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Thread: Question regarding open carry after a conviction.

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    I was convicted in Midvale 3rd District court of possession of a dangerous weapon while under the influence of alcohol. (Class B Misdemeanor)

    I had a CFP. I did not have the weapon in my possession while drinking. I called an ambulance on myself as I became very ill. Needless to say, the police showed up when I informed the dispatcher that I had a CFP.

    I did bring a firearm with me to the party, but it was locked up tight with the rest of the guest's firearms.

    I plead guilty because I did not have the time or money to fight the charges.

    Does this conviction disqualify me from open carrying?

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    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    No. That sucks that you plead guilty to a crime that you didn't commit though. :?

    Welcome to OCDO! :celebrate
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    Mydnyte wrote:
    I was convicted in Midvale 3rd District court of possession of a dangerous weapon while under the influence of alcohol. (Class B Misdemeanor)

    I had a CFP. I did not have the weapon in my possession while drinking. I called an ambulance on myself as I became very ill. Needless to say, the police showed up when I informed the dispatcher that I had a CFP.

    I did bring a firearm with me to the party, but it was locked up tight with the rest of the guest's firearms.

    I plead guilty because I did not have the time or money to fight the charges.

    Does this conviction disqualify me from open carrying?


    1. I would have advised you to leave your firearm at home if you knew you were going to a party where you were going to be consuming alcohol. A party where everyone shows up with a gun and then consumes alcohol is the kind of party you want to pass on. It just exponentially increases the likelihood of an accident.

    2. If your firearm was locked up and you did not have it in your possession I am surprised that you were charged. Did the police seize your weapon? If so, how did they get it if it was locked up? I am not an attorney, but if you don't have the gun, I don't think that's a crime. That sounds like being charged with a DUI when you checked your keys with a key keeper at a party and informed the police that you had a driver's license. Did the police check your blood alcohol content and verify that it was above the legal limit?

    3. You mentioned you didn't have the money to fight the charges. Does this mean you had too much income to qualify for a public defender but not enough to afford your own?

    4. If this is the whole story, I suspect the charges would have been dropped had you simply plead not guilty. Prosecutors don't want to waste their time if the case is a total loser.

    5. Many members on this forum will advise you to exercise your right to free speech when you have any contact with law enforcement. That is their right. I would always recommend you exercise your right to remain silent first. It may have saved you from any charges. I don't know if you said anything that led to your charges but it kind of reminds of the comedian Ron Wright, "I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."

    Good Luck to you.

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    1.) You're absolutely right. It was very foolish.

    2.) I was too ill to make the call myself, my heart rate was around 120 bpm and I was vomiting consistently. I believe I had a bad reaction to the wine I was drinking that evening. My girlfriend actually called 911 at my request. I was able to walk her through the call to dispatch to get me an ambulance.

    During the call, I told her to tell the dispatcher that I had a CWP. I was told that any involvement with the police required me to inform them that I had a permit. (From the CWP class).

    The dispatcher asked her if I had the gun. She knew that I brought it with me, so she answered yes. The dispatcher then asked her to retrieve the gun, which she did just before the police arrived. The police entered the residence, I showed them that I did not have a gun in my possession, and they escorted me to the ambulance. They retrieved the weapon from my girlfriend, which was unloaded.

    As soon as the EMTs checked me out, I signed a release and left the ambulance. After I was released I was cited.

    My BAC was never tested.

    My weapon was seized by the police, but released to me by the chief of police a week later.

    Unfortunately for me, I had no previous experience with the police, courts, or any of that.. so I was severely uninformed going in to defend myself.

    3.) I do make quite a bit of money as well, so a public defender was not an option.

    Just a stupid stupid mistake. But at least I can still open carry.

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    Mydnyte wrote:
    1.) You're absolutely right. It was very foolish.

    2.) I was too ill to make the call myself, my heart rate was around 120 bpm and I was vomiting consistently. I believe I had a bad reaction to the wine I was drinking that evening. My girlfriend actually called 911 at my request. I was able to walk her through the call to dispatch to get me an ambulance.

