• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

open cary while driving?

yelohamr

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
516
Location
Vista, California, USA
imported post

If you are confronted by the police while open carrying, the last thing you should do is put your hand on your pistol. Let the LEO remove it for an e check. Otherwise you might wind up taking a dirt nap.

If you don't have a friendly witness with you, it could be classified as another "suicide by cop".
 

bigtoe416

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Messages
1,747
Location
Oregon
imported post

yelohamr wrote:
If you are confronted by the police while open carrying, the last thing you should do is put your hand on your pistol. Let the LEO remove it for an e check. Otherwise you might wind up taking a dirt nap.

If you don't have a friendly witness with you, it could be classified as another "suicide by cop".
Absolutely correct.

Condition 3 is, as usual, spot on.

The fatman should come to grips with the reality that a police officer is not a criminal lawyer or a judge. As we can see in the December 13th post here http://adnanshahab.com/?cat=118 that when you sample police for legal opinions, you get a wide variety of answers about what is legal and what is illegal. Police generally know the penal code fairly well, but they don't get to sit down and read the penal code and read case law before they make a decision.

IMO that's why police swear to uphold the constitution first, because that's something they can understand in its entirety. As long as they respect the constitution of the U.S. and the state, then they can start worrying about enforcing the laws.
 

mjones

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
976
Location
Prescott, AZ
imported post

Hawaii FiveO wrote:
At that time, do you unholster and give the weapon to the LEO, or do you have to exit the car and let the LEOtake the weapon from the holster to check it?

If you're not in a car, but outside walking, sitting (outside in a Starbucks, for example) and they, or he/she asks to check the weapon to see if it's loaded, do you pull it out, or do you let them do it?
Do not, under any circumstances ever touch your firearm during a police encounter, there are WAY to many possibilites for a bad outcome.
 

wewd

Regular Member
Joined
May 5, 2009
Messages
664
Location
Oregon
imported post

I always end up removing my pistol from its holster during e-checks because the cops can't figure out how to manipulate the retention mechanism. Thanks, Safariland! :D
 

bigtoe416

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Messages
1,747
Location
Oregon
imported post

wewd wrote:
I always end up removing my pistol from its holster during e-checks because the cops can't figure out how to manipulate the retention mechanism. Thanks, Safariland! :D
I still think this is a bad idea.

I know you guys down there are operating in a seemingly friendlier environment, but there are still risks involved. You should try out your right to remain silent and see how long the inspection lasts. If nothing else, just for kicks.
 

Gundude

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
1,691
Location
Sandy Eggo County
imported post

This is the text of an e-mail I received from the San DiegoCountyDA.

Concealed Firearms: Subject to certain exceptions, the general rule in California is that it is illegal to carry a firearms concealed in a vehicle or concealed upon ones’ person (Penal Code 12025.) Our website fully explains the procedures as to how one may apply for a CCW.

Open Carry: Unloaded weapons may be carried in belt holsters or transported openly in a vehicle, which are not concealed and do not fall under the general rule prohibiting the carrying of concealed firearms (Penal Code 12025(f).

In order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded, peace officers are authorized to examine any firearm carried by anyone on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or prohibited area of an unincorporated territory. (Penal Code 12031(3)). Refusal to allow a peace officer to inspect a firearm constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of Penal Code Section 12031.

Loaded Firearms: A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when he or she carries it on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory. (Penal Code 12031.)

Possession of a Firearm While Wearing a Mask: It is a crime to possess a firearm in a public place or on any public street while masked so as to hide the identity of the person carrying the firearm. (Penal Code 12040).

As I see it, carrying in your vehicle comes down to 3 things if you don't have a CCW.

loaded? concealed? inside 1000ft of a school?

Loaded=no

concealed=lock it up. (unimportant persons CCW) not in the glove box, console, under your coat, or under the seat.

Unconcealed=yes. On the seat, on your belt, on the dashboard, duct taped on top your head, all ok.

inside 1000ft of a school=lock it up.
 

wewd

Regular Member
Joined
May 5, 2009
Messages
664
Location
Oregon
imported post

bigtoe416 wrote:
I still think this is a bad idea.

I know you guys down there are operating in a seemingly friendlier environment, but there are still risks involved. You should try out your right to remain silent and see how long the inspection lasts. If nothing else, just for kicks.

I only do it after they ask me to. Even though we all agree that e-checks are unconstitutional, I'm not in a financial position to refuse one, and none of us are in a legal position to do so until incorporation. There is a finite level of compliance that I am willing to put up with for the time being, until such a time that we decide to practice some civil disobedience in order to force the issue.
 

bigtoe416

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Messages
1,747
Location
Oregon
imported post

wewd wrote:
bigtoe416 wrote:
I still think this is a bad idea.

