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Thread: open cary while driving?

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    If I wanted to open carry at acertain legal location and im currently open carrying, can I just jump in my vehicle and go? or do I need to secure both gun and ammo in trunk?

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    I'm assuming you're talking about unloaded carry here. If you aren't going to be driving through any school zones, then yeah you can drive with your sidearm in your holster. 12025(f) says a firearm in a holster isn't considered concealed, no mention of that not applying when driving or riding in a car. If you are going to be traveling through school zones then you must lock your handgun in a fully enclosed locked container.

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    As noted above, no PC reference to it being illegal. Just make sure you don't drive into any Gun Free School Zones, i.e. 1,000 feet from K-12 School property.

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    It's just like being on foot - only harder as school zones come up much faster - and if you are carrying loaded in unincorporated areas (where shooting is not prohibited by the County), those pesky incorporated areas come up pretty fast too

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    Thanks you guys. I love it when the laws work on my side.

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    But then, what are the odds of getting pulled over and nailed for it? Unless an LEO followed you when you got in your car with it on your hip and assumed that you did not lock it it up. And Unless you are speeding or driving like an ass inside the school zone, odds in your favor not to get pulled over specificly for UOC in school zone.

    Just my opinion.

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    I am new at this, this is my first post, so I don't know if I am doing it right. What do you do if you OC while driving and you get pulled over? Do you have to disclose to the police you have a gun on you? Or do you let them find out?
    FREEDOM.

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    You are not required to disclose, and if they ask if you have any firearms, you are not required to answer them. That does not mean you should lie (which may be against the law) but you could remain silent, or answer with "I have nothing illegal in the vehicle and I do not consent to any searches"... All that being said, if you are open carrying, there is a good chance they will find out if they look at your hip area, so it's ultimately up to you how you wish to proceed in such an encounter. I travel with the gun in a locked case to avoid school zone entanglements, and that is what I recommend others do for practical reasons. It's your choice.
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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    Ranchero wrote:
    I am new at this, this is my first post, so I don't know if I am doing it right. What do you do if you OC while driving and you get pulled over? Do you have to disclose to the police you have a gun on you? Or do you let them find out?
    Hi and welcome to the OC site.

    Many things come into play when OC'ing. Loaded or unloaded. School zones, gov buildingts. I suggest you wait to OC till you learn all the in's and out's.

    You can carry an unloaded weapon on your belt with some exceptions. Ammo can be carried on you belt, seperate from your gun. You can open carry unloaded in your car. You can't carry ingov buildings, orwithin 1000 ft of a school. If you need to pass a school, lock you weapon in your trunk or in a locked container. I use a book safe with a combo lock. Once it's locked up, you can safely drive by a school. I can't leave my house carrying, because I live within 1000 ft of a school.

    If you get pulled over for a traffic violation, and the police see your gun, they are authorized to check and see if it's loaded. If you rufuse to allow them to check it, you are subject to arrest. Always remember, you do not have to answer any questions the police ask you. Tell them you decline to answer any questions without legal advice. You can also tell them you do not consent to an unconstitutional search, but you wont resist.

    Open carrying loaded if pretty much illegal everywhereexcept way out in the boonies. (unincorperated area)

    There are prolly some things I left out and some I may have said wrong. Bear with us and all the correct info will come out. There are lots of ppl here that are real sharp on this stuff. There is some good information on www.californiaopencarry.org.


    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

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    Regular Member JJ's Avatar
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    I don't leave home without my firearm. When driving, to avoid any chance of being caught in a school zone, I place my gun in a gun vault and leave it open on the passenger seat next to me. If I need to access my gun I simply reach over and remove it from the vault. I keep my magazines in the cup holder located in my center console.
    If I ever happen to get pulled over by a LEO (or if I approach a school zone), I'll just reach over and close the door to the gun vault.