    During the call, I told her to tell the dispatcher that I had a CWP. I was told that any involvement with the police required me to inform them that I had a permit. (From the CWP class).

    The dispatcher asked her if I had the gun. She knew that I brought it with me, so she answered yes. The dispatcher then asked her to retrieve the gun, which she did just before the police arrived. The police entered the residence, I showed them that I did not have a gun in my possession, and they escorted me to the ambulance. They retrieved the weapon from my girlfriend, which was unloaded.

    As soon as the EMTs checked me out, I signed a release and left the ambulance. After I was released I was cited.

    My BAC was never tested.

    My weapon was seized by the police, but released to me by the chief of police a week later.

    Unfortunately for me, I had no previous experience with the police, courts, or any of that.. so I was severely uninformed going in to defend myself.

    3.) I do make quite a bit of money as well, so a public defender was not an option.

    Just a stupid stupid mistake. But at least I can still open carry.

    That is really unfortunate. They had no case. If they never checked your BAC they had no idea if you were even over the legal limit. The police didn't even know enough to cite you. If you were slurring your speech, lacking in coordination, or anything else, for all they know it was due to the illness.

    You are able to represent yourself in court. It is in general, not a good idea, but a not guilty plea would have probably ended this case. You usually have time between the time you were cited and your court date. There are people willing to help you on sites such as this. You had the right to a copy of all of the evidence against you. I suspect they had nothing to prove the citation was valid beyond a reasonable doubt, even to themselves. A guilty plea just made it so no one from the state had to put any work into your case. I would have helped you, even to the point of going to court with you.

    Unfortunately, when a CFP is revoked, it hurts everyone who has a CFP.

    Oh well, remember the rest of your rights and continue to exercise them.

    Good luck to you.

  6. #6
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Who on this forum would tell you to exercise your 1st amendment right instead of your 5th?

    I have never heard anyone on this forum suggest talking to the police.

    As a matter of fact, most on this forum would tell you to never talk to the police.

    That's the second time I have read you make a statement in which you were somehow better than the other members here, I surely hope this isn't a pattern.

    And a suggestion, your posts would be much easier to read if you would place your cursor outside of the shaded quote box before typing. I have a hard time telling where the quote ends and your thoughts begin.

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    thx997303 wrote:
    Who on this forum would tell you to exercise your 1st amendment right instead of your 5th?

    I have never heard anyone on this forum suggest talking to the police.

    As a matter of fact, most on this forum would tell you to never talk to the police...

    My thoughts exactly. When I read that "many members on the forum" I couldn't help but ask myself to name one person under the circumstances mentioned above who would advise, anyone, especially under the influence to speak freely. The instructor curriculum says to notify law enforcement section 1.G[img]file:///Users/saragolightly/Library/Caches/TemporaryItems/moz-screenshot.png[/img].
    " Permit holders should know what to do during a police encounter:

    1. If you are armed, advise the officer of your firearm and your concealed firearm
    permit

    2. Advise the officer of the location of the firearm
    3. Comply fully with all instructions given by the officer
    4. Keep your hands visible at all times
    5. Do not reach for your weapon or permit unless instructed to do so".


    For some reason I thought this was not required any more and I've been trying to find it. My concern is it is written into the curriculum. If someone else can find it before I do please post it. Thanks,
    -banki-

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    thx997303 wrote:
    Who on this forum would tell you to exercise your 1st amendment right instead of your 5th?

    I have never heard anyone on this forum suggest talking to the police.

    As a matter of fact, most on this forum would tell you to never talk to the police.

    That's the second time I have read you make a statement in which you were somehow better than the other members here, I surely hope this isn't a pattern.

    And a suggestion, your posts would be much easier to read if you would place your cursor outside of the shaded quote box before typing. I have a hard time telling where the quote ends and your thoughts begin.
    Thanks for the tip on where to place the cursor. Hopefully this one will be easier to read.

