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Thread: Brand new and question

  1. #1
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    Hi all. I'm a newbie to this forum. I live in San Jose, CA but own a home in Highland so I have a small interest in Utah OC subforum. I have a couple of questions. Why would a person with a Utah CFP open carry? I have a Utah CFP and I'd rather have my G17 concealed than open to ovoid obvious problems.

    Another question, can you carry loaded OC in Utah? I've been reading as much as I canand it seemsthat you *can* carry loaded OC.



    Thank you



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    Why OC? Lots of reasons. Public education. Political activism. Deterrence. Comfort. Those are a few, but there are lots more.

    What are the "obvious problems" you expect to arise from OC?

    As for loaded OC, yes you can OC loaded with a CFP. Without a CFP, it's illegal to possess a loaded firearm on a public street (unless in your vehicle).

  3. #3
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    Welcome! I agree with the above post, there are many reasons to OC. My question to you is, why not?

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    Hawaii FiveO wrote:
    Hi all. I'm a newbie to this forum. I live in San Jose, CA but own a home in Highland so I have a small interest in Utah OC subforum. I have a couple of questions. Why would a person with a Utah CFP open carry? I have a Utah CFP and I'd rather have my G17 concealed than open to ovoid obvious problems.

    Another question, can you carry loaded OC in Utah? I've been reading as much as I canand it seemsthat you *can* carry loaded OC.



    Thank you

    Sometimes it is just the comfort of the clothing you happen to be wearing that day, for others it may be the reasons above.

    You can carry loaded with a valid CFP. If you do not have a valid CFP, just make sure you know the exceptions. There are some.

    Good luck.

  5. #5
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Indeed, why not OC?

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  6. #6
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    swillden wrote:
    Why OC? Lots of reasons. Public education. Political activism. Deterrence. Comfort. Those are a few, but there are lots more.
    Public education and political activism can be done in many other ways. Deterrence? As an ex-cop I can tell you that professional, career criminals have ways to go around obstaclessuch asan OC. They just go somewhere else to commit their crime. Comfort is a personal thing.

    What are the "obvious problems" you expect to arise from OC?
    Well, there are some postings where OC individuals have been confronted by police, store workers, store managers, bus companies, etc.

    As for loaded OC, yes you can OC loaded with a CFP. Without a CFP, it's illegal to possess a loaded firearm on a public street (unless in your vehicle).
    As I said, I have a Utah CFP. I personally feel more comfortable wearing concealed. I guess after two academies and 6 years with three departments plusshooting once a month I can say that if I have to react I'm sure I can do it as well as an OC person. However, since I'm mostly in CA I obviously cannot carry concealed, so it's OC here. But as soon as I hit the road and arrive in Utah it's concealed.

  7. #7
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    keyword = LOADED on a public street. Without a permit, you just can't have a round in the chamber.

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    Hawaii FiveO wrote:
    Public education and political activism can be done in many other ways.
    No, they can't. At least, you can't accomplish the same thing in other ways. The goal is to get the general public used to seeing normal-looking people calmly going about their daily business armed. You can't achieve that any way other than doing it.

    Hawaii FiveO wrote:
    Deterrence? As an ex-cop I can tell you that professional, career criminals have ways to go around obstaclessuch asan OC. They just go somewhere else to commit their crime.
    That's exactly the point. I'm not a police officer. My concern isn't to stop crooks, it's just to keep them from bothering me and the people around me. If my openly-visible firearm convinces a criminal to hit the store two blocks over rather than the one I'm in, I successfully deterred him.

    Moreover, the problem with concealment is that the lawfully-carrying citizen is always in reactive mode, because the firearm can't be deployed until the criminal is committed. If you'll allow me a bit of overstatement, CC is for people who want to shoot someone; OC is for people who don't.

    Hawaii FiveO wrote:
    Comfort is a personal thing.
    Certainly, but the most common concealed carry method is IWB, and there's virtually no way to make that as comfortable as OWB. Personally, I never carry IWB. I have a couple of holsters but it's just too uncomfortable. When I CC it's either OWB with a jacket, or SmartCarry, or pocket carry (only a very small gun can be carried that way, obviously).

