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Thread: Gun Show - Sellers watch out

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    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    My understanding is that these guys are becoming increasingly aggressive in their attempt to show how "the gun show loophole" is allowing crazy illegal immigrants who've committed felonies to buy guns. If someone offers to buy a gun from you, but won't show you (1) something that identifies who he is and (2) that he's a resident of the Commonwealth *; OR tells you something like he probably couldn't pass a background check; he's probably scamming you with the intention of having the VSP take you out in handcuffs.

    If something like that happens, ask the prospective purchaser to wait a minute while you "go ask your friend, the real owner of the gun" if he's sure he wants to sell it, or some such excuse. Then go find a cop and report the felonious attempt to gain possession of the firearm illegally. The mere attempt to acquire the gun is a felony. And the cops CAN arrest for a felony not committed in their presence. So if they say, "that's a civil matter", or "I didn't see it happen", ask them whether they're personally in favor of felons acquiring weapons unlawfully at gun shows, because you think the news services would have a field day with that one. And be sure to look at their name tag and badge.

    The NYPD are NOT law enforcement officers in Virginia! They are NOT cops while they're here, and they have no law enforcement authority. So if they attempt to purchase weapons knowing themselves to be residents of another state, that's a felony in Virginia!

    (* The documents proving identity and residency don't have to be the same document, though a U.S. Passport or a Va. driver's license would do for both, if they state a Virginia address. And it is possible for a person to be a resident of more than one state for gun transfer purposes, so someone could show a S.C. driver's license that identifies them, along with a property tax receipt showing a residence in Virginia. It's lawful for such a person to purchase a firearm in Virginia during such time as he's actually a resident of Virginia, even if he lives somewhere else most of the year.)
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    user wrote:
    My understanding is that these guys are becoming increasingly aggressive in their attempt to show how "the gun show loophole" is allowing crazy illegal immigrants who've committed felonies to buy guns. If someone offers to buy a gun from you, but won't show you (1) something that identifies who he is and (2) that he's a resident of the Commonwealth *; OR tells you something like he probably couldn't pass a background check; he's probably scamming you with the intention of having the VSP take you out in handcuffs.

    If something like that happens, ask the prospective purchaser to wait a minute while you "go ask your friend, the real owner of the gun" if he's sure he wants to sell it, or some such excuse. Then go find a cop and report the felonious attempt to gain possession of the firearm illegally. The mere attempt to acquire the gun is a felony. And the cops CAN arrest for a felony not committed in their presence. So if they say, "that's a civil matter", or "I didn't see it happen", ask them whether they're personally in favor of felons acquiring weapons unlawfully at gun shows, because you think the news services would have a field day with that one. And be sure to look at their name tag and badge.

    The NYPD are NOT law enforcement officers in Virginia! They are NOT cops while they're here, and they have no law enforcement authority. So if they attempt to purchase weapons knowing themselves to be residents of another state, that's a felony in Virginia!

    (* The documents proving identity and residency don't have to be the same document, though a U.S. Passport or a Va. driver's license would do for both, if they state a Virginia address. And it is possible for a person to be a resident of more than one state for gun transfer purposes, so someone could show a S.C. driver's license that identifies them, along with a property tax receipt showing a residence in Virginia. It's lawful for such a person to purchase a firearm in Virginia during such time as he's actually a resident of Virginia, even if he lives somewhere else most of the year.)
    beautiful!
    Carry On.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    They woulda loved the guy who walked into the RIR gun show this weekend with a full auto AR and no paperwork!
    James Reynolds

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    Regular Member AtackDuck's Avatar
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    Do you really think Bloomers would send his flunkies to Virginia, after McDonnell threatened to lower the boom on him if tried it again? Oh yeah, it's Bloomers; DUH!

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    I think this is the law that they pushed through specifically for these twerps...

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...071+sum+HB2653

    Is that right? It happened before I started paying attention...

    TFred

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    As I recall, they did not use NYPD personnel during the sting operation in VA; they hired local VA "investigators" who were citizens of the Commonwealth. The result was that they "simulated" straw or illegal purchases, but in fact committed no crimes. That is why McDonnell et al worked to get this latest law passed, in order to have SOMETHING to arrest them on if they tried it again here...

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    ProShooter wrote:
    They woulda loved the guy who walked into the RIR gun show this weekend with a full auto AR and no paperwork!
    What was it? A bring back or a home brew?

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    user wrote:
    So if they attempt to purchase weapons knowing themselves to be residents of another state, that's a felony in Virginia!

    Cite please.

    Is this felony based upon Federal or State Law?

    I ask because I can find no prohibition in§ 18.2-308.2:2. that could be construed as pertaining to private transfers unless section M would pertain to the original private sale buyer, who is buying for themselves. (As I read M it requires a further transfer, or intent to do the samefrom the original buyer to someone else)

    ..or are you basing the felony claim on the Bloomberg law? My understanding is that the Bloomberg Law only applies if someone is enticing a dealer.