I know you guys down there are operating in a seemingly friendlier environment, but there are still risks involved. You should try out your right to remain silent and see how long the inspection lasts. If nothing else, just for kicks.

I only do it after they ask me to. Even though we all agree that e-checks are unconstitutional, I'm not in a financial position to refuse one, and none of us are in a legal position to do so until incorporation. There is a finite level of compliance that I am willing to put up with for the time being, until such a time that we decide to practice some civil disobedience in order to force the issue.
Sorry, I wasn't clear on what I meant. A police officer can check your firearm to see if it is loaded, but you are not obligated in any way to assist in the process. I'm not suggesting you resist in any way, but you certainly don't have to tell them how to accomplish the 12031(e) check, and you don't have to handle your weapon. You can comply with an unloaded check while remaining entirely silent and motionless.

Pullnshoot25 super strongly encourages people to never handle their firearm even if a police officer requests that you do so. I second that idea.
 

N6ATF

Banned
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
1,401
Location
San Diego County, CA, California, USA
imported post

bigtoe416 wrote:
wewd wrote:
bigtoe416 wrote:
I still think this is a bad idea.

I know you guys down there are operating in a seemingly friendlier environment, but there are still risks involved. You should try out your right to remain silent and see how long the inspection lasts. If nothing else, just for kicks.

I only do it after they ask me to. Even though we all agree that e-checks are unconstitutional, I'm not in a financial position to refuse one, and none of us are in a legal position to do so until incorporation. There is a finite level of compliance that I am willing to put up with for the time being, until such a time that we decide to practice some civil disobedience in order to force the issue.
Sorry, I wasn't clear on what I meant. A police officer can check your firearm to see if it is loaded, but you are not obligated in any way to assist in the process. I'm not suggesting you resist in any way, but you certainly don't have to tell them how to accomplish the 12031(e) check, and you don't have to handle your weapon. You can comply with an unloaded check while remaining entirely silent and motionless.

Pullnshoot25 super strongly encourages people to never handle their firearm even if a police officer requests that you do so. I second that idea.
Thirded. Can't use entrapment as a defense if you're 6 feet under.
 

bad_ace

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Messages
327
Location
Cupertino, California, USA
imported post

N6ATF wrote:
bigtoe416 wrote:
wewd wrote:
bigtoe416 wrote:
I still think this is a bad idea.

I know you guys down there are operating in a seemingly friendlier environment, but there are still risks involved. You should try out your right to remain silent and see how long the inspection lasts. If nothing else, just for kicks.

I only do it after they ask me to. Even though we all agree that e-checks are unconstitutional, I'm not in a financial position to refuse one, and none of us are in a legal position to do so until incorporation. There is a finite level of compliance that I am willing to put up with for the time being, until such a time that we decide to practice some civil disobedience in order to force the issue.
Sorry, I wasn't clear on what I meant. A police officer can check your firearm to see if it is loaded, but you are not obligated in any way to assist in the process. I'm not suggesting you resist in any way, but you certainly don't have to tell them how to accomplish the 12031(e) check, and you don't have to handle your weapon. You can comply with an unloaded check while remaining entirely silent and motionless.

Pullnshoot25 super strongly encourages people to never handle their firearm even if a police officer requests that you do so. I second that idea.
Thirded. Can't use entrapment as a defense if you're 6 feet under.

Fourth. Check out this encounter, my gun doesn't leave the holster. I was wearing a holster who's only retention in friction, you have to pull straight up to unholster. I could feel the deputy was having trouble so I told him about the round indicator on the Beretta 92 and he accepted that and let me co about my lawful business :) I was not going to unholster it for him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQDJdurpUsA
 

YounGunz

New member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
4
Location
, ,
imported post

1.)Is a full faced motorcycle helmet considered masked with intent of hiding identity? 2.) when nearing school zones, should i pull over, look for a spot to place in a locked pac safe shoulder bag i have, then drive through? i know i dont want to be seen "brandishing", so do i hide what im doing the best i can? maybe stop at a fast food restroom? 3.) also i read that if an empty magazine is inserted into the magwell it squashes the whole integral part thing. is this true? i ask because it will be difficult if not impossible to keep my jacket from covering at least the top half of the magazine pouches, unlike the pistol which its holster is secured to stay on top of the jacket. sorry for the many ?'s. i just need to be sure before i take any risks. OHH, 1 more; 4.) would the magazines need to be put in the locked container as well as the pistol while LUCC'n?
 
Top