since they are State Owned, the preemption law applies.

3. Apparently, if you are EMPLOYED by a government entity within the State of Virginia they can forbid you to have a firearm on the property...WHILE YOU ARE "ON THE CLOCK".

I took a job with Prince WilliamCounty and was informed, during the initiation,that as employees we were not allowed to bring firearms onto County property. After the in-briefing, Iapproachedthe lecturer and askedher about that policy; as anyother citizen is allowed to do so. Actually, she was a strong supporter of theSecond Amendment and the right to carry firearms and we had a nice conversation.

Sheinformedme that if I was not working ("off-duty", so to speak) that I would certainly be allowed to carry aweapon; but if I was "on the clock", I couldn't.
 

The Wolfhound

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Sep 3, 2009
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Location
Henrico, Virginia, USA
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This is true for many State employees. It is not against the law, it is against the Administrative Code. There is no legal "stick" to hold over you but you can loose your job.
 

Armed

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Messages
418
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
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I believe the crux of the problem is a "workplace violence" policy crafted by the VA. Dept. of Human Resource Mgt. that forbids all state employees from possessing a firearm at work, on state property, or while conducting state business, unless they are law enforcement. Personally, I see this as an infringement of individual rights and state pre-emption.

I would suggest you wait until the new administration takes office. Address your letter to the new Attorney General, Ken Cuccinelli, and copy Gov. McDonnell.

http://www.dhrm.virginia.gov/hrpolicy/web/pol1_80.html
 

raftgyde

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2009
Messages
67
Location
Augusta/Rockingham County, Virginia, USA
imported post

Armed wrote:
I believe the crux of the problem is a "workplace violence" policy crafted by the VA. Dept. of Human Resource Mgt. that forbids all state employees from possessing a firearm at work, on state property, or while conducting state business, unless they are law enforcement. Personally, I see this as an infringement of individual rights and state pre-emption.

I would suggest you wait until the new administration takes office. Address your letter to the new Attorney General, Ken Cuccinelli, and copy Gov. McDonnell.

http://www.dhrm.virginia.gov/hrpolicy/web/pol1_80.html
[align=left] Policy Number: 1.80 - Workplace Violence
Efft. Date: 5/01/02
[/align][align=left] [/align][align=left]Application: Full-time and part-time classified, “at will” and hourly employees.[/align] PURPOSE To establish a procedure that prohibits violence in the workplace.

DEFINITIONS
Workplace

Any location, either permanent or temporary, where an employee performs any work-related duty. This includes, but is not limited to, the buildings and the surrounding perimeters, including the parking lots, field locations, alternate work locations, and travel to and from work assignments.


Prohibited actions
Prohibited conduct includes, but is not limited to:
  • injuring another person physically;
  • engaging in behavior that creates a reasonable fear of injury to another person;
  • engaging in behavior that subjects another individual to extreme emotional distress;
  • possessing, brandishing, or using a weapon that is not required by the individual’s position while on state premises or engaged in state business;
  • intentionally damaging property;
  • threatening to injure an individual or to damage property;
  • committing injurious acts motivated by, or related to, domestic violence or sexual harassment; and
  • retaliating against any employee who, in good faith, reports a violation of this policy.
Note: Employees may be authorized by their agencies to possess weapons in the workplace if they are required as a part of employees’ job duties with the Commonwealth.

Policy Violations
Employees violating this policy will be subject to disciplinary action under Policy 1.60, Standards of Conduct, up to and including termination, based on the situation.

Violent acts of employees occurring outside the workplace also may be grounds for disciplinary action, up to and including dismissal. In these situations, the agency must demonstrate in writing that the violent conduct committed has an adverse impact on the employee’s ability to perform the assigned duties and responsibilities or that it undermines the effectiveness of the agency’s activities.

http://www.dhrm.virginia.gov/hrpolicy/web/pol1_80.html
 

darthmord

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
998
Location
Norfolk, Virginia, USA
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Reading through that... it implies that merely possessing a firearm AND being a state employee could get you in trouble.

I really don't like that policy at all. Reading through the whole thing made me feel dirty.
 

MSC 45ACP

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
2,840
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
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I agree with the above corrections and the idea to send it AFTER the new "Guv" takes office. The outgoing guy is working hard and fast to destroy any files that might bite him in the butt later. He has enough on his mind...
 

Armed

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
418
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
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darthmord wrote:
Reading through that... it implies that merely possessing a firearm AND being a state employee could get you in trouble.
Yes, it certainly sounds that way, doesn't it? At a bare minimum, we need a parking lot pre-emption.

Still, I would question whether this administrative policy is subject to state pre-emption.

Someone please step in and correct me if my memory is askew, but wasn't it Bob McDonnellhasAttorney General who opined that state agencies may not establish a policy that isinconsistent, or exceeds what is allowable under state law regarding the possession and carrying of firearms? (no firearms in state parks) Wasn't this, at least in part - the basis of that opinion?
 

rob99vmi04

Regular Member
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
291
Location
Fairfax, Virginia, USA
imported post

raftgyde wrote:
Armed wrote:
I believe the crux of the problem is a "workplace violence" policy crafted by the VA. Dept. of Human Resource Mgt. that forbids all state employees from possessing a firearm at work, on state property, or while conducting state business, unless they are law enforcement. Personally, I see this as an infringement of individual rights and state pre-emption.

