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Requesting 626.9 exemption in San Francisco

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hoffmang

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To an individual with the potential to run up against actual threats to their life at any time (it's not scheduled, it just happens), being told to wait, to not arm himself, to not even make any attempt to arm himself, because it doesn't meet someone else's theoretical "best time" to do it, really does grate on one's nerves.
The difference between an unloaded firearm in a holster and a hammer on the same belt is that the hammer is a more effective form of self defense that requires no letter from the local principal or school superintendent.

I understand that his actually trying to protect himself annoys those playing the larger chess game, but in my mind Real Life™ needs override theory.
If he's trying to protect himself he can use the hammer above or he can carry an unloaded firearm in a locked container and does not need the letter he's suing over.

Maybe that's because I'm an engineer, not a lawyer.
Would you be comfortable stopping a nuclear reactor going critical? You're an engineer so you must know how to move the control rods into place right? I mean, that's self defense!

I expect you know better how to write a unit test, but I hope you'll understand my point. Please also recognize that there is a difference in danger to others in being an engineer at Yahoo! versus the National Security Agency. Not understanding OWASP is bad at both places, but only one can get a lot of people killed.

-Gene
 
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We-the-People

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The bottom line is this.

Attorneys who want to fight the "big game" need to stop crying about the little guys who are out there on the street and dealing with the unconstitutional and unlawful BS on a daily basis.

On a weekly basis I'm being hassled or stalked by one or another of the security "guards" (didn't do much guarding last week when the bookstore was robbed). Why? Because I have the audacity to carry an empty holster on my belt, hand out "open carry is legal" pamphlets to any who ask, carry the laws in my pocket, and refuse to answer their silly little question "are you carrying a gun". Well actually I do answer their question... "I will neither confirm nor deny that I am carrying".

It also really pissed them off at first when I wouldn't give up my ID when they demanded it.....but they have figured out who I am (small campus).

When I'm not on campus (or another prohibited without permission slip) location I'm "sterile". I carry an audio recorder at all times, and I figure some day I'll probably get "hooked up" unlawfully. But I am exercising my RIGHTS and I'll be damned if some hot shot in a suit and tie or a bozo in a security uniform (no offense to the GOOD security guards, did it a while myself) is going to negate my RIGHTS.

I like what Gura does in the courts but he's not on the streets. Heller is nice, McDonald is nice, but peoples lives are at risk NOW....TODAY...TONIGHT.....TOMORROW..... not next month or next year or 5 years from now. When I lived in the DC metro area people did what people had to do to make sure they stayed alive...that's all I'm saying on that other than that anyone who wanted one could have a gun in an hour in DC.

BigToe is doing what he thinks he needs to do. Rather than bitching, wish him luck. Wouldn't you all feel like **** if you logged on to find out that he got mugged and hurt because he couldn't exercise his RIGHT to defend himself because the "plan" hadn't gotten around to him yet?
 

We-the-People

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It's legal. That's all that matters.

POSSESSION and USE isn't illegal (assault weapons are different).

Plenty of exceptions in 12020 to go around.


Importation is. Remember, you live in Oregon, so unless you lived in California before 2000 and left them behind somewhere, or you moved out of state and then you come back in with the same magazines you possessed before 2000 in California, then your importing it and therefor evidence of a crime until the 3 year statute of limitation runs out.

I refer to my first and last lines (quoted above).

Not everyone that knows the law has a law degree. There are a good number of us out here who can read (and yes we know about case law too). Do I know every one of them for every state? Nope, no one does. But I damn well know the ones that might bite me when I'm poking my finger in the big bad wolfs eye!!!!

I was real close to a Cali legal Colt AR15 with 40 round mags, collapsible stock, evil flash suppressor, bayonet lug, and all the other "features"...Now THAT would have been fun!

For Clarification: Gray, I appreciate your pointing out the "importation" issue in case I'd missed that. A lot of people, yourself included, do a lot of good. Some of us just have a major heartburn when we're told to "stand down" or "wait for the big boys" type of "arguments".
 
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Tomas

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Would you be comfortable stopping a nuclear reactor going critical? You're an engineer so you must know how to move the control rods into place right? I mean, that's self defense!

I expect you know better how to write a unit test, but I hope you'll understand my point. Please also recognize that there is a difference in danger to others in being an engineer at Yahoo! versus the National Security Agency. Not understanding OWASP is bad at both places, but only one can get a lot of people killed.

