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Double Action New "Open Carry" Policy

T

T Vance

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reidksmith wrote:
From what I gather, many CC so that they don't have to be concerned with a gun grab while dealing with a customer, (when their attention is with the customer, and not on their hip.)
Click to expand...



Most OCer's use very good retention holsters. Another point I'd like to make is many of these gun shops I hear about that ban OC, have employees that OC in the gun store. Why is there a double standard?
 
S

springerdave

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So, lets say I have a business selling guns, and I cater to a small number of one-time buyers that don't want to see OC, you know the guy that wants a gun for the dresser drawer and might not tell another soul that he bought a gun. At the same time I alienate the very people that will give me good reviews by telling others about the gun friendly service that they got at my store, you know the guy that wants a gun for car travel and another gun for carrying openly during hunting season and then another gun for wearing in the summer and another for....:banghead:. It seems that my business would be better if I sold more guns, to lets say NON HOPOLOPHOBIC persons. Just sayin'.springerdave.
 
DanM

DanM

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springerdave wrote:
It seems that my business would be better if I sold more guns, to lets say NON HOPOLOPHOBIC persons.
Click to expand...

Good point. Customerswho are comfortable with guns andcarrying tend to spend more and be repeat customers than people who are not comfortable with guns or carry.

I think the gun shops who don't have ridiculous, hoplophobic carry bans seem to grasp that concept.
 
M

mikestilly

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reidksmith wrote:
Like I mentioned, this is a business, not a political office. I understand you guys have strong feelings about OC, and you're going to argue for it. But, again, it's a business. From working with the customers, I can tell that some would be uncomfortable around OC. Do I think that is logical? No. Do I think they should deal with it? Yes. But do I think it makes more sense to slide my shirt over my gun, and keep a customer in the store? Absolutely.

In response to the question about my OC/CC: I CC, technically, but not for anything that would pass as CC on the street. I usually wear a t-shirt and will wear a G19 in an outside paddle holster, with the tee over the gun. It is obvious to anyone that is experienced and looking that I am carrying, but it is not advertised. Many customers tell me that they don't realize I carry (until I mention it). Others make a more concerted effort to CC. A few OC. From what I gather, many CC so that they don't have to be concerned with a gun grab while dealing with a customer, (when their attention is with the customer, and not on their hip.)

And again, I am the messenger. No need to refute my arguments to me, as I pretty much agree with you already. As I said, I probably would not prohibit OC from my gun shop unless, after trying it out, I found that it had a negative effect on business.
Click to expand...

OK let me ask you this from one small business owner to the next. When someone consciously bans OC'ers from their gun shop how many OC'ers and people who believe in the RTBA folks do you offend offering this comfort to the few people that go to a gun shop that are scared by OC'ers. I'd think it's safe to say you're loosing way more customers by pacifying a couple people complaining. To me that's not smart business sense that just means you have no balls to tell the couple people that have issues with it the truth about OC'ing .. The fact that it's 100% legal and they are still going to have to see OC'ers out on the street .. well enough said. It's a real tired argument an stems from anti's. It starts with banning OC'ers next it's banning CC'ers, then it's turning the state in to New Jersey. YA GET MY POINT?
 
J

joshuaeberly

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mikestilly wrote:

OK let me ask you this from one small business owner to the next. When someone consciously bans OC'ers from their gun shop how many OC'ers and people who believe in the RTBA folks do you offend offering this comfort to the few people that go to a gun shop that are scared by OC'ers. I'd think it's safe to say you're loosing way more customers by pacifying a couple people complaining. To me that's not smart business sense that just means you have no balls to tell the couple people that have issues with it the truth about OC'ing .. The fact that it's 100% legal and they are still going to have to see OC'ers out on the street .. well enough said. It's a real tired argument an stems from anti's. It starts with banning OC'ers next it's banning CC'ers, then it's turning the state in to New Jersey. YA GET MY POINT?
Click to expand...
all the discussion, bickering and arguing. let's simplify this.
either you support the RTKBA, or you oppose it.
if you in any way attempt to restrict the RTKBA, you obviously oppose it, regardless of what you say.
therefore, the owners of double action OPPOSE the RTKBA, by prohibiting the free exercise of the right on their property, but VIOLATE their own VALUES, by attempting to CAPITALIZE on CITIZENS spending MONEY to exercise the RTKBA that the owners of double action OPPOSE. AND in ADDITION, they set forth a double standard, by allowing OC by employees, but NOT by customers (it's ok for me to exercise my RTKBA, but it only applies to ME or the people I SELECT, YOU have NO right to RTKBA)

now, anybody want to support any hypocritical, anti-gun, ban supporting FUDDS like this???

didn't think so.
carry on.

P.S. I'll take my business to the silver bullet, AL + Bobs, Rileys or Gander Mountain. none of them have a problem with OC. as a matter of fact, Rileys has been known to hand out OC brochures, and Silver bullet is tagged "lawful carry welcome".
 
PDinDetroit

PDinDetroit

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The change in rules is probably due to the fact that I was OC'ing on the range a few weeks ago and they most definitely noticed. I kept it CC until I was on the range, took off my coat, and then went OC and only while I was at the range. This was according their rules at the time, which was to keep it CC until at the range. One of the times, I walked out of the range to ask to use a screwdriver to adjust gunsights while OC'ing an Empty Holster (one guy definitely noticed).

I have spoken to some of them a couple times about OC - they definitely know it is legal but refer to it as "not illegal", which is just plain dumb on their part. I agree, either they support RTKBA or they do not.

