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Thread: Taking the lead with the legislature

  1. #1
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    I'd be interested in what CT residents would be interested in with regards to repealing useless or nonsensical firearms statutes.

    My thoughts are as follows:

    1. The CT Assault Weapons Ban is idiotic, all it does is keep law abiding folks from owning brand name AR-15's when you can easily purchase the same item made by different manufacturers OR pre-ban weapons.

    Why is a muzzle hider one of the banned items but a muzzle brake not? strike it
    Why is a bayonet lug one of the banned items ? who goes around with a bayonet?
    Why is a collapsible stock one of the banned items? is 4 less inches really going to make a difference?

    Face it, this statute is a "feel good" piece of legislation that does nothing to make the streets safer because nobody can run around with a new Colt AR-15 but they can with a Bushmaster clone? Nobody has bayonet lugs and how many people were killed with bayonets pre this law?

    2. Defacto registration of firearms. With handguns there is no legal way to sell privately without filling out paperwork and getting authorization numbers. What good does this statute do? criminals pay cash for whatever they want, all it means is a way to slow down private transfers - oh and provide a confiscation list (of legal owners) when the powers that be decide we are not to be trusted with them.

    3. What Grapeshot said in another posting state preemption of all local firearms laws. That would level the playing field no matter where you lived.

    Any others people would like removed? How about things you'd like to see? Personally I'd like to see the mandatory requirement of a permit to purchase a pistol removed. The only "privilege" we should need to get permission for is concealed carry. Open carry should be able to be exercised as is OUR RIGHT, we shouldn't have to grovel to DPS to exercise our God given right to self defense!

    Robert

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    The Top 11 List.

    1. The AWB
    2. The "cannot" transfer machine gun to a "minor" crap they passed last year.
    3. The requirement for a permit to buy a pistol.
    4. The 14 day waiting period on long guns sales from FFL within the state.
    5. The "Safe" storage law with regards to minors.
    6. We should be able to carry openly without a permit or carry in a car (glove compartment)
    7. Gun Seizure law.
    8. We need a full Fla style castle doctrine.
    9. Cut the town out and make it a true shall issue state for those wanting a permit to conceal.
    10. Preemption.
    11. The "lost or stolen" gun nonsense.

    There is probably a lot more..How about we just copy and paste Vermont's firearms statutes into the CGS and call it a day...

  3. #3
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    Yeah Vermont is what all states ought to be "shooting" for. What would DPS do if they didn't have all this transfer busy-work to do? Someone think of the bureaucrats! (as in think of the children).


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    i personally think the unwritten laws the cops and liberal prosecutors inforce should be straightened out. like the concealed carry rules on never letting anyone see it, or the open carry bop unwritten laws.

    the bayonet law is ridiculous. the evil features laws are ridiculous for that matter.
    gun free zones, i hate that my safety is a non issue in schools yet they dont secure the school with armed gaurds at each door. i am sure there is more.



    i want to get an opinion based on a previous responder on permits to purchase pistols. imo right or wrong the permit process keeps alot of criminals from buying guns from gun stores. thus keeping evil gun stores out of the news and out of the association between crime and guns/stores. i guess in a way it helps our cause.

    i also believe the 2nd doesnt allow for a permit ect, although i believe the 2nd guarantees the right, and each state should be to his own on making the laws. less federal involvement is better.

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    I wasn't saying that any Tom Dick or Harry (apologies if that's your name) walks in off the street and purchases a handgun with no NICS check. Prohibited persons shouldn't have guns I think we all agree on that. If you haven't gone through the whole background check/permit procedure or have a hunting license then waiting periods are annoying but probably ok.

    However, if you're not a prohibited person then you should be able to purchase a handgun or other firearm without having to go through the hoops the DPS have in place with regards permitting. If you want to carry concealed then ok, then you can mandate some minimal training and a more thorough background check.

    I still don't like the state having the serial numbers of my pistols, it smacks of a confiscation list. In the states that DON'T take serial numbers of peoples purchases, do they have a huge problem with folks with guns? I'm not sure they do.

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    What about something as simple as allowing SLFU to issue a permit if the local issuing authority denies an application for ridiculous reasons?

    Such reasons could include:
    1. Application includes arrests that never happened
    2. Applicant doesn't submit to additional requirements by local issuing authority
    3. Application does not list arrest from 30 years ago in another state for solicitation
    These are all reasons REAL people have been denied permits. Their only recourse is to wait 18 months to have their denial heard before the BFPE.