-Gene

Gene, I have no idea why you thought I had anything to do with software, before I retired I engineered hardware (as an EE) and was required to be bonded because the stuff I had my guys build could injure or kill people if not engineered and built correctly. :D

As Gray was warning earlier, one really shouldn't assume what another person's background is. You don't know me, I don't know you, but I'm not a computer programmer, desk jockey, or whatever you might have assumed.

(As to stopping that reactor going critical, I have a basic understanding of the theory and design, but I recognize, also, my limitations - I'm not a tech trained in the operation of the controls. HOWEVER, if it were going critical, and there was no one else to try to bring it under control, I'd do my best, I wouldn't just stand there and watch the pretty lights.

I may still end up radioactive dust, but I also might get it right.

Doing nothing as it goes critical could guarantee failure, but doing the best I could to damp the reaction might avert that.

What would YOU do?) :D
 

sudden valley gunner

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The only problem I see with this is that the justice system is F'd in this country, the everyday layman non lawyer should be able to take a case to court, and the judge should rule by law and constitution and not political persuasions.

I think he should continue with his case if the judge does rule against him it shows that this judge is not acting in their official capacity properly as one of those checks and balances.

We need to work hard to reverse this, the other problem is that all the big time lawyers don't want to reverse that, even those fighting for our rights.

I was told by SAF to just drop my suit and forget about (also told to cover up for awhile and not make waves) , I found another lawyer and the city settled, so I think small guys need to keep up the fight.
 

Gray Peterson

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We need to work hard to reverse this, the other problem is that all the big time lawyers don't want to reverse that, even those fighting for our rights.

Don't want to reverse that? I think you mean "Can't reverse it at this time, without risk of major blowback to our civil liberties in general".

I was told by SAF to just drop my suit and forget about (also told to cover up for awhile and not make waves) , I found another lawyer and the city settled, so I think small guys need to keep up the fight.

You were told by Dave Workman, who is not a lawyer and who has some particular issues with the way you do things.

Drew is competent and knows what he's doing (I have a lot of respect for him). Kevin is doing this pro-per and he has no conlaw experience.
 

markm

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Hey Bigtoe,

I read your PDF and it was very good. Some of the juris doctors who are commenting on this thread may be a little defensive because a layman did a nice job playing "their" game.

Strategically, I don't know if your tactic will backfire; however, I think it is worth "your" effort. Lets think about reality. Obama has been given a new lease on AF1 and the White House with the rebublican House acting to stop progressivism. The power of presidential incumbancy is huge; especially with BO's feeling that using treasury funds for "walking around money" is moral.

What happens when Thomas, or say Scalia gets into a car accident? What if Kennedy has a stroke? What if Alito gets cancer? What if...?

BO apoints a Justice Breyer clone and two years later gun confiscation begins.

GO FOR IT Big Toe!

Deep down, Grey et allia, are probably upset that a lay person can write a decent court document. Your plan is a rational one. Your homework is good. The "big legal guns" have not performed well to date (that was a generalization; a few lawyers have performed very well!!!! Grey, please don't respond line by line as this post is just my layman's opinion. I know, I am not conlaw qualified).

Thanks Big Toe; I printed off a copy of your document for my hard files.

markm
 

Gray Peterson

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Hey Bigtoe,

I read your PDF and it was very good. Some of the juris doctors who are commenting on this thread may be a little defensive because a layman did a nice job playing "their" game.

He did a terrible job, attempting to put into case law the idea that UOC is a perfectly good method of carry. It's not.

Strategically, I don't know if your tactic will backfire; however, I think it is worth "your" effort. Lets think about reality. Obama has been given a new lease on AF1 and the White House with the rebublican House acting to stop progressivism. The power of presidential incumbancy is huge; especially with BO's feeling that using treasury funds for "walking around money" is moral.

What does Obama or the situation happening on the east coast have anything to do with what Mark is doing?

What happens when Thomas, or say Scalia gets into a car accident? What if Kennedy has a stroke? What if Alito gets cancer? What if...?

BO apoints a Justice Breyer clone and two years later gun confiscation begins.

GO FOR IT Big Toe!

Ugh, gods, the logic leap in here is amazing. "Obama will replace one of the Heller Five, so go for it Kevin!!!!! You can save the 2nd amendment!!!" Matthew Gideon may have written his petition of writ for habeas corpus in pencil, but Abe Fortas still argued his case and wrote the merits briefs to the Supreme Court on the idea of court-appointed criminal counsel for the indigent. Kevin is neither a Matthew Gideon or an Abe Fortas.