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    JJ wrote:
    I don't leave home without my firearm. When driving, to avoid any chance of being caught in a school zone, I place my gun in a gun vault and leave it open on the passenger seat next to me. If I need to access my gun I simply reach over and remove it from the vault. I keep my magazines in the cup holder located in my center console.
    If I ever happen to get pulled over by a LEO, I'll just reach over and close the door to the gun vault.
    Doesn't it need to be locked and inaccessable while driving in such a zone? I'm pretty sure you can't have guns in the cabin, while in such a zone, I could be completelyyyy wrong though.

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    ACMeesot wrote:
    JJ wrote:
    I don't leave home without my firearm. When driving, to avoid any chance of being caught in a school zone, I place my gun in a gun vault and leave it open on the passenger seat next to me. If I need to access my gun I simply reach over and remove it from the vault. I keep my magazines in the cup holder located in my center console.
    If I ever happen to get pulled over by a LEO, I'll just reach over and close the door to the gun vault.
    Doesn't it need to be locked and inaccessable while driving in such a zone? I'm pretty sure you can't have guns in the cabin, while in such a zone, I could be completelyyyy wrong though.
    You are indeed completely wrong. I would recomend you research Locked Unloaded Concealed Carry (LUCC) also known as 'Poor Man's CCW'

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    JJ wrote:
    I don't leave home without my firearm. When driving, to avoid any chance of being caught in a school zone, I place my gun in a gun vault and leave it open on the passenger seat next to me. If I need to access my gun I simply reach over and remove it from the vault. I keep my magazines in the cup holder located in my center console.
    If I ever happen to get pulled over by a LEO, I'll just reach over and close the door to the gun vault.
    While you may not get caught, you are in fact committing a FELONY every time you knowingly drive through a school zone with the gun in the open vault. Not only that, you are admitting to committing a felony on a RKBA board that is heavily frequented/monitored by Law Enforcement. Niether action is the smartest thing to do.



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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    wewd wrote:
    That does not mean you should lie (which may be against the law)...
    It may be against the law if you're pulled over by a federal agent (FBI or something similar). It isn't against the law if it is a state/county/municipal officer. Just don't lie about who you are (instead don't tell them anything).

    I'll preemptively ask you for any case law related to PC 148 where a person was convicted of lying to a police officer.

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    Gundude wrote:


    If you get pulled over for a traffic violation, and the police see your gun, they are authorized to check and see if it's loaded.
    At that time, do you unholster and give the weapon to the LEO, or do you have to exit the car and let the LEOtake the weapon from the holster to check it?

    If you're not in a car, but outside walking, sitting (outside in a Starbucks, for example) and they, or he/she asks to check the weapon to see if it's loaded, do you pull it out, or do you let them do it?

    To me it would seem that the LEO would rather pull it out if for anything but officer safety. Especially if it has a mag in the well, assuming it's an autoloader.

    And if you do hand it over, do you eject the empty mag, or open the cylinder if it's a wheel gun? Or do you leave that up to the LEO?

    Because I have a slight speech disability, is there a pamphlet/flyer/printout of the legal to UOC that I can show to the LEO instead of trying to explain it with a speech disability that might confuse the LEO? I am assuming that the LEO is not familiar with the section on OC.

    Thank you



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    when you carry unloaded, you have loaded clips on your belt? You drive with your unloaded gun on your belt, and loaded clips on your belt? Isnt there a law about the ammo having to be stored in a different place than the gun when transporting in a car? Does the gun have an empty clip in it, or no clip?

    So if I simply lay the unloaded gun on the passenger car seat, along with clips, is this legal??? Just because it is unconcealed, in plain view? If I put the clips in my pocket, then I have a problem???

    When you are walking around san diego county with an unloaded gun on your belt, and loaded clips on your belt, do you go into stores and resturants? You never have any problems with this?

    I dont have a trunk in my utility van. What is better, open carry, or putting it in a locked box (but not in the trunk)?

    Where do open carry guys hang out? I would like to see this with my own eyes.

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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    jellolion wrote:
    when you carry unloaded, you have loaded clips on your belt? You drive with your unloaded gun on your belt, and loaded clips on your belt? Isnt there a law about the ammo having to be stored in a different place than the gun when transporting in a car? Does the gun have an empty clip in it, or no clip?

