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Citizens searched at Gloucester supervisors meeting

DrMark

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I've been hearing that a judge holds court sessions there once in a while to keep its "courthouse" status. If so, that might keep the Sherriff out of hot water legally.

I'll try to find something written/online to reference what I've been hearing.
 

Thundar

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Bill in VA wrote:
Thundar wrote:
Bill in VA wrote:
simmonsjoe wrote:
... 'courthouse' is DEFINED BY LAW. ...
What law? Cite please.
Valid court case law: Only that part of the courthouse building necessary for the use and occupancy of the circuit court constituted the courthouse

Link: http://www.virginia1774.org/CourthouseArea.html
"Case law" is not "law" per se; it is precedent and thus interpretation of law ("regulatory law" if you prefer), not statutory law. simmons said "courthouse" is defined by law. I asked him, what law? Where in the statutes is "courthouse" defined? You and I both know it is not defined in the statutes. Using the case law you've provided "corthouse" is still only defined in an ancillary way
What the precedent says is that the building is NOT the courthouse. But ifI understand your thesis, common law is not law per se, right?
 

DrMark

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DrMark wrote:
I've been hearing that a judge holds court sessions there once in a while to keep its "courthouse" status. If so, that might keep the Sherriff out of hot water legally.

I'll try to find something written/online to reference what I've been hearing.

Ah, here we go:
At least once a year a judge holds a court session in the Colonial Courthouse to ensure it will be counted among the longest continuously used courthouses. That also means visitors can be barred from taking weapons in the courthouse, even if they have a concealed weapons permit.
http://www.dailypress.com/news/dp-local_glosecurity_1119nov19,0,6952754.story
 

Grapeshot

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DrMark wrote:
I've been hearing that a judge holds court sessions there once in a while to keep its "courthouse" status. If so, that might keep the Sherriff out of hot water legally.

I'll try to find something written/online to reference what I've been hearing.
Since "courthouse" is not defined by statute, if the judge held sessions in a park pavilion would it be considered a courthouse :question:

I do not mean for that one, particular session, but for all time. Somehow I don't think so.

Yata hey
 

Virginiaplanter

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Historically speaking no. When the court was in session, all those who had business before the court were to come before the bar of the King's justice. Only officers of the court were allowed to pass that physical barrier called the bar that separated the bystanders from the court officers.

Oyez, oyez, oyez! All persons having business before this honorable court are admonished to draw near to the bar of the King's Justice and give their attention, for the Court is now sitting. Silence is commanded upon pain of imprisonment. God save the King.”
 

simmonsjoe

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This is a blatant attempt at violating the intent of the law.

However I was wrong. The only definition I could find
actually defined 'court' only, and that definition actually states
a room where court is being held is a courtroom.

So the law decides a courtroom by the act of court being held.
so a courtroom used for other purposes, is during that time,
legally not a courtroom.

For courthouse however, there is no legal definition, however
there are laws regarding courthouses, including the renting of
unused rooms in a courthouse
.

This means you can't infer courthouse from courtroom.


legally, if a word is not defined by law, then the common definition can be assumed
to be the intent of the word

This would lead us to the broader interpretation.of
Merriam-Websters:
1 a : a building in which courts of law are regularly held b : the principal building in which county offices are housed
2 : county seat

Wiktionary:
courthouse
(pluralcourthouses)
  1. A public building housing courts of law.
  2. (US) The public building where most American counties have their county offices.
Princeton Universities WordNet:
Noun
courthouse (a government building that houses the offices of a county government)
courthouse (a building that houses judicial courts)
So lets recap! I've been unable to find a common definition that did not INCLUDE the offices of a county gov't. I even found a few other sites that, like wiktionary, noted the county offices/seats were an american-only courthouse definition.

Therefor this Sheriff STILL HAS NO LEGAL GROUNDS to bar entry to those bearing arms. I don't care if the judge holds court there once a year, as long as the County Seat is in the new courthouse, it only counts for prosperity, not for legalities.

Oddly enough, most counties, like KING & QUEEN, only bar firearms in the courtroom, and not in the whole courthouse where the county seat is located. Also City Seats are generally in a City hall and seperated from the courthouses, yet they can only ban weapons in the courthouses and not city hall.

This might mean it actually is legal to ban guns in city hall, Go figure.
 

Grapeshot

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simmonsjoe wrote:
snip.....
Oddly enough, most counties, like KING & QUEEN, only bar firearms in the courtroom, and not in the whole courthouse where the county seat is located. Also City Seats are generally in a City hall and seperated from the courthouses, yet they can only ban weapons in the courthouses and not city hall.

This might mean it actually is legal to ban guns in city hall, Go figure.
Don't see it that way at all - state preemption would still prevail.

Yata hey
 

ProShooter

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Virginiaplanter wrote:
Oyez, oyez, oyez! All persons having business before this honorable court are admonished to draw near to the bar of the King's Justice and give their attention, for the Court is now sitting. Silence is commanded upon pain of imprisonment. God save the King.”
Ahhh, music to my ears. I haven't heard those magical words in a long time!
 

Hawkflyer

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Prince William County, Virginia, USA
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Bill in VA wrote:
simmonsjoe wrote:
...  'courthouse' is DEFINED BY LAW.  ...
What law? Cite please.

Clearly Bill is correct as to the code. However reasonable people would agree that Joe may be onto something that gets people around this issue. The situation just cries out for a few hundred OC's to show up for the next meeting.

I find it very interesting that these people voted to spend over $300,000 in tax payer money to offset expenses that they clearly should have paid out of their own pockets, and then take steps to protect themselves from the justifiable outrage of the populous by using publicly funded LEOs to provide them with personal security.

Regards

Could some please remind me again... what country is this?
 

MSC 45ACP

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Please tell me y'all haven't heard the LATEST from across the river...

Those very same fine folks that voted themselves taxpayer $$$ to pay their personal legal expenses have ALSO conned a judge into having the record of their CRIMES EXPUNGED from the records like it never even happened!!!

http://weblogs.dailypress.com/news/local/breakingnews/blog/

What a BUNCH O' SCUMBAGS!!!
 

VCDL President

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Midlothian, Virginia, USA
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Grapeshot wrote:
simmonsjoe wrote:
snip.....
Oddly enough, most counties, like KING & QUEEN, only bar firearms in the courtroom, and not in the whole courthouse where the county seat is located. Also City Seats are generally in a City hall and seperated from the courthouses, yet they can only ban weapons in the courthouses and not city hall.

This might mean it actually is legal to ban guns in city hall, Go figure.
Don't see it that way at all - state preemption would still prevail.

Yata hey
VCDL is working on drafting a bill to fix courthouses...
 
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