    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    67GT390FB wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    They woulda loved the guy who walked into the RIR gun show this weekend with a full auto AR and no paperwork!
    What was it? A bring back or a home brew?
    Didnt get close enough to see it clearly....didn't want to get close enough either!
    James Reynolds

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    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    They woulda loved the guy who walked into the RIR gun show this weekend with a full auto AR and no paperwork!
    There was another idiot at the RIR gunshow. He had a ballistic vest on backwards and went to a Henrico cop that was at the back door an complained that the cop taking the zip ties off at the front scratched his new pistol. I don't think the moron realized that they were two different agencies. While he was complaining he had the gun in his hand and he pointed the gun at the cop. He was loud and talking with his hands and he kind of pointedit at him sideways saying the cop was responsible for the scratched gun. I told him to watch where he pointed the gun.

    This guy said he was going back to the table that he got the gun from and if they didn't replace itthat he held Henrico responsible. He came away with an AR.

    I hated this guy. I wanted to grab his ugly ass face and shake the hell out of him. He would have been a poster-child for the anti's.

    I'm a little irritated right now. I just read the story of the supposed hunter shooting two college kids looking for frogs. I too feel like we are being infiltrated every day, by anti's and idiots.
    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
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    I just heard about that on the radio on my way back from class. How the hell do you mistake two college students for a deer?!

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    In a very famous book well known in the gun culture, there is an incident in a gun show which plays out rather interestingly. Makes me wonder if this could really happen.

    The main character was helping a friend at a gun show. The friend was FFL and also sold Class 3 firearms. A man approached the display tables and started to question the helping friend about how to make semi-autos into fully automatic weapons. The helper suddenly pulled his sidearm on the man, telling him not to move then yelled for someone to get the state police and the AFT. Seems it is illegal to try to get someone to tell you how to modify a firearm into full auto without it being sent through the ATF.

    The funny thing was the man who was asking questions was an undercover ATF man who was trying to trap the dealer and the helping man knew what was happening. Question is this. Did the undercover ATF man break the law and was the helping man acting within the law?


    BTW, the book is "Unintended Consequences" by John Ross.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Regular Member jmb_nova's Avatar
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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    In a very famous book well known in the gun culture, there is an incident in a gun show which plays out rather interestingly. Makes me wonder if this could really happen.

    The main character was helping a friend at a gun show. The friend was FFL and also sold Class 3 firearms. A man approached the display tables and started to question the helping friend about how to make semi-autos into fully automatic weapons. The helper suddenly pulled his sidearm on the man, telling him not to move then yelled for someone to get the state police and the AFT. Seems it is illegal to try to get someone to tell you how to modify a firearm into full auto without it being sent through the ATF.

    The funny thing was the man who was asking questions was an undercover ATF man who was trying to trap the dealer and the helping man knew what was happening. Question is this. Did the undercover ATF man break the law and was the helping man acting within the law?


    BTW, the book is "Unintended Consequences" by John Ross.
    Wouldn't that make it entrapment? A cop breaking the law to get you to break the law??

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    T Dubya wrote:
    There was another idiot at the RIR gunshow. He had a ballistic vest on backwards ...

    I saw that guy too...blue vest, black beard, right?

    I was flagged at least 5 times this weekend. I watched a small time dealer hand a pistol to a couple without opening the action. They each took the gun, pointed it across the aisle at the legs ofmy assistant and I, and pulled the trigger.I wish people would pay attention to muzzle control....sad part is, those are the people who probably say " I don't need any firearms safety training".

    I also had a woman ask me where she could buy some musket balls for her civil war rifle. She "had to have musket balls". Naturally I directed her down an aisle to a dealer selling old guns.
    James Reynolds

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    Regular Member jmb_nova's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    T Dubya wrote:
    There was another idiot at the RIR gunshow. He had a ballistic vest on backwards ...

    I saw that guy too...blue vest, black beard, right?

    I was flagged at least 5 times this weekend. I watched a small time dealer hand a pistol to a couple without opening the action. They each took the gun, pointed it across the aisle at the legs ofmy assistant and I, and pulled the trigger.I wish people would pay attention to muzzle control....sad part is, those are the people who probably say " I don't need any firearms safety training".

    I also had a woman ask me where she could buy some musket balls for her civil war rifle. She "had to have musket balls". Naturally I directed her down an aisle to a dealer selling old guns.

    LOL... I get flagged everytime I go. I must be an a-hole magnet or something; they always seem to find me.


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    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    T Dubya wrote:
    There was another idiot at the RIR gunshow. He had a ballistic vest on backwards ...

    I saw that guy too...blue vest, black beard, right?


    That's the idiot, if I see him again acting the way he did I'm going to complain and possibly call 911. That guy was irate, talking with his hands and pointed the gun at the cop when he said that the he (the police) would be responsible for getting him a new pistol.



    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    T Dubya wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    T Dubya wrote:
    There was another idiot at the RIR gunshow. He had a ballistic vest on backwards ...

