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Militia Movement Resurfaces across the U.S.

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I didn't notice the repeal of the Declaration of Independence and the cession of our unalienable Rights that include the Right to Keep and Bear Arms and the Right to dissolve Political Bands.

In Congress, July 4, 1776.
A Declaration By the Representatives of the United states of America, In general Congress assembled.

When in the course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent Respect to the Opinions of Mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the Separation.

We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness—-That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute a new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security. Such has been the patient Sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the Necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The History of the Present King of Great-Britain is a History of repeated Injuries and Usurpations, all having in direct Object the Establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid World.
 

Interceptor_Knight

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We won our independence from the British Crown over 233 years ago...;)

If you wish to declare indepedence from the Constitutionally elected current United States of America government, then you will need to draft a new document.... In order to establish a new Country, you would need to take land away from the US government. Your odds of success are far less than those who failed in the 1800s. This is because such an action is premature. You simply do not have the support of the people.
 

GLOCK21GB

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Interceptor_Knight wrote:
We won our independence from the British Crown over 233 years ago...;)

If you wish to declare indepedence from the Constitutionally elected current United States of America government, then you will need to draft a new document.... In order to establish a new Country, you would need to take land away from the US government. Your odds of success are far less than those who failed in the 1800s. This is because such an action is premature. You simply do not have the support of the people.
Actually a new document would not need to be drafted, the original would be just fine( like the copy I have here ) with a few tweeks like this document shall not be amended & or changed ever, you see if the original documnet would have been kept as is, the problems we face now would have never taken place, the founding fathers screwed up there, they let abunch of morons alter a perfect document......of course by the time the sheeple in the country wake up to support any new cause, it will all be over, too many people thinking that our current system is fixable which it is most certainly not......and we are approaching a time when it's crap or get off the pot time. :uhoh:

once they reinstate the new non expiring Assault weapons ban & they will just give them enough time, they did it once, they will do it again, the next one won't expire. their will only be a few nails left to pound into the American's peoples coffin. I find it really sad that Only a few of us can see whats happening in this country, the rest are living in a self imposed state of dream land, because reality is just too much of a nightmare to them & can't make themselves face it. like the totalitarian - police state we live in today & you people continue to think we live in a free country.:lol:

2nd ammend - a joke ....the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed
Can felons own a gun ? NO ,
under the age of 18 buy a gun legally , NO
Buy a gun at the store with out paperwork ? NO
Carry a gun where ever you maybe be ? NO
Freedom to own Full Auto machine guns ? NO, you must purchase Tax stamps, pass more background checks & get permission from the local Gobernment.
and on & on & on....

Do we have the freedom to peacefully assemble /protest ? NO ,
Unless you to get a permit , Insurance & have people sign a waiver
look at ALL those TEA Parties, MOST of them required PERMITS, INSURANCE to take place. The Green Bay Tea party in April was done on private property with out the Permission of the Green Bay PD.

Do we have the freedom of speech ? NOT ANYMORE
Anything you say can get you put in jail --yup looks like freedom to me.:shock:

What about the freedom from illegal search & seizure , NOT NO MORE , We had probable cause, his taillight was broken or ( Did you hear someone scream ? quick kick in the door ):?

and on & on & on........so, you still think your free ? your only free AFTER you get the permit...seems to me, the Right to keep and bear arms, says nothing about age limits & permits.:?

I know I am beating a dead horse here, Now I am just waiting for someone to post the same old excuses for the Government, for the various points i listed here. Ok, Guys.. tell me I am wrong & that we really are free. I need a good laugh.:lol:

This is one issue where Interceptor & myself will always agree to disagree.:dude:

Next thing someone will try to sell me a bridge somewhere....
 

Interceptor_Knight

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Glock34 wrote:
This is one issue where Interceptor & myself will always agree to disagree.:dude:

Agreed....:cool:

A significant difference is that I look at things in a practical sense and not a purely idealistic sense. Do not interpret this as lacking conviction, but that I choose my battles carefully. Better to wait and fight another day than to be hasty and sure to loose. By working smart and not hard, we can win without ever firing a shot again. By waking up America and getting informed voters to the polls, we can take back what we have lost....





In the practical art of war, the best thing of all is to take the enemy's country whole and intact; to shatter and destroy it is not so good.

To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.

He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight.

The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.
 

J.Gleason

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Interceptor_Knight wrote:
J.Gleason wrote:
Interceptor_Knight wrote:
I do not believe that it takes the legislature to declare a state of emergency, just the governor.
4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state, or to enter with force into a state, without the express consent and invitation of that state’s legislature and governor.


