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Thread: Eastern Michigan University to discuss guns on campus

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    EMU is having a discussion tomorrow from 3-5pm about allowing students to carry on campus. I'll try and make it.

    If anyone has time could they put links on this thread that prove that allowing students to carry firearms (legally) has not raised the number of gun related violence on other campus'. I know some other states have allowed it. My time is limited today to research this topic.

    I'll take what information is posted with me to argue my side.

    Thanks

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    Sorry about thenumerous posts. This PC froze up.

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    T Vance wrote:
    If anyone has time could they put links on this thread that prove that allowing students to carry firearms (legally) has not raised the number of gun related violence on other campus'.
    Below from <http://concealedcampus.org/common_arguments.php>. There are more "arguments" and answers there that you can prepare yourself with.

    Argument:Guns on campus would lead to an escalation in violent crime.

    Answer:Since the fall semester of 2006, state law has allowed licensed individuals to carry concealed handguns on the campuses of the nine degree-offering public colleges (20 campuses) and one public technical college (10 campuses) in Utah. Concealed carry has been allowed at Colorado State University (Fort Collins, CO) since 2003 and at Blue Ridge Community College (Weyers Cave, VA) since 1995. After allowing concealed carry on campus for a combined total of one hundred semesters, none of these twelve schools has seen a single resulting incident of gun violence (including threats and suicides), a single gun accident, or a single gun theft. Likewise, none of the forty ‘right-to-carry’ states has seen a resulting increase in gun violence since legalizing concealed carry, despite the fact that licensed citizens in those states regularly carry concealed handguns in places like office buildings, movie theaters, grocery stores, shopping malls, restaurants, churches, banks, etc. Numerous studies*, including studies by University of Maryland senior research scientist John Lott, University of Georgia professor David Mustard, engineering statistician William Sturdevant, and various state agencies, show that concealed handgun license holders are five times less likely than non-license holders to commit violent crimes.

    "Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns,” John Lott and David Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies (v.26, no.1, pages 1-68, January 1997);

    “An Analysis of the Arrest Rate of Texas Concealed Handgun License Holders as Compared to the Arrest Rate of the Entire Texas Population,” William E. Sturdevant, September 1, 2000; Florida Department of Justice statistics, 1998; Florida Department of State,

    “Concealed Weapons/Firearms License Statistical Report,” 1998; Texas Department of Public Safety and the U.S. Census Bureau, reported in San Antonio Express-News, September 2000; Texas Department of Corrections data, 1996-2000, compiled by the Texas State Rifle Association
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Regular Member LaVere's Avatar
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    When ever this discusion comes up it only talks about Students ( most generally). When in fact is about all persons leaglly allowed to have a weapon. It also sound like all student of any age can or will be allowed to carry. When in fact it would be students over 21 that can have a CPL and then not conceal ie open carry.

    So if you are 18 to 21 you can carry openly any where except those special zones because you can't get a CPL and not conceal it.

    No wonder most people are confused. For all I know I could be wrong too.

    Why not just carry and carry any way YOU chose that best fits your needs or wants. If you must regester for the draft at 18. Then you should be allowed to carry.

    It works in Vermont are we lesser goodcitizens than they?



    The use of force is a last resort. One aspect of violence is that it is unpredictable. Although your initial intention may be to use limited force, once you have engaged in violence the consequences are unpredictable. Violence always brings about unexpected results and almost always provokes retaliation.

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    LaVere wrote:
    When ever this discusion comes up it only talks about Students ( most generally). When in fact is about all persons leaglly allowed to have a weapon. It also sound like all student of any age can or will be allowed to carry. When in fact it would be over students over 21 that can have a CPL and then not conceal ie open carry.

    No wonder most people are confused. For all I know I could be wrong too.

    Why not just carry and carry any way YOU chose that best fits your needs or wants.

    It works in Vermont are we lesser goodcitizens than they?

    If the bill passed as written it would put colleges, etal in the same area as local governments and preemption would apply. Therefore any body 18 or older could OC everywhere, but no concealed carryin dorms and classrooms.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member LaVere's Avatar
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    Thank Brian:



    Why not just carry and carry any way YOU choose that best fits your needs or wants. If you must regester for the draft at 18. Then you should be allowed to carry.

    It works in Vermont are we lesser goodcitizens than they?





    retorical no answer needed

    Imagine how Chicago, NYC, California persons feel. Just like third world subjects. Second class citizens.
    The use of force is a last resort. One aspect of violence is that it is unpredictable. Although your initial intention may be to use limited force, once you have engaged in violence the consequences are unpredictable. Violence always brings about unexpected results and almost always provokes retaliation.

    Dalai Lama

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    http://www.generalnewsgroup.com/

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    I wasn't able to get out to campus today to attend. Doubt it, but did anyone else go?

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    T Vance,

    I spoke on that panel. It went pretty well, until the opposition (Prof. Union members,) hijacked the discussion and turned it into one about morality and decision making in defensive situations. At that point most of the 70 people who turned out left.

    Other than that it went very well, like I said. Good questions, and really nailed the opposition.

    "A gun is distracting" "A concealed handgun is concealed."
    "The police keep campus safe." "The police won't get there until after I've been robbed."

    Etc. No need to convince anyone here, obviously. It always gets me though, how illogical the arguments are against campus carry. Fortunately, I've found it rather easy (relative to other issues) to persuade someone who is on the fence that campus carry is a good idea.

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    I'm curious ifanyone taped it and will upload it. Thanks for the update.

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    Well, someone over at ypsinews.com was there and taped it. He made a pretty official deal of it as well. And then told me it would be uploaded by the end of the night hopefully. Haven't seen it yet, still waiting on an email response from him.

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    reidksmith wrote:
    T Vance,

    I spoke on that panel. It went pretty well, until the opposition (Prof. Union members,) hijacked the discussion and turned it into one about morality and decision making in defensive situations. At that point most of the 70 people who turned out left.

    Other than that it went very well, like I said. Good questions, and really nailed the opposition.

    "A gun is distracting" "A concealed handgun is concealed."
    "The police keep campus safe." "The police won't get there until after I've been robbed."

    Etc. No need to convince anyone here, obviously. It always gets me though, how illogical the arguments are against campus carry. Fortunately, I've found it rather easy (relative to other issues) to persuade someone who is on the fence that campus carry is a good idea.
    Even the most liberal anti-gun person I know will readily admit that Gun Control Laws do not work on criminals since they will just not follow the law! Imagine that!
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

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