    Between 2009 and 2010, there are 182 denials scheduled for appeals and only 108 revocations. My gut feeling is that we could easily unburden the board of at least 30% of their cases by giving the SLFU a little discretion in overturning denials.

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    Towns shouldn't be in the business of determining who does or who doesn't get permits. It shouldn't be a matter of "Live in Willington and get a permit in 4 weeks or heaven forbid you live in New Haven and it takes months and months"

    The towns shouldn't be party to it, nor should they need to be informed of it either.

    If you pass background checks, not prohibited and have the safety certificate you should get the permit on the spot. Screw the towns, let DPS issue on the spot and take the local police department out of the loop.

    my thoughts on it anyway.

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    GoldCoaster wrote:
    I wasn't saying that any Tom Dick or Harry (apologies if that's your name) walks in off the street and purchases a handgun with no NICS check. Prohibited persons shouldn't have guns I think we all agree on that. If you haven't gone through the whole background check/permit procedure or have a hunting license then waiting periods are annoying but probably ok.

    However, if you're not a prohibited person then you should be able to purchase a handgun or other firearm without having to go through the hoops the DPS have in place with regards permitting. If you want to carry concealed then ok, then you can mandate some minimal training and a more thorough background check.

    I still don't like the state having the serial numbers of my pistols, it smacks of a confiscation list. In the states that DON'T take serial numbers of peoples purchases, do they have a huge problem with folks with guns? I'm not sure they do.
    i am of the belief that a permit is a restriction on our rights, but i have never thought of a way to get around it, and keep criminals from going into tom, dick and harry's gun shop and buying a gun. the nics check is good, but it is not perfect. look at the v tech shootings. i am honestly more comfortable with the process of having a required safety class to get a permit. but like you said in your last post, the locals can be a huge pia. mine was simple, but a good buddy from waterbury got screwed because they "lost" his paperwork. he had to got through the bs again. luckily he did not have to do the safety class again.

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    I think a right is a right..and although it may sound extreme (in 2009, not in 1993) I believe even background checks are an infringement and unconstitutional...I know i am not the only one...

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    I believe the less restrictions the better, even if felons are in danger of being allowed to buy weapons. The real thing you want to think about here is security risk and crime punishment after a real crime is committed. For example, if someone from the North End of Hartford has a felony but really just want to protect himself and mind his own business, and doesn't have the wear-with-all to go through the pardon process, should he be disallowed to carry? I suspect there is a lot of downward spirals of folks in a position like that, where the current system breeds a contempt for the law because that is what they have to do to survive.

    In theory, I think the towns should have more power to do what they want. I may not like it, but if New Haven wants to be totalitarian (and given some posts about what they do for background checks, I don't know what else you really would call it) and have their process the way it is, maybe they should be allowed to do so. But, at the same time, let another town, say Woodbridge, be allowed to mandate that everyone that is a member of the unorganized militia (CGS 27-1 and 27-2http://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/pub/chap504.htm) keep, bear and go to mandatory training days with their firearms (just as the law in Connecticut was more than a hundred years ago). Or, in East Haven, they chuse that there are very few gun laws, that you can buy any gun without a background check, and don't need a permit to carry.

    Just something to think about.

  11. #11
    Regular Member atrule's Avatar
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    I think that one of the main projects of CCDL should be to:

    list the laws in the CGS.

    Debate them.

    Find which ones the membership wishes to do away with first, i.e. prioritize which ones are the worst which are the best.

    Then, figure out which ones might be the easiest to chip away at and garner the most publick support to do so.

    Then strategize and start a plan to do so.

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    Agreed Atrule, hence starting some dialog on which rules we know about that are not really doing us (law abiding citizens) any good since we all know the law only applies to those who adhere to it.

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    I'm not in any disagreement with anything being said so far. However, I don't believe we will be able to do away with the permitting process, or even the local issuing authority in one fell swoop.

    It starts with reform and the only way to have reform is to convince the people in power that your way is the right way, or get people into power who think as you do. That's a very difficult prospect in a state as blue as Connecticut.

    Our rights have consistently been stripped away from us since our founding. It wasn't all at once, but little by little, bit by bit. Likewise, restoring our rights isn't going to be done all at once. It was only last year that the Supreme Court recognized that the right to keep and bear arms exists within one's home and the Federal government can only impose reasonable restrictions. Next year, we find out if state, county, and town governments are barred from imposing unreasonable restrictions on our rights to keep and bear arms within our homes. A few years after that (with Heller 2) we'll find out about carrying outside one's home.