Deep down, Grey et allia, are probably upset that a lay person can write a decent court document. Your plan is a rational one. Your homework is good. The "big legal guns" have not performed well to date (that was a generalization; a few lawyers have performed very well!!!! Grey, please don't respond line by line as this post is just my layman's opinion. I know, I am not conlaw qualified).

I guess my previous posting, asking you why you're willing to saddle the women of California with a very socially unpopular method of carry (in California) while the Legislature spends a decade or two adjusting to the idea of carry (if they ever do), so them refusing to carry at all and them being targeted, doesn't compute in your logical leaps, or you just don't get it.

This is what happens when you have enthusiasm and critical thinking skills that is on par with underpants gnomes.

Truth hurts, Mark. The fact is that we need both choices protected. Go back to Commonwealth v. Bliss and State v. Nunn to understand what I mean.
 
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CharleyMarbles

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Well I guess my question would be WHAT is the OP doing that is wrong ??? lets face it when my car breaks down I have no choice but to figure out how to fix it as I don't have the funds to pay a professinal to fix it. This has served me well in that I have tought MYSELF how to fix things.

I'll go as far as to relate a story for you.
When I went thru 63W school in the Army (heavy mechanix) I had some trouble falling asleep during school. This was not missed by the instructors and when I got to the end of Dblock I was called into the Master Sargents office and accused of cheating. To prove this the instructors wrote a test off the top of their head. I took the test passed and was told to "GO BACK TO BED" LOL this is a true story and I had never had a bit of formal training but I am blessed with the ability to learn how to figure out things by doing. Consequently I was 2nd in my class :) I got beat out by a fello soldier who could read the hell out of a book but he had a much harder time actualy performing the repairs hands on. I didn't feel bad about being 2nd as he was able to turn in a perfect score on all his written test.

My point is just because you don't have the degree you CAN sometimes manage the actual work :)

Once again I will say to Bigtoe I commend your OBIVOUS commitment to the cause and your IMHO awesome ability to get in there and do a great job of holding your own in an arena I find mindnumbingly illogical where It seams it is purposly so. For the "Professinals" who have nothing to contribute and only jelous degredation to give I say SHAME ON YOU !!!!!
 

Gray Peterson

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For the "Professinals" who have nothing to contribute and only jelous degredation to give I say SHAME ON YOU !!!!!

"Professionals who have nothing to contribute" gave you:

District of Columbia v. Heller
McDonald v. City of Chicago


Those "professionals who have nothing to contribute" made the civil liberties protected by the 2A no longer dead letter in this country, and have filed numerous carefully crafted cases to get take back our right to carry and go beyond.

What has Kevin sacrificed for the cause, other than filing a case so he has a near zero chance of carrying a useless paperweight, to enshrine that into case law? He wins, congrats, he's enshrined unloaded open carry as a plausible carry alternative. If he loses, it's another notch on the belt of the anti-gun legal machine.
 

hoffmang

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What would YOU do?) :D

I'd raise a pot of money and hire a bunch of professional specialists to make sure the nuclear plant didn't go critical in the first place.

Amusing isn't it that that's what happens in real life. The difference is that, in this case, a software engineer (not you Thomas) thinks he knows better than a guy 2-0 on the Supreme Court.

And for the people whining that he has no self defense options, he can put an unloaded firearm in a "locked" fanny pack today and be just as safe as any UOCer while in a school zone.

-Gene
 

chewy352

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And for the people whining that he has no self defense options, he can put an unloaded firearm in a "locked" fanny pack today and be just as safe as any UOCer while in a school zone.

-Gene

Gene,

I respect what you and CGF are doing here in CA but the above comment is just ridiculous. I would like to see you draw and load from a "locked" fanny pack faster than someone drawing and loading from a holster. If you can do it in 3 seconds or less I will gladly eat my words.
 

markm

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Gray, what are your credentials?

Hey Gray,

You are critical of us but you have not cited your own work. Why not? Is your body of work that poor? Or, let me guess, you don't have any notable victories under belt? If you are not "conlaw" qualified then give your opinions in a dignified way and lets have a cordial conversation. You don't use profane language, but your methods are irritating, snarky, and weasally.

Lets have a disagreement and move on. Don't be nasty about it (your words aren't, but your tactics are).

Yes Gura has delivered in a big way. Two huge cases. He is a God, so-to-speak.

Where are the other cases from you and yours?