    So if I simply lay the unloaded gun on the passenger car seat, along with clips, is this legal??? Just because it is unconcealed, in plain view? If I put the clips in my pocket, then I have a problem???

    When you are walking around san diego county with an unloaded gun on your belt, and loaded clips on your belt, do you go into stores and resturants? You never have any problems with this?

    I dont have a trunk in my utility van. What is better, open carry, or putting it in a locked box (but not in the trunk)?

    Where do open carry guys hang out? I would like to see this with my own eyes.
    You can carry UOC (unloaded open carry), weapon on your belt, ammo on your belt, walking ordriving. Do not drive or walkUOC'in within 1000 ft of a K-12 school. You can have an empty clip in the magazine well. Loaded clips are considered part of the gun, so they must be OC'd. Speedy loaders for revolvers aren't part of the gun, so they can be carried in your pocket. To carry through a School zone, walking or driving, your gun should be locked in a closed container. The locked container can be stored anywhere.

    When entering private business', it's up to the owner to allow UOC'ing. Some may ask you to leave. If you don't leave, they can call the police and trespass you. So don't push it, just leave if they ask.

    Your glove compartment or console is not considered a locked container.

    We have UOC meets from time to time. Keep your eye out for them. They are well posted

    But Ianal (I am not a lawyer) so this is not legal advice.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

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    i don't want to seem like a no it all but on this subject i would like to put in my 2 cent being from a family full of LEO's if i remember right California passed a law a few years back about fire arms in motor vehicles stating that a fire are MUST BE SECURED IN A MOTOR VEHICLE IN A LOCKABLE CONTAINER SEPARATE FROM THE AMMO AND CLIPS IN THE TRUNK IF NO TRUNK THE FIRE ARM MUST BE IN A LOCATION THAT IS OUT OF REACH OF THE DRIVER AND ALL PASSENGERS IN THE VEHICLE!!!!!!!!!

    this would not change due to the fact that you are open carrying or not it is a felony and you will go to jail i love to open carry and with the help of the LEO' in my family i have been fortunate to have the law explained to me as most law enforcement sees it. it has kept me out of a lot of trouble in closing my best advice to you is put it in the lock box in the trunk before you drive any ware just to CYA also i have included some links to sites with the actual penal code that would be implied in this situation


    http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/travel.php
    http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12025.html

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    the fatman wrote:
    i don't want to seem like a no it all but on this subject i would like to put in my 2 cent being from a family full of LEO's if i remember right California passed a law a few years back about fire arms in motor vehicles stating that a fire are MUST BE SECURED IN A MOTOR VEHICLE IN A LOCKABLE CONTAINER SEPARATE FROM THE AMMO AND CLIPS IN THE TRUNK IF NO TRUNK THE FIRE ARM MUST BE IN A LOCATION THAT IS OUT OF REACH OF THE DRIVER AND ALL PASSENGERS IN THE VEHICLE!!!!!!!!!

    this would not change due to the fact that you are open carrying or not it is a felony and you will go to jail i love to open carry and with the help of the LEO' in my family i have been fortunate to have the law explained to me as most law enforcement sees it. it has kept me out of a lot of trouble in closing my best advice to you is put it in the lock box in the trunk before you drive any ware just to CYA also i have included some links to sites with the actual penal code that would be implied in this situation


    http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/travel.php
    http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12025.html
    Please cite tot he specific text you think requires guns to be secured to locked conainers in vehicles - you will find that this is merely a safe harbor to unlawful concealed carry.

    Open carry in vehicles is fine, though sunject to the complicated loaded/unloaded regimes depending upon where you are - see People v. knight.

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    the fatman wrote:
    i don't want to seem like a no it all but on this subject i would like to put in my 2 cent being from a family full of LEO's if i remember right California passed a law a few years back about fire arms in motor vehicles stating that a fire are MUST BE SECURED IN A MOTOR VEHICLE IN A LOCKABLE CONTAINER SEPARATE FROM THE AMMO AND CLIPS IN THE TRUNK IF NO TRUNK THE FIRE ARM MUST BE IN A LOCATION THAT IS OUT OF REACH OF THE DRIVER AND ALL PASSENGERS IN THE VEHICLE!!!!!!!!!

    this would not change due to the fact that you are open carrying or not it is a felony and you will go to jail i love to open carry and with the help of the LEO' in my family i have been fortunate to have the law explained to me as most law enforcement sees it. it has kept me out of a lot of trouble in closing my best advice to you is put it in the lock box in the trunk before you drive any ware just to CYA also i have included some links to sites with the actual penal code that would be implied in this situation


    http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/travel.php
    http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12025.html
    FUD.