It is the militia of a state and of the several states that the Constitution contemplates being used in any context, during any emergency within a state, not the standing army.
The imposition of martial law by the national government over a state and its people, treating them as an occupied enemy nation, is an act of war. Such an attempted suspension of the Constitution and Bill of Rights voids the compact with the states and with the people.

This is referring to the national government overtaking the state government. What your saying is true. It would only take the state legislature OR the Governor to declare a state of emergency (Katrina for example).

However, when the federal Government steps in and takes over and imposes martial law as it did during Katrina, then comes the disarming of Americans as well as the placing of Americans into detention camps

In accordance to the Posse Comitatus act, the Governor may only bring in the National Guard. It takes Congress to send in the other forces. That is exactly right. The Fed Government would be holding Martial Law over a state. In accordance with the Insurrection Act (1807), the standing military forces may be brought in by the President to impose order. During the LA riots, the military was legally used. (Really? According to the U.S. Constitution martial law is never legal in America.) First the National Guard was deployed but Marine Corps units backed them up later. I was geared up wating for the transport truck to take me and my Company to LA feom Camp Pendleton. We did not deploy as another did. I know of Marines having to shoot 1 person at a road block. I had no problem acting in such a manor when theanimals were burning down the city. You said the shot him at a road block not in the process of burning down the city. Law Enforcement was not capable of controlling the riots as they hesitated to act swiftly and decisively.
I guess your no oath keeper. My question has been answered.

It is obvious that you do not understand what you are reading. And we all wonder why the things happened in during Katrina? This is why.
 

J.Gleason

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Interceptor_Knight wrote:
Glock34 wrote:
This is one issue where Interceptor & myself will always agree to disagree.:dude:

Agreed....:cool:

A significant difference is that I look at things in a practical sense and not a purely idealistic sense. Do not interpret this as lacking conviction, but that I choose my battles carefully. Better to wait and fight another day than to be hasty and sure to loose. By working smart and not hard, we can win without ever firing a shot again. By waking up America and getting informed voters to the polls, we can take back what we have lost....





In the practical art of war, the best thing of all is to take the enemy's country whole and intact; to shatter and destroy it is not so good.

To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.

He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight.

The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.
Yeah so what, you read the art of war. Your book smart, yippee! You place all of your faith in a book that has not been proven. But hey, don't let me dissuade you. Sit back and do nothing like the book says.

The fact is, the militia movement is growing across this country like a wild fire. Americans are sick and tired of the Government taking everything from them.
Like it or not it is a fact.

Tell me this, why is it that you think everyone is always wrong about everything, except for you?
 

Interceptor_Knight

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J.Gleason wrote:
Yeah so what, you read the art of war. Your book smart, yippee! You place all of your faith in a book that has not been proven. But hey, don't let me dissuade you. Sit back and do nothing like the book says.

The fact is, the militia movement is growing across this country like a wild fire. Americans are sick and tired of the Government taking everything from them.
Like it or not it is a fact.

Tell me this, why is it that you think everyone is always wrong about everything, except for you?

A book that has not been proven??:lol:

Try Military strategywhich has not been proven wrong in over 2600 Years....;) I took military science courses in college. As an NCO in the US Marine Corps, I attended advanced leadership training and I was an instructor to other Marines.

Everyone else is not wrong as there are plenty of individuals including some on this board who agree with my outlook and philosophy. The fact that you and some others may not does not concern me. What is disconcerting is your eagerness to make personal attacks when someone does not agree with you. To generalize and try to demonize someone who does not share in your personal view.
 

Interceptor_Knight

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J.Gleason wrote:
I guess your no oath keeper. My question has been answered.

It is obvious that you do not understand what you are reading. And we all wonder why the things happened in during Katrina? This is why.

It appears that you may not know what you are reading...


According to Article 1 Section 9 of the US Constitution: The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.




Looks pretty clear that in certain cases of rebellion that martial law is Constitutionally supported....

What happened during Katrina was the responsibility of the Mayor of New Orleans and on the Governor of LA. They failed their State and City residents miserably as did the local "Militia" groups who failed to act and assist. If the "Militias" arenot there to assist the other residents then they are only in existence for self serving purposes and are definitely not in the spirit of the original colonial and Constitutional Militias
 

J.Gleason

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Not attacking anyone, simply telling the truth. You are a mandated training advocate and a propagandist. You and some others here believe that feeding off the fear of the people who have longed for this type of legislation for years will lead you to money in the bank.

It is sad to see anyone try to profit off of someones rights.

If is were not true you wouldn't keep arguing about it.