I would suggest you wait until the new administration takes office. Address your letter to the new Attorney General, Ken Cuccinelli, and copy Gov. McDonnell.

http://www.dhrm.virginia.gov/hrpolicy/web/pol1_80.html

[align=left]Policy Number: 1.80 - Workplace Violence
Efft. Date: 5/01/02
[/align]
[align=left]

[align=left]Application: Full-time and part-time classified, “at will” and hourly employees.[/align]PURPOSE To establish a procedure that prohibits violence in the workplace.

DEFINITIONS
Workplace

Any location, either permanent or temporary, where an employee performs any work-related duty. This includes, but is not limited to, the buildings and the surrounding perimeters, including the parking lots, field locations, alternate work locations, and travel to and from work assignments.


Prohibited actions
Prohibited conduct includes, but is not limited to:
  • injuring another person physically;
  • engaging in behavior that creates a reasonable fear of injury to another person;
  • engaging in behavior that subjects another individual to extreme emotional distress;
  • possessing, brandishing, or using a weapon that is not required by the individual’s position while on state premises or engaged in state business;
  • intentionally damaging property;
  • threatening to injure an individual or to damage property;
  • committing injurious acts motivated by, or related to, domestic violence or sexual harassment; and
  • retaliating against any employee who, in good faith, reports a violation of this policy.
Note: Employees may be authorized by their agencies to possess weapons in the workplace if they are required as a part of employees’ job duties with the Commonwealth.

Policy Violations
Employees violating this policy will be subject to disciplinary action under Policy 1.60, Standards of Conduct, up to and including termination, based on the situation.

Violent acts of employees occurring outside the workplace also may be grounds for disciplinary action, up to and including dismissal. In these situations, the agency must demonstrate in writing that the violent conduct committed has an adverse impact on the employee’s ability to perform the assigned duties and responsibilities or that it undermines the effectiveness of the agency’s activities.

http://www.dhrm.virginia.gov/hrpolicy/web/pol1_80.html

I guess the reason for my letter is this is a policy not a law. Technically the Govenor could wave the magic governor wand and make this policy go away without going through the law making process.[/align]
 

Don Barnett

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Messages
451
Location
, ,
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Do you really think that as a county employee, I didn't have my weapon in my car???
 

va_tazdad

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
1,162
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
imported post

raftgyde wrote:
Armed wrote:
I believe the crux of the problem is a "workplace violence" policy crafted by the VA. Dept. of Human Resource Mgt. that forbids all state employees from possessing a firearm at work, on state property, or while conducting state business, unless they are law enforcement. Personally, I see this as an infringement of individual rights and state pre-emption.

I would suggest you wait until the new administration takes office. Address your letter to the new Attorney General, Ken Cuccinelli, and copy Gov. McDonnell.

http://www.dhrm.virginia.gov/hrpolicy/web/pol1_80.html




[align=left]Policy Number: 1.80 - Workplace Violence
Efft. Date: 5/01/02
[/align]






[align=left]Application: Full-time and part-time classified, “at will” and hourly employees.[/align]PURPOSE To establish a procedure that prohibits violence in the workplace.

DEFINITIONS
Workplace

Any location, either permanent or temporary, where an employee performs any work-related duty. This includes, but is not limited to, the buildings and the surrounding perimeters, including the parking lots, field locations, alternate work locations, and travel to and from work assignments.


Prohibited actions
Prohibited conduct includes, but is not limited to:
  • injuring another person physically;
  • engaging in behavior that creates a reasonable fear of injury to another person;
  • engaging in behavior that subjects another individual to extreme emotional distress;
  • possessing, brandishing, or using a weapon that is not required by the individual’s position while on state premises or engaged in state business;
  • intentionally damaging property;
  • threatening to injure an individual or to damage property;
  • committing injurious acts motivated by, or related to, domestic violence or sexual harassment; and
  • retaliating against any employee who, in good faith, reports a violation of this policy.
Note: Employees may be authorized by their agencies to possess weapons in the workplace if they are required as a part of employees’ job duties with the Commonwealth.

Policy Violations
Employees violating this policy will be subject to disciplinary action under Policy 1.60, Standards of Conduct, up to and including termination, based on the situation.

Violent acts of employees occurring outside the workplace also may be grounds for disciplinary action, up to and including dismissal. In these situations, the agency must demonstrate in writing that the violent conduct committed has an adverse impact on the employee’s ability to perform the assigned duties and responsibilities or that it undermines the effectiveness of the agency’s activities.

http://www.dhrm.virginia.gov/hrpolicy/web/pol1_80.html
What are you to do if you have a 2nd job (as many state employees do) that requires the carrying of a firearm? Based on this "policy" anyone caught with a gun in their car is screwed.

HR weenies seem to never be able to answer a question when asked but always state "I will have to check on that and get back to you", which they rarely ever do. God forbid you ask them about your "benefits":banghead:.



 
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