They have a "less than stellar" customer service and general bad attitudes from the persons working behind the counter. They are definitely not trying to "cater to the customer" by not frightening them off by OC'ing since most, if not all, of their employees OC on the job.

I really cannot see spending any more $ with them until they change their attitude/rules or a change in Ownership/Management occurs (which is more likely to fix the situation).
 
eastmeyers

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WELCOME!!! Anyways Mr. stropS tegraT, I've purchesed firearms from you before, GREAT CUSTOMER service, even though your store does not allow OC, your employees don't seem to be DBs.


God Bless
 
M

mikestilly

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FYI all that sign is not new. It's been there for over a year maybe 2 or more. The exact sign as it is in the picture. It's also not a new policy it's just one that nobody made public until now ;)
 
TheSzerdi

TheSzerdi

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mikestilly wrote:
FYI all that sign is not new. It's been there for over a year maybe 2 or more. The exact sign as it is in the picture. It's also not a new policy it's just one that nobody made public until now ;)
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That is incorrect. The sign had nothing to say about OC on it until fairly recently. I can't remember when I was last there, but it was within about a year and at the time the sign said nothing of OC.
 
PDinDetroit

PDinDetroit

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TheSzerdi wrote:
mikestilly wrote:
FYI all that sign is not new. It's been there for over a year maybe 2 or more. The exact sign as it is in the picture. It's also not a new policy it's just one that nobody made public until now ;)
Click to expand...
That is incorrect. The sign had nothing to say about OC on it until fairly recently. I can't remember when I was last there, but it was within about a year and at the time the sign said nothing of OC.
Click to expand...
That is correct, I made sure to stop and read it before I OC'ed on the range. It said nothing about OC prior to this NEW SIGN.
 
PDinDetroit

PDinDetroit

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reidksmith wrote:
Thanks Meyers.

And yes, I agree with most of what you guys are saying, if not all of it.
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rks - It was quite a jump for me to OC the first few times. I was concerned about how it would be taken, would the cops tackle and arrest me, etc. I had no issue the first 2 times, but the third time a neighbor did a "duck and cover" to which we have a good laugh about now. Most people do not even notice when I am OC'ing and those that do either smile/nod my way or pay little attention to me. I have had many people talk with me about OC'ing and I am glad to share the information I have found here. This is as it should be!

I will say this, after the first OC around the neighborhood I felt as if I carried a great responsibility with the act of OC'ing. Now, I put on a pistol as I put on my pants - it is just second nature and CC or OC as I feel like it.

It is my earnest hope that all who read these words will experience similar events and express their freedom how they see fit.
 
R

reidksmith

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Well, PDin, I'm surprised that you've been that well accepted in R.O.

The main reason I don't OC around town is simply that I don't want to deal withpeople looking. If I had a compelling advantage to do it, (and I'm sure that the responses to this post will be a fusilade of such advantages,) I would... but I don't. However, if I had to, I'd feel pretty confident doing it. I've spoken to several officers who have said they wouldn't respond to an OC complaint call if everything else was normal.
 
eastmeyers

eastmeyers

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reidksmith wrote:
Thanks Meyers.

And yes, I agree with most of what you guys are saying, if not all of it.
Click to expand...

No problem, and now that I've finally got a good guy that works at a shop within ten miles of me I'll PM you to find out who to ask for when I buy my next pistol, where I already have.

;)



God Bless
 
Taurus850CIA

Taurus850CIA

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, Michigan, USA
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reidksmith wrote:
snip... I've been muzzled by loaded handguns on multiple occasions.
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That reasoning does not hold up either. I've been muzzle swept by gun shop employees multiple times, and by off duty police officers. My dad walked into a gun shop just two days ago looking for a new holster, and produced his Sigma upon request. He drew with the muzzle pointed to the floor, and layed it on the counter with the muzzle pointed away from people. The gunshop owner then picked it up and swept him with it. Dad asked: "You know that's loaded, don't you?" Shop owner said "yeah". Then the shop owner swept him again, and dad proceeded to complain loudly. My dad didn't expect him to pick up a loaded gun, let alone sweep him. Of course, I immediately took the opportunity to scold him for not unloading it first! ;)

The point is, everyone can make a mistake, including gun shop employees. Some of those are maybe more prone to let things slide due to years on non-incident leading to complacency. The banning of OC has absolutely no bearing on a persons practice of safe gun handling.



I'm not trying to convince anyone here, and I understand that an OC gun shop will make OC more acceptable, and understand how someone who OCs is handicapped by a gun shop that requires CC. Are the above the greatest reasons to require CC? No. If I opened a gun shop, would I prohibit OC? Probably not.
Click to expand...
Sounds to me like you have a logical head on your shoulders. Welcome to OCDO.
 
Michigander

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reidksmith wrote:
If I had a compelling advantage to do it, (and I'm sure that the responses to this post will be a fusilade of such advantages,) I would... but I don't. However, if I had to, I'd feel pretty confident doing it.
Click to expand...
When you decide to arm yourself, you take on one of the biggest responsibilities known to man. Carrying a gun dwarfs such problems as cancer, your house burning down, and nasty break ups with long time spouses. Having the ability to end lives quickly and efficiently could not possibly be more serious. If you choose to carry, do it legally, responsibly, and in a way you feel comfortable. Beyond that, it's all up to you.

If you don't want to OC, you shouldn't, and no one here has a right to bad mouth you for it. Some here don't OC at all, and many only do it at events.
 
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