Facts are, there are no significant differences between OCW and CCW that would warrant any mandated training. I could care less what the "Art of War" says I have read the book. It concerns warfare as in military strategy. Not legislation. Quit trying to impress someone by drifting off of the subject.

As an NCO in the Rangers, I was also an instructor as well as a team leader I served my country to the best of my ability.

I am not going to sit here and brag about what I have done or what missions I have been through. For one thing it would take up to long of a post, for another, it does not pertain to the issue at hand here.
 

J.Gleason

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Interceptor_Knight wrote:
J.Gleason wrote:
I guess your no oath keeper. My question has been answered.

It is obvious that you do not understand what you are reading. And we all wonder why the things happened in during Katrina? This is why.

It appears that you may not know what you are reading...


According to Article 1 Section 9 of the US Constitution: The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.




Looks pretty clear that in certain cases of rebellion that martial law is Constitutionally supported....

What happened during Katrina was the responsibility of the Mayor of New Orleans and on the Governor of LA. They failed their State and City residents miserably as did the local "Militia" groups who failed to act and assist. If the "Militias" arenot there to assist the other residents then they are only in existence for self serving purposes and are definitely not in the spirit of the original colonial and Constitutional Militias
Your simply lost in LaLa Land. There is no point in discussing this any further with you as you have your mind set on compromise and mandated training for both OCW and CCW.

End of discussion.

For the rest of us please do not feed the trolls.
 

Interceptor_Knight

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J.Gleason wrote:
Not attacking anyone, simply telling the truth. You are a mandated training advocate and a propagandist. You and some others here believe that feeding off the fear of the people who have longed for this type of legislation for years will lead you to money in the bank.

It is sad to see anyone try to profit off of someones rights.

If is were not true you wouldn't keep arguing about it.

Facts are, there are no significant differences between OCW and CCW that would warrant any mandated training. I could care less what the "Art of War" says I have read the book. It concerns warfare as in military strategy. Not legislation. Quit trying to impress someone by drifting off of the subject.

As an NCO in the Rangers, I was also an instructor as well as a team leader I served my country to the best of my ability.

I am not going to sit here and brag about what I have done or what missions I have been through. For one thing it would take up to long of a post, for another, it does not pertain to the issue at hand here.

Stop being confrontational and divisive. That is all on you. You are making unfounded accusations. I continue to state the facts of my supporting a system with no mandatory permit or training. It doesn't get any more simple than that.

I also support an optional permit system with enough training that it will be recognized by other States for reciprocity purposes. You should care about this also if you wish to legally carry a weapon for self defense in other States including while you travel in a vehicle and including concealed.Some States require Carry to be Concealed.
 

Interceptor_Knight

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J.Gleason wrote:
Your simply lost in LaLa Land. There is no point in discussing this any further with you as you have your mind set on compromise and mandated training for both OCW and CCW.

Find the quote where I support mandatory training for OC and CC? Or just continue to throw out baseless accusations.... Either way, it is clear that you are more concerned in creating division than everyone working together even though some of our opinions may differ. Adults can agree to disagree. Adults do not demonize and make personal attacks when someone disagrees with them.

Things are not so cut and dry as you are supposing they are. This pertains to the use of the military in a domestic capacity and to enacting legislation. Although it is easier to deal with absolutes, very few things in the worldare absolutes.
 

J.Gleason

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Like I said in the other thread, I am not going to continue with the discussion on training with you.

I have already given my position on training in the other thread.

It is over, we know where you stand.

Let's get back on topic.
 

AaronS

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Interceptor_Knight wrote:
J.Gleason wrote:
Yeah so what, you read the art of war. Your book smart, yippee! You place all of your faith in a book that has not been proven. But hey, don't let me dissuade you. Sit back and do nothing like the book says.

The fact is, the militia movement is growing across this country like a wild fire. Americans are sick and tired of the Government taking everything from them.
Like it or not it is a fact.

Tell me this, why is it that you think everyone is always wrong about everything, except for you?

A book that has not been proven??:lol:

Try Military strategywhich has not been proven wrong in over 2600 Years....;) I took military science courses in college. As an NCO in the US Marine Corps, I attended advanced leadership training and I was an instructor to other Marines.

Everyone else is not wrong as there are plenty of individuals including some on this board who agree with my outlook and philosophy. The fact that you and some others may not does not concern me. What is disconcerting is your eagerness to make personal attacks when someone does not agree with you. To generalize and try to demonize someone who does not share in your personal view.

It is a great book. I have never been able to read it all, as of yet. Think I will give it a go again. Written so long ago, and all of it looks to hold true today. I can only guess that it is brought up a lot in NCO training.