I have not read where Gura has been critical of Bigtoe, if he has not, please stop dropping his name (use citations please when adding someone elses name to your opinions).

CGF helped Elsensei, but they did not go for the throat! They should have stripped qualified immunity from the cops invlolved.

You are part of what you feel is an elite cadre and you want to protect it (just my gut feeling by reading your snarky remarks).

2-0 is a great record. Where are the other cases. I have been listening to crap like yours for 30 years. Excepting Gura's one victory for Californians, not much has happened since then here in California (I know, Heller was a stepping stone for McDonald; you don't have to snark that statement). I know CGF was instrumental in "shall issue" in Sacramento. At this rate, I may be able to carry a gun in CA with a CCW in fifty years! (don't snark this statement; this is a blog for God's sake).

Gray, stop making this stuff personal. We don't owe you. Please act like a dignified lawyer; you are supposed to be better than us.

markm
 

RockerFor2A

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This intrigues me though. If I have a gun and loaded mag inside a fanny pack which is locked with a small keyed or combo lock, such that one can't get a finger inside that pack, then I'm legal? I swear I'll go shopping for one tomorrow if that's the case.

What are the advantages? Well for starters, no worries about GFZs and also no unwanted LEO attention. Secondly, I really don't always want to announce to the world I'm carrying. It's a pity CCW is so damn impossible to get in San Diego. I have my Florida non-resident permit and I would much rather carry concealed if I could do so legally.

I read on this board about seconds counting and LOC being what many want. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I've made it through 32 years of my *adult* life without being in a situation where a threat presented itself without warning so quickly that if I don't pull a gun and shoot in 2 seconds I'm dead-- obviously or I wouldn't be here. I just haven't pissed anyone off enough that any knife attack from 21 feet or less is imminent. It would have to be completely random. I an far more concerned about being a passer by or in a building during either a potentially deadly domestic dispute or a disgruntled employee scenario, and in those cases I'd rather be incognito with said fanny pack and find cover. I'd feel safer being thought to be one of the "sheeple" than advertising.

Just thinking aloud. I'm not trying to judge others choosing to OC, I just really look forward to the day where we can all obtain CCW permits in San Diego some day, and "self defense" is adequate good cause so long as one is not otherwise prohibited.
 

sudden valley gunner

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Don't want to reverse that? I think you mean "Can't reverse it at this time, without risk of major blowback to our civil liberties in general".



You were told by Dave Workman, who is not a lawyer and who has some particular issues with the way you do things.

The way I do things? Like going about my business open carrying and carrying sterile? What cracks me up is Workman is the first to ask any of us "are you a lawyer". :lol:

Explain how it would be a reversal to our civil liberties, by having judges rule constitutionally and not have to hire expensive lawyers to fight our cases?

Honestly the way I do things? You mean he doesn't like my liberty beliefs?
 

Gray Peterson

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The way I do things? Like going about my business open carrying and carrying sterile? What cracks me up is Workman is the first to ask any of us "are you a lawyer". :lol:

Explain how it would be a reversal to our civil liberties, by having judges rule constitutionally and not have to hire expensive lawyers to fight our cases?

Honestly the way I do things? You mean he doesn't like my liberty beliefs?

I never said I agreed with him 100 percent of the time. :)
 

Thundar

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Well,

Post McDonald there is an expectation that any diminishment of weapons rights requires due process because the 2nd A was incorporated via due process. (That is because Gura did not succeed in resurecting the priveledges and immunities clause when he went before SCOTUS.)

An arbitrary denial of one's rights by a school board member could certainly not survive strict scrutiny and most probably could not survive intermediate scrutiny.

The man may not be an attorney, but he is a thinker.

The problem with trying to get all gun owners to follow your chosen path to gun rights resurrection Gray, is that gun owners are a very independent lot. Most do not take kindly to infringement of what they know in their hearts is their right. Many would rather fight and lose than accept the current situation.

Is all of this good for gun rights? Maybe, maybe not. Quantity can sometimes be a hefty tool for dealing with the beaurrats and petty tyrants in black robes.

Instead of condemning those that try to change things, perhaps you could provide constructive criticizm that enhances their chances of winning, or at least minimizes their chances of harming your quest for the holy grail.
 

bigtoe416

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And for the people whining that he has no self defense options, he can put an unloaded firearm in a "locked" fanny pack today and be just as safe as any UOCer while in a school zone.

Except anybody who unlocks that fanny pack in a school zone would be violating 626.9 unless he had a restraining order against the person attacking him/her. LUCC is practical and can save your life, but you can still violate the law if you need to exercise your right to self-defense.
 