    I saw that guy too...blue vest, black beard, right?



    That's the idiot, if I see him again acting the way he did I'm going to complain and possibly call 911. That guy was irate, talking with his hands and pointed the gun at the cop when he said that the he (the police) would be responsible for getting him a new pistol.


    Where did you get this information User?

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    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    whoops


    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

  19. #19
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Sorry, hit the wrong quote button

    User....where did you get this information?

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    hunter45 wrote:
    I just heard about that on the radio on my way back from class. How the hell do you mistake two college students for a deer?!
    That's because people who are consumed with deer fervor shoot at noise, or color or movement without being "sure of their target and beyond."

    I'm still surprised when I see people traipsing around in the woods when hunting season is on, and they don't even have on blaze orange. Hikers should wear blaze orange.

    I saw a strange sight in Rockbridge County once when I was out with my friend deer hunting. I saw some hikers who had their black dog, with them. They carried a branch with them that looked like deer antlers. I went up to the woman with her friend, said "don't you know it's general firearms season?" I said, "I would at least have on blaze orange, and especially have it on my dog, besides I didn't advise that she carry a branch that looked like deer antlers." Where she was hiking was wall-to-wall hunter. Any one of them could have shot that bunch of loons. It was so crowded that my friend and I left.


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    packingdressagerider wrote:
    ............
    I'm still surprised when I see people traipsing around in the woods when hunting season is on, and they don't even have on blaze orange. Hikers should wear blaze orange.

    I saw a strange sight in Rockbridge County once when I was out with my friend deer hunting. I saw some hikers who had their black dog, with them. They carried a branch with them that looked like deer antlers. I went up to the woman with her friend, said "don't you know it's general firearms season?" I said, "I would at least have on blaze orange, and especially have it on my dog, besides I didn't advise that she carry a branch that looked like deer antlers." Where she was hiking was wall-to-wall hunter. Any one of them could have shot that bunch of loons. It was so crowded that my friend and I left.


    With props to Jeff Cooper....





    The Four Rules



    One of Jeff Cooper'struly best, yet least appreciated, contributions to shooting in general has been the Four Rules of firearms safety. These four rules distill the often multitudinous rules promulgated by many organizations into four easy to remember principles that if followed explicitly will guarantee firearms safety. (NRA please take note.)

    • All firearms are loaded. - There are no exceptions. Don't pretend that this is true. Know that it is and handle all firearms accordingly. Do not believe it when someone says: "It isn't loaded."
    • Never let the muzzle of a firearm point at anything you are not willing to destroy. - If you would not want to see a bullet hole in it do not allow a firearm's muzzle to point at it. EVER!
    • Keep your finger off the trigger unless your sights are on the target. - Danger abounds if you keep your finger on the trigger when you are not about to shoot. Speed is not gained by prematurely placing your finger on the trigger as bringing a firearm to bear on a target takes more time than it takes to move your finger to the trigger.
    • Be sure of your target and what is behind it. - Never shoot at sounds or a target you cannot positively identify. Know what is in line with the target and what is behind it (bullets are designed to go through things). Be aware of your surroundings whether on a range, in the woods, or in a potentially lethal conflict.


    If you can't positively identify it as a deer, you shouldn't be shooting!
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
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  22. #22
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    jmb_nova wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    In a very famous book well known in the gun culture, there is an incident in a gun show which plays out rather interestingly. Makes me wonder if this could really happen.

    The main character was helping a friend at a gun show. The friend was FFL and also sold Class 3 firearms. A man approached the display tables and started to question the helping friend about how to make semi-autos into fully automatic weapons. The helper suddenly pulled his sidearm on the man, telling him not to move then yelled for someone to get the state police and the AFT. Seems it is illegal to try to get someone to tell you how to modify a firearm into full auto without it being sent through the ATF.

    The funny thing was the man who was asking questions was an undercover ATF man who was trying to trap the dealer and the helping man knew what was happening. Question is this. Did the undercover ATF man break the law and was the helping man acting within the law?


    BTW, the book is "Unintended Consequences" by John Ross.
    Wouldn't that make it entrapment? A cop breaking the law to get you to break the law??
    One would think so which was why I asked the question. Of course the book is a work of fiction, but it does present an interesting scenario. Whenever I am at gun shows, I am cautious about with whom I speak and the subject matter unless I know the individual, just for these reasons.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  23. #23
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    If you can't positively identify it as a deer, you shouldn't be shooting!
    Someone should have told that to Dick Cheney.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Whenever I am at gun shows, I am cautious about with whom I speak and the subject matter unless I know the individual
    Why? If you're not planning on doing anything illegal...what do you have to hide?

  25. #25
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    wylde007 wrote:
    If you can't positively identify it as a deer, you shouldn't be shooting!
    Someone should have told that to Dick Cheney.
    I know about his quail hunting accident, but what happened when Dickwas deer hunting?
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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