    Hawaii FiveO wrote:
    Well, there are some postings where OC individuals have been confronted by police, store workers, store managers, bus companies, etc.
    Yes, those things happen, but they're rare. Rare enough that it's not reasonable to call them "obvious problems".

    Hawaii FiveO wrote:
    However, since I'm mostly in CA I obviously cannot carry concealed, so it's OC here. But as soon as I hit the road and arrive in Utah it's concealed.
    There's not a thing wrong with that. No one is suggesting that you should open carry. If you want to do it for one of the reasons I mentioned, or just to exercise your rights, or for some other reason of your own, great! If you'd prefer to CC, that's great, too. Mostly, I'd just hope that you don't criticize those who do prefer OC, and that you not fall into the common trap of believing that OCers must be unsure of their manhood or otherwise trying to stroke their ego.

  9. #9
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Interesting you would be so quick to relinquish a right in favor of a privilege in such a good place for exercising that right.

  10. #10
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    thx997303 wrote:
    Interesting you would be so quick to relinquish a right in favor of a privilege in such a good place for exercising that right.
    Respectfully, I think there is way too much made of this supposed distinction of OCing being a "right' and CCing being a "privilege."

    As far as I'm concerned, both are rights. And both are infringed to various degrees.

    Have you ever really looked at how many gun free school zones we have in Utah once you consider K-12, plus licensed day cares, PLUS every post secondary and trade school including beauty schools and real estate schools located in strip malls? Then toss in the 1000' radius. Sure, not really enforced very often, but always a risk if some cop and prosecutor decide to make your life miserable.

    And what, my "right" to carry a gun somehow requires that the gun be "Utah unloaded"?!?!?!?!!

    The fact of the matter is, the State Constitution does not grant the legislature ANY authority to regulate how we carry a gun, only to regulate the actual USE of guns.

    So our right to carry is infringed. It is infringed in requiring a permit to carry loaded, or concealed, or into a "school zone."

    Our legal choices at the present time are to NOT carry loaded, NOT carry discretely, AND not carry into a school zone, OR to get a permit and make the personal choice, day by day, even hour by hour or minute by minute, on all of the above.

    OC is A fine way to carry. CC is another fine way to carry. Casually concealed is yet another perfectly good way to carry. Doing any (or more than one: OC or CCC a primary, CC a BUG) of the above without having to worry about school zones, AND in condition 1, has some real advantages so far as I'm concerned.

    Peaceably carrying a gun is right. Period, end of story. It is just infringed to various degrees and having a permit to carry increases your legal options in how and where to carry.

    The good news, however, is that in Utah, the right to carry is less infringed this year than it was last year as we can now CC a fully loaded handgun in our own cars without needing a permit. It is less infringed than it was 15 years ago when it was difficult to obtain a permit under discretionary issue.

    Let's work to make sure it is less infringed in the years ahead, than it is today.

    Charles




    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  11. #11
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    utbagpiper wrote:
    Peaceably carrying a gun is right. Period, end of story. It is just infringed to various degrees and having a permit to carry increases your legal options in how and where to carry.
    +1

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    Hawaii FiveO wrote:
    I guess after two academies and 6 years with three departments plusshooting once a month I can say that if I have to react I'm sure I can do it as well as an OC person. However, since I'm mostly in CA I obviously cannot carry concealed, so it's OC here. But as soon as I hit the road and arrive in Utah it's concealed.
    WOW you are ready for action. Shooting once a month. Glad the popo are on top of the game.

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    Vegassteve wrote:
    Hawaii FiveO wrote:
    I guess after two academies and 6 years with three departments plusshooting once a month I can say that if I have to react I'm sure I can do it as well as an OC person. However, since I'm mostly in CA I obviously cannot carry concealed, so it's OC here. But as soon as I hit the road and arrive in Utah it's concealed.
    WOW you are ready for action. Shooting once a month. Glad the popo are on top of the game.
    POPO? Who?

  14. #14
    Regular Member UtahJarhead's Avatar
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    popo = POrk PatrOl

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