RockerFor2A

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Except anybody who unlocks that fanny pack in a school zone would be violating 626.9 unless he had a restraining order against the person attacking him/her. LUCC is practical and can save your life, but you can still violate the law if you need to exercise your right to self-defense.

Right. Well like the case of that recent school shooting. If I were there when the guy started and took cover, unlocked that fanny pack, and took out the gunman and potentially saved the lives of children, I'd like to see the political blowback if the government filed and pressed charges against me for doing the right thing. Or a jury willing to convict.

Here's the bottom line that my uncle, a decorated and wounded-in-the-line-of-duty police lieutenant liked to tell me: "Better to be tried by twelve than carried by six."
 

Gray Peterson

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Hey Gray,

You are critical of us but you have not cited your own work. Why not? Is your body of work that poor? Or, let me guess, you don't have any notable victories under belt?

Chan et al v. City of Seattle et al, co-plaintiff on state court case against the Seattle's park gun ban rule, which violated state preemption. State Superior Court judge also ruled it a violation of constitutional rights under both the state and federal constitution.

NRA/SAF v. State of Washington Along with one other (Jared on this forum), did the critical historical legal research for striking down the Washington State Alien Firearm License law, as AFL's were not being issued due to state law requiring an FBI background check, and the FBI not allowing the state Department of Licensing access to it's record checks. The Legislature refused to fix the problem so they sued as soon as Heller occurred. Attorney General consented to an injunction, and the Legislature mostly repealed the law (now only effects H1B's and L1's who actually reside in Washington).

Educated numerous law enforcement agencies in the states of Washington and Oregon, and originally started the "training advisory" method of stopping bad open carry encounter before they actually start so that law enforcement officers know what the actual statute is and what their responsibilities are under the 5th amendment. The Washington State Criminal Justice Training Center (the state's police academy) is using training advisories prompted and authored by myself. This is especially important in the state of Washington due to their statutes about "warranting alarm". This method is being used in numerous states, such as Michigan, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, and yes, California.

Educated and persuaded the San Mateo Sheriff's office to drop all unlawful requirements, such as a two-track licensing system which requires application to a local PD chief, when if he thinks good cause is there, passing on to the sheriff (you can now just apply direct to the sheriff, which is what the law says); charging all fees up front (they only charge the fingerprinting fee up front now but none of the licensing fee, but once you get fingerprinted, they can't do it again for initial applicants); liability insurance requirement is gone; gun registration requirement is gone; no more regulation of what types of firearms you can put on a permit (just must be pistol, revolver, or "other firearm); no limit on the number of guns you can place on the license; good cause is now no longer out of reach for the normal citizen in that county.

Educated and persuaded the Riverside County Sheriff's Office to drop the unlawful "you must attempt to apply to a city PD" requirement for city residents, as well as unlawful forms. They only collect $20 up front for consider your good cause instead of the full $100 dollars.

If you are not "conlaw" qualified then give your opinions in a dignified way and lets have a cordial conversation. You don't use profane language, but your methods are irritating, snarky, and weasally. Lets have a disagreement and move on. Don't be nasty about it (your words aren't, but your tactics are).

Yes Gura has delivered in a big way. Two huge cases. He is a God, so-to-speak.

Where are the other cases from you and yours?

2-0 is a great record. Where are the other cases. I have been listening to crap like yours for 30 years. Excepting Gura's one victory for Californians, not much has happened since then here in California (I know, Heller was a stepping stone for McDonald; you don't have to snark that statement). I know CGF was instrumental in "shall issue" in Sacramento. At this rate, I may be able to carry a gun in CA with a CCW in fifty years! (don't snark this statement; this is a blog for God's sake).

Carry Cases:

Richards v. Prieto formerly Sykes v. Mcginness, challenge to good cause and good moral character provisions of the California carry law. Represented by Alan Gura and co-plaintiffed by SAF and CGF.

Palmer v. District of Columbia, challenge to the District of Columbia carry ban and ban on non-resident possession of handguns in the district. Represented by Alan Gura and co-plaintiffed by SAF

Bateman v. Perdue, challenge to the North Carolina emergency powers carry ban act. Represented by Alan Gura and co-plaintiffed by SAF and Grassroots North Carolina's legal foundation arm.

Woollard v. Sheridan, challenge to the Maryland "good and substantial reason to carry a gun" law. Represented by Alan Gura and co-plaintiffed by SAF.