    My suggestion came as a first baby step. Sure our system sucks, but it can be made incrementally better with a simple, common sense, change. A change that should offend virtually no one.

    I'm looking forward to the day when all states have Vermont style gun laws, non-violent felons are not prohibited from owning firearms and anyone can petition to have their rights restored. That day is not today; it is not tomorrow; it is years down the road.

    It is unfortunate that gun owners in Connecticut lack the clout needed to get real change enacted. Until we have it, we need to start with small wins. Wins we can point to and say "Look, that wasn't so bad, was it? We have more ideas like it. Let's work together to make them work."

    We can only win in government by convincing the people on the fence that the grass is greener on our side.

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    Regular Member atrule's Avatar
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    GlueGun, I agree with you. In one of my above posts, I tried to outline an organized disciplined approach.

    First figure out what the gun laws are and their consequences. This is a bit of research. One of the things I am doing is put relevant gun statutes in one Word document. I think case law is another thing to consider, and also what DPS are doing. Much of the start of this is in this forum, but it has to be better organized.

    Second, is to debate them to get it straight in some people's heads, at least, so we can have some good analysis.

    Third, do sort of a poll among the members of CCDL, and the gun owners of Connecticut. This is a good point to see which laws, etc. would be the worse ones on the books and in our perspective the first ones to go, given the information just debated. This is the start of our priority list.

    Fourth, figure out public opinion in general about certain points of these laws. See what the public would be most agreeable, or supportable for certain laws being not on the books. Or, find out what kind of mischief they would want and keep an eye on it. Also, figure out where putting which pressure where in the legislature, DPS, state police, etc. would give the most favorable results.

    Fifth, strategize how to put this into a plan and start doing it. Figure out how to economize on efforts too to maximize the biggest bang for the buck (time and effort). I think CCDL is already doing this. I have only been to two meetings, so far, unfortunately.


    For me, I don't know if anyone else is doing this, but I am in the process of putting the laws into a Word document and editing them. It's over a hundred pages now. Some of the laws I have in there are superfluous, others that should be there are not, and some of the addenda in it I am trying to decide to weed out or not.

    One of the reasons for this is a quick reference for debate. But, also, an easy format to read for any gun owner.

    Does anyone have suggestions? Is anyone doing the same thing? Maybe we can work together on this.

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    Atrule I think what you're doing will be quite valuable as it will save a lot of time going through all the statutes to get to the ones we want to look at. At the very least it can serve as a good starting point for what we want to accomplish.

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    Andrew,

    You have 100 pages already???
    That absolutely needs to be weeded down to a manageable number.

    Keep up the good work and remember this takes a lot of effort on your part and others. My suggestion is to get into the mix at the next CCDL meeting and be prepared to attend adhoc meetings with Committee Coordinators so that we can proceed with this large task.

    Carry On!

    Lenny
    The Connecticut Citizens Defense League is a non-partisan, grassroots organization devoted to advocating rights affirmed by the Constitutions of the United States of America and the State of Connecticut. We are especially dedicated to protecting the unalienable right of all citizens to keep and bear arms, for the defense of both self and state, through public enlightenment and legislative action.
    Join Here: http://www.ccdl.us/membership

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    Regular Member atrule's Avatar
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    Len, this sounds good.

    I haven't been around enough to see what committees have been started. I suppose I could come up with some, but then people have to man them.

    Since you're in the loop, is there a committee that what I just said above fits into? Doing this through email works out well too.

    Andy

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    Regular Member Lenny Benedetto's Avatar
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    Andy,

    On the CCDL website under ABOUT, there is CONTACT. That page will show you all the different positions that we have and who has stepped up to run that part of our organization. Feel free to contact them and offer any input/help that you think is pertinent to our cause.

    Happy Thanksgiving To you and everybody on the OC forum.
    The Connecticut Citizens Defense League is a non-partisan, grassroots organization devoted to advocating rights affirmed by the Constitutions of the United States of America and the State of Connecticut. We are especially dedicated to protecting the unalienable right of all citizens to keep and bear arms, for the defense of both self and state, through public enlightenment and legislative action.
    Join Here: http://www.ccdl.us/membership

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