    As for exercising the right to free speech before the right to remain silent, I have seen a couple of posts that seem to indicate that the person open carrying should start quoting statutes and case law upon being approached by a police officer. Perhaps I misunderstood the post. Since even people who know the statutes and case law may have a difficult time remembering all of them under a stressful situation, I was simply advocating the use of the right to remain silent and have an attorney. I know that I would personally not be able to quote them all, or even the relevant ones to the situation I am in.

    If you are getting the impression that I think I am better than other member, my apologies. I do not think I am. I am just intending to share information like everyone else.



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    kirkaroberts wrote:
    thx997303 wrote:
    ...That's the second time I have read you make a statement in which you were somehow better than the other members here, I surely hope this isn't a pattern....
    ...If you are getting the impression that I think I am better than other member, my apologies...
    Nobody thinks that.
    Just keep asking Q's and you'll keep on getting A's.

    We just need some time to get to know you and then we will understand your "tone" a bit more. Trust me, I am not agreed with A LOT of the time on these forums - - but i would never leave. SO much information, SO much resource.

    Carry on.

    ps- and if YOU want a bit more insight to the brain of THX997303, check out this thread: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...;highlight=cow More commonly known as "THX vs. The Cows"

    So next time he gives you a hard time, tell him to "Not have a COW", THX, you giving the neewbies a hard time eh?

  10. #10
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Not meant to step on your toes, merely saying what I have perceived.

    As I have said, I much prefer that it is merely a misreading of intent on my part. I don't particularly enjoy disliking people, particularly those I have never met.

    The post is much easier to read, thank you.

    And it appears you have a good grasp on the issues surrounding open carry, so I hope I don't drive you off.

  11. #11
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    ichigo wrote:
    For some reason I thought this was not required any more and I've been trying to find it. My concern is it is written into the curriculum. If someone else can find it before I do please post it. Thanks
    Therein lies the problem. The duty to notify has been removed from the rules, but not the instructor curriculum.

    It's kinda hard to find something to post that does not exist anymore. :P
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    SGT Jensen wrote:
    ichigo wrote:
    For some reason I thought this was not required any more and I've been trying to find it. My concern is it is written into the curriculum. If someone else can find it before I do please post it. Thanks
    Therein lies the problem. The duty to notify has been removed from the rules, but not the instructor curriculum.

    It's kinda hard to find something to post that does not exist anymore. :P
    And even if the rule was still in force....

    The rule required notification to POLICE IF YOU WERE BEING STOPPED OR INVESTIGATED FOR A CRIME IF YOU WERE CARRYING CONCEALED. Since the OP was not being investigated but was calling for a MEDICAL SITUATION he was under NO duty to inform the dispatcher.

    Also, since there was no determination of his BAC it would have been very easy to fight and win the charge EVEN IF HE HAD ACTUALLY BEEN IN POSESSESSION OF THE WEAPON WHEN THE AMBULANCE/FIRST RESPONDER/POLICE arrived!

    Terrible shame he took a guilty plea instead of forcing them to prove their case!


    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    Mydnyte wrote:
    During the call, I told her to tell the dispatcher that I had a CWP. I was told that any involvement with the police required me to inform them that I had a permit. (From the CWP class).

    Just a stupid stupid mistake.
    this is what you may be referring too: "If I get stopped by a police officer, do I, as a permit holder, have to tell the officer that I have a gun in my possession?


    Although there is no legal requirement to identify yourself to a law enforcement officer, it is recommended to do so.

    If an officer finds or sees a gun on your person during their contact with you, and you have not identified yourself as a permit holder in legal possession of a firearm, the officer must assume you are carrying the gun illegally and will take defensive action. For the safety of all involved, it is better to immediately identify yourself to the officer as a permit holder in possession of a handgun. This action gives the officer some assurance they are most likely dealing with a law abiding citizen." http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/FAQ.html#8(underlines added by me)

    read this thread: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum52/28426.html

    IMO: Alcohol tends to impair judgement= say & do stupid things...

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