Kachalsky v. Cacace, challenge to New York's "proper cause" requirement. Represented by Alan Gura and co-plaintiffed by SAF.

Muller v. Maenza, broad facial challenge to NJ's carry ban and licensing law. Represented by David Jensen of Duane Morris LLP and co-plaintiffed by SAF and ANJRPC.

Mishiga v. Monken, challenge to the refusal of Illinois to issue a FOID to a resident of Ohio so that she may possess a firearm in the home of her friend (state law doesn't allow this as the law only allows loaded carry in guest rooms for people who have licensing or registration for the firearm, which Ohio doesn't have). Represented by James Manley of the Mountain States Legal Foundation

Bonidy v. United States Postal Service, challenge to postal service regulations banning all carry on all postal property, including parking lots. They seek a strikedown of the regulation so that they can possess in their vehicle. Represented by James Manley of the Mountain States Legal Foundation

GeorgiaCarry.org v. Toomer Challenge to non-residents of Georgia being unable to acquire a Georgia Weapons license. Represented by John Monroe of GeorgiaCarry.org, currently in the 11th Circuit on standing issues.

GeorgiaCarry.org v. State of Georgia Challenge to church carry ban passed by Georgia after repealing their public gathering law. Represented by John Monroe of GeorgiaCarry.org

Wisconsin Carry Inc v. Doyle, Challenge to the 1000 foot school zones law in Wisconsin. Represented by John Monroe of GCO and local counsel.

D'Cruz v. McCraw, challenge to Texas prohibition on non-military persons 18-21 from getting a carry license. Represented by Charles Cooper of Cooper-Kirk and co-plaintiffed by the National Rifle Association.

Peterson v. LaCabe, challenge to a prohibition on non-Colorado residents acquiring carry licenses in Colorado so that one can carry in Denver if they reside in 22 states which doesn't recognize Colorado's licenses. Represented by John Monroe (yes, this is my case).

I have not read where Gura has been critical of Bigtoe, if he has not, please stop dropping his name (use citations please when adding someone elses name to your opinions).

There are numerous youtube videos where he is critical of pro-se cases and other poorly filed cases involving strategic civil rights litigation. Let's just say this: Gura himself could call up Kevin and tell him that he's interfering with the strategic civil litigation plans to get carry for all Americans, including Californians, and Kevin will refuse because he's intransigent and believes that somehow his case will free him from oppression faster than a properly lawyered Richards case will do the same when it gets to the 9th. I tried being persuasive, Gene tried being persuasive, and Alan himself could call him up (if he wasn't so busy with doing the numerous other cases dealing with right to carry among other subjects) and Kevin will continue to be intransigent. He doesn't understand that the Civil Rights Movement 50 years ago first went for desegregating interstate bus companies before going for interracial marriage (suing a school to be able to carry).

He wants his rights "vindicated" to where he can open carry a non-functional firearm, by suing a school. He's not a sympathetic plaintiff, he's not suing the Sheriff of San Francisco (who he should be suing if he sued anyone) for refusing to issue him a carry license so he can carry an actual functional firearm statewide. Judges read newspapers and watch TV, where they show videos of Columbine.....

CGF helped Elsensei, but they did not go for the throat! They should have stripped qualified immunity from the cops invlolved.

The way qualified immunity works is that they have "one bite" of the qualified immunity apple on the same issue. If the San Diego PD office pulls the same or something similar to what happened with Sam (El Sensei) with someone, they will have no qualified immunity. Here on forward, when it comes to bad OC stops, there is no immunity for any officer for doing it. They will stay clear.

You are part of what you feel is an elite cadre and you want to protect it (just my gut feeling by reading your snarky remarks).

No, I just don't want to have the judge in my case (Peterson v. LaCabe citing not only Peruta, but also Hall v. Garcia, and Birdt v. Beck as well in a loss. It has nothing to do with being "elite", it's not wanting to see the work I put into my case get flushed down the toilet by people filing pro-se cases in bad venues like San Francisco and Los Angeles. California Northern District is filled with "Living Constitution" freaks who have no business sitting in a court chamber, and statist law and order conservatives who can't stand the idea of normal people being able to carry.


Gray, stop making this stuff personal. We don't owe you. Please act like a dignified lawyer; you are supposed to be better than us.

I'm not a lawyer, I'm just a guy who doesn't want all of the hard work being put into his own case in Colorado and the rights of 28 million people in California being flushed down the toilet by the foolish actions of people like Kevin and Jon.
 
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