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Thread: Richland men may sue city over gun ban in parks

  1. #1
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    It appears a couple of men from Richland WA approached the city council to remove the park ban on guns.


    RICHLAND, Wash. Two Richland men say the city is breaking state law by banning weapons in parks. The two men, David Campbell and Bob Marguilies, told Tuesday's city council meeting they may file a lawsuit to force the city to change signs posted at parks. The Tri-City Herald reports the weapons ban is included on a sign at Howard Amon Park that also bans consuming alcohol and letting dogs run loose. Campbell says the gun ban violates a state attorney general opinion that cities lack authority to prohibit firearms in public places. In Seattle, Kent lawyer Bob Warden, is threatening a similar lawsuit. He announced he was carrying a gun Saturday when he went to a West Seattle community center where he was turned away. http://www.tri-cityherald.com
    Are we looking at a greater movement to bring cities and counties to tasked for being in violation of our Washington State Constitution and State Preemption?
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    This is why I feel we need to have a large gathering of 100+ folks and families open carrying in a Seattle park. I am still down for this.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Campbell says the gun ban violates a state attorney general opinion that cities lack authority to prohibit firearms in public places.
    I hope he knows he has a better argument than that.

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    Are these guys on the board?

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    "Are we looking at a greater movement to bring cities and counties to tasked for being in violation of our Washington State Constitution and State Preemption?"

    Oh, and HOW. Lets do it so they never attempt such a thing again!

    " I hope he knows he has a better argument than that."

    OHHHH yes, I do. See below. AGO2008#8 was a 'two gloves slap across the face' of the City Attorney. If you can get a copy of the City Council meeting on Richland Public Access TV, PLEASE DO. ITs a HOOT. Set your Beverage down before watching it and clear a space on the floor for rolling in laughter.

    "Are these guys on the board?"

    I am, Bobs not to my knowledge. kudos to whomever posted this.

    We were at the last City Council meeting, I had a tape recorder in my pocket running just in case the video "disappears." Caught them lying through their teeth on two items that Bob raised:

    1.) City Attorney Lampson responded that they had corrected the Ordinance.
    2.) Parks Director Strong responded that the sign had NOT been changed.

    My comments are roughly transcribed here:

    To the city attorney, there NEVER WAS an Ordinance. The second word after "preemption" is "repealed." He about crapped himself. The look was priceless :celebrate

    To Strong. "The sign is now as it was, unchanged? After receiving the letter from the City Attorney, the sign WAS CHANGED TO REMOVE THE RESTRICTION ON PAINTBALL GUNS. After I RIDICULED this on the Tri Cities Tea Party website IT WAS PUT BACK"

    He about crapped himself also, couldnt look me in the eye during comments or afterwards.

    SAF rep almost p-ed himself laughing when I told him that story.

    Although I was Openly Carrying a loaded G26 ported and polished, few noticed.

    That brings the double question: "How will unarmed and unaware persons defend themselves?"

    Anyone seen the spike in gun violence lately? UCLA near riots?

    All you in Tri Citesand nearby please Email me, we need to meet ASAP. rhldhomes@yahoo.com

    Armed in defense of Self and the State by the WA Constitution Art 1 Sect 24,

    Dave Campbell Richland WA USA

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    Second document, couldnt figure out how to attach both.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    This appears to be the link to the video

    Richland City Council Meeting November 17, 2009
    http://www.clinecom.net/~cityview/download.php

    It takes a while to download from what appears to be a slow server.

    Great Job for both of you confronting the issue, kuddos back at you both.

    Dave
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    BigDave wrote:
    This appears to be the link to the video

    Richland City Council Meeting November 17, 2009
    http://www.clinecom.net/~cityview/download.php

    It takes a while to download from what appears to be a slow server.

    Great Job for both of you confronting the issue, kuddos back at you both.

    Dave
    Not super slow, though their filesize estimator is way wrong... file is 188 MB, not KB :\
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    If I may add that in my dealings with Yakima City Council to get the firearms restrictions removed to include in the Emergency Powers Ordinance.