I have 4 in my family. Thanks for the service.
 

GLOCK21GB

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I just finished, One second after , Very good book , it's about life after a EMP strike. ! and recently finished, when the mob ran Vegas, another good read.
 

GLOCK21GB

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Interceptor_Knight wrote:
Glock34 wrote:
This is one issue where Interceptor & myself will always agree to disagree.:dude:

Agreed....:cool:

A significant difference is that I look at things in a practical sense and not a purely idealistic sense. Do not interpret this as lacking conviction, but that I choose my battles carefully. Better to wait and fight another day than to be hasty and sure to loose. By working smart and not hard, we can win without ever firing a shot again. By waking up America and getting informed voters to the polls, we can take back what we have lost....





In the practical art of war, the best thing of all is to take the enemy's country whole and intact; to shatter and destroy it is not so good.

To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.

He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight.

The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.
Sounds like it's going to be a hard fought uphill battle, with the liberal enemy at the top , raining Machine gun fire & hand grenades down on us. I am with ya, like always...I just wish MORE Americans would wake the frack up, so we could end this fight FAST.
 

Sgt_Habz

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Hmm. I read these forums daily but post infrequently. This is one of the times that I couldn't keep my trap shut.

J.Gleason, I have seen you successfully chase off members from this site more efficiently than any liberal "troll" could ever hope to be. You may think you are scaring away the weak-minded or the half-hearted, but on the whole you are damaging our cause. And from a readers perspective (anyone notactively engaged in these conversations) you make is blatantly obvious how divided we are as an organization. I have seen so much infighting in these forums, its disgusting; and even though you're not the one to start it all, you certainly seem to be present for most of it. Please keep up your patriotism, it is extremely commendable, but for the sake of our cause, aim your aggression at your enemies, not your allies.

Second, OORAH Interceptor_Knight. I also served in the Marines, 5 years. I'd say your a bit more, ahh, "senior" than I am though ;) Anyways, I commend you for your patientdemeanor for all this, and I agree to a point with your stance, but from what I can see, you still keep faith in a system that has failed us time and time again. I do side with J.Gleason in his belief that the time for voting the tyrants out is passed. A revolution is sticky business, and I want no part in bloodshed because we can't agree on how to run this country, but certainly something a bit more efficient and expedient than waiting every 4 years to vote out a tyrant is needed (especially when there are hundreds). Do you not agree?
 

Interceptor_Knight

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Sgt_Habz wrote:
Second, OORAH Interceptor_Knight. I also served in the Marines, 5 years. I'd say your a bit more, ahh, "senior" than I am though ;) Anyways, I commend you for your patientdemeanor for all this, and I agree to a point with your stance, but from what I can see, you still keep faith in a system that has failed us time and time again. I do side with J.Gleason in his belief that the time for voting the tyrants out is passed. A revolution is sticky business, and I want no part in bloodshed because we can't agree on how to run this country, but certainly something a bit more efficient and expedient than waiting every 4 years to vote out a tyrant is needed (especially when there are hundreds). Do you not agree?

Semper Fi!

This is no simple problem and there is no simple answer.

The devil is in the details.... You must first have a more than reasonable chance of succeeding before you take any action. This is not to say that you should do nothing for fear of not being able to do enough. No individual raindrop believes it is responsible for the flood. It is only through our combined resources and actions that we may become victorious.

Unless there is a better system which is attainable, we are better off keeping the one we have. Waking up the sleeping masses deserves our effort no matter what the course of action may be. When the will of the people places someone in power, what does that say about the people? I can tell you that it certainly says that they will not support an insurrection. The war for public opinion and support is the war we are fighting at the present time. We need to adapt and use the propaganda techniques of the left against themselves. As a start, we as a group need to stop this unproductive bickering like children and unite.
 

GLOCK21GB

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I was not bickering ( It's tough sometimes to sense a person's tone, when in typed form ) but I was just talking & stating my opinion , I was using smiley faces.:D
 

J.Gleason

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Interceptor_Knight wrote:
As a start, we as a group need to stop this unproductive bickering like children and unite
I agree, however I have to be honest here. Nothing I have said here in this forum has not been truth. I find it very hard to unite with someone I believe maybe joining this cause for ulterior motives.

Now I am not trying to start a whole new knock down drag out argument. Like I said I am just being honest.

In light of the last two weeks of discussion on here it is my belief that we should repeal the laws that we have on the books now. Even if this means challenging them in court. After we are successful with this we then challenge the prohibition of CCW.

We need to get to work. That means showing up at every candidates events and questioning them on where they stand on these issues. Lets let them know that we mean business.
 
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