    Here. Let me help you.

    12025 (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when
    he or she does any of the following:
    (1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her
    control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
    of being concealed upon the person.
    (f) Firearms carried openly in belt holsters are not concealed
    within the meaning of this section.
    This means that a firearm carried openly in a belt holster are not concealed, even inside a car.

    12026.1 (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
    citizen
    of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
    is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state
    or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a
    firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other
    firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that
    the following applies to the firearm:
    (1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
    vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
    the utility or glove compartment.
    (2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
    motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm,
    the firearm is contained within a locked container.
    (b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the
    otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver,
    or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in
    accordance with this chapter.
    (c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
    container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock,
    combination lock, or similar locking device.
    12026.1 creates an exemption for 12025- so if you carry it like this (and not openly in a belt holster) it will not be a violation of 12025. Subsection (b) even states this section does not prohibit or limit otherwise lawful carry. (ie: UOC in a car is NOT prohibited.

    You will note, the only violation in question is that of 12025... which is not a felony first time around. There is no statutory requirement to carry your unloaded weapon in a secure locked container and no punitive section to that section of code. The misconception that a firearm has to be locked up inside a car is due to a misreading of the exemption found in the code.

    Criminalized possesion of firearm and ammunitionin a vehicle only applies in conjunction with street gang crimes. (12021.5)



    Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to educate you.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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    If you are confronted by the police while open carrying, the last thing you should do is put your hand on your pistol. Let the LEO remove it for an e check. Otherwise you might wind up taking a dirt nap.

    If you don't have a friendly witness with you, it could be classified as another "suicide by cop".

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    yelohamr wrote:
    If you are confronted by the police while open carrying, the last thing you should do is put your hand on your pistol. Let the LEO remove it for an e check. Otherwise you might wind up taking a dirt nap.

    If you don't have a friendly witness with you, it could be classified as another "suicide by cop".
    Absolutely correct.

    Condition 3 is, as usual, spot on.

    The fatman should come to grips with the reality that a police officer is not a criminal lawyer or a judge. As we can see in the December 13th post here http://adnanshahab.com/?cat=118 that when you sample police for legal opinions, you get a wide variety of answers about what is legal and what is illegal. Police generally know the penal code fairly well, but they don't get to sit down and read the penal code and read case law before they make a decision.

    IMO that's why police swear to uphold the constitution first, because that's something they can understand in its entirety. As long as they respect the constitution of the U.S. and the state, then they can start worrying about enforcing the laws.

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    Hawaii FiveO wrote:
    At that time, do you unholster and give the weapon to the LEO, or do you have to exit the car and let the LEOtake the weapon from the holster to check it?

    If you're not in a car, but outside walking, sitting (outside in a Starbucks, for example) and they, or he/she asks to check the weapon to see if it's loaded, do you pull it out, or do you let them do it?
    Do not, under any circumstances ever touch your firearm during a police encounter, there are WAY to many possibilites for a bad outcome.

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    I always end up removing my pistol from its holster during e-checks because the cops can't figure out how to manipulate the retention mechanism. Thanks, Safariland!
    Do you want to enjoy liberty in your lifetime?

    Consider moving to New Hampshire as part of the Free State Project.

    "Live Free or Die"

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    wewd wrote:
    I always end up removing my pistol from its holster during e-checks because the cops can't figure out how to manipulate the retention mechanism. Thanks, Safariland!
    I still think this is a bad idea.

    I know you guys down there are operating in a seemingly friendlier environment, but there are still risks involved. You should try out your right to remain silent and see how long the inspection lasts. If nothing else, just for kicks.

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