    I found a couple of things that helped.
    1. Approach the City Council, they have the power to ensure research is done by city staff with a time limit.
    2. Take the position of a concerned citizen and rendering assistance, take this to educate Council Members that may well not know.
      1. Avoid confrontational presentations
      2. Provide supporting documentation for each member
      3. Cite which Ordinances that are in violation.
      4. Cite in this case Washington State Constitution, RCW's and AGO Opinion etc.
    3. Provide a connection between the law abiding, legally armed, self defense and the criminal that will not abide by the laws anyways, do not disarm the lawful citizen. etc etc.
    4. Define what outcome you would like.
    5. Ask the Council to direct the City Legal Department to research and please respond by the next Council Meeting.
    Using this approached I developed good relationships concerning the legally armed citizen in our community and if there is future issues concerning firearms I have helped educate them, bring it to their attention and a memory hopefully that was positive when I addressed this to them.

    What was done, is they now have the complaint, supporting information easily accessible, placed in front of those that can make change and a time table to move things along with a predictable end.

    The only thing I would have really left out on the first presentation is the issue of alcohol, as most have a strong feeling about alcohol and weapons are not a good mix, this should have been a different issue at another time.

    This is not to say your approach will not work, hopefully it will.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Big D.

    That works with rational, reasonable, law abiding folk.

    These people are none of the above. They have deliberately, with an Attorney in cahoots, disregarded the Constution and Law. Flagrant, deliberate, deceit, foreknowledge,,,, how many adjectives are there?

    "They" love steps, processes, blame storming, insisting we do things so that if we dont, they can skate away.

    The blame and need for action is solely in their corner.

    There is no contributory part on the Citizen.

    They love to play 'dialog to concensus' games. Aint going there.

    This is a STATEWIDE contempt on part of Cities, Towns and Municipalities for our Authority vested in the Legislature.

    The processes you mentioned are dialoguing to concensus, and do not address the problem, that is, what amounts to TREASON against the State and its Constution.

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    The method I used worked and was passed unanimously with the council and everything was rescinded.

    One must note as well that these ordinances were in place many years ago, for Yakima in 1975 so there is a good chance Richland Ordinance is an old ordinance that has been ignored or laying in wait sort of speak for many years.

    I seen in your video you both hold a great deal of contempt for the Richland Council and Staff.

    Good luck to your endeavors in getting the restrictions removed from the Ordinances and signage as I do sincerely hope you are successful.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    " I seen in your video you both hold a great deal of contempt for the Richland Council and Staff."

    Im sure PERSONAL ATTACKS are not allowed on this board?

    I am not at question, the City is. What fruit is there in your attacking me personally unless you are on the City Council or related to them?

    Awaiting an answer..

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Capn Camo wrote:
    " I seen in your video you both hold a great deal of contempt for the Richland Council and Staff."

    Im sure PERSONAL ATTACKS are not allowed on this board?

    I am not at question, the City is. What fruit is there in your attacking me personally unless you are on the City Council or related to them?

    Awaiting an answer..
    This is an observation not an attack or a personal attack in any ways shape or form.

    I do not know or have ever talked to anyone on the Richland City Council or Staff for that matter.

    It is solely based on the video of a few minutes of how you presented yourself, public speaking is tough, was it do to being nervous then?

    To tell you the truth I was the one that posted this thread to begin with because I support your choice to challenge the ordinance, well then I saw the video but still support your choice to challenge it.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member killchain's Avatar
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    Capn Camo wrote:
    " I seen in your video you both hold a great deal of contempt for the Richland Council and Staff."

    Im sure PERSONAL ATTACKS are not allowed on this board?

    I am not at question, the City is. What fruit is there in your attacking me personally unless you are on the City Council or related to them?

    Awaiting an answer..
    Well, considering the way they blew you two off, I wouldn't hold it against you at all if you had a bit of contempt for them.
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stuart Mill

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    Regular Member killchain's Avatar
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    Oh and this is off-topic but I'm curious:

    I noticed you both had eye protection on. Was this just a coincidence or is there something to it?
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stuart Mill

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    killchain wrote:
    Oh and this is off-topic but I'm curious:

    I noticed you both had eye protection on. Was this just a coincidence or is there something to it?
    "Don't tase me/mace me, bro!"

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    N6ATF wrote:
    killchain wrote:
    Oh and this is off-topic but I'm curious:

    I noticed you both had eye protection on. Was this just a coincidence or is there something to it?
    "Don't tase me/mace me, bro!"
    LOL....
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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