kparker
Regular Member
imported post
No story in the News Tribune yet?
No story in the News Tribune yet?
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Stopped an arson last night
- Thread starter TRAKATAK
- Start date
TRAKATAK
Regular Member
imported post
As for home defense, my Sig is my carry pistol. For home defense there are at least 3 more options for me, 2 of them have way more firepower than my .40 Sig.
Also, I knew I would be put in the prone and cuffed, so there was no surprise about what would happen when the police arrived. She had stopped in the middle of the street, I was only 4 feet from her, and the entire street was a puddle, because (no surprise) it was raining in Washington........HARD. My nearest dry land was more than 15 feet away, and I was not going to meander over to it holding a gun when the police VERY QUICKLY arrived on scene. But I understand your intent on the comment. When POSSIBLE....position yourself appropriately. In this case, it was not possible.
Finally, no....no pistol lanyard. Not a fan of them, and in this case, it would have complicated the whole "Drop your gun!!" thing. Many who use them may not have thought of that situation.
As for home defense, my Sig is my carry pistol. For home defense there are at least 3 more options for me, 2 of them have way more firepower than my .40 Sig.
Also, I knew I would be put in the prone and cuffed, so there was no surprise about what would happen when the police arrived. She had stopped in the middle of the street, I was only 4 feet from her, and the entire street was a puddle, because (no surprise) it was raining in Washington........HARD. My nearest dry land was more than 15 feet away, and I was not going to meander over to it holding a gun when the police VERY QUICKLY arrived on scene. But I understand your intent on the comment. When POSSIBLE....position yourself appropriately. In this case, it was not possible.
Finally, no....no pistol lanyard. Not a fan of them, and in this case, it would have complicated the whole "Drop your gun!!" thing. Many who use them may not have thought of that situation.
.45ACPaddy
Regular Member
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Nosrac wrote:
Nosrac wrote:
I live 6 blocks away from the intersection.
N6ATF
Banned
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TRAKATAK wrote:
TRAKATAK wrote:
Just another way to place it on the ground, without having to hold it and possibly get shot as you do so. You unvelcro the lanyard belt loop while the gun is hanging and lower it, or just let it hang, hands sky high (as far as they can possibly be from the gun), and let them secure it.
chewy352
Regular Member
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Decoligny wrote:
Decoligny wrote:
I take it you have never lived in Washington. Don't get me wrong i love the state but most of it is a puddle lol.
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"
They of course cuffed me first, as I had the gun, and told me they were detaining me until they could sort the whole thing out. "
Then Id be talking to a lawyer. You (we) are authorized under RCW to bear arms to assist LEO. Not be arrested by them.
"
They of course cuffed me first, as I had the gun, and told me they were detaining me until they could sort the whole thing out. "
Then Id be talking to a lawyer. You (we) are authorized under RCW to bear arms to assist LEO. Not be arrested by them.
N6ATF
Banned
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Capn Camo wrote:
Capn Camo wrote:
Good point.
Johnny Law
Regular Member
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N6ATF wrote:
N6ATF wrote:
This is how these situations are handled by Police, and TRAKATAK was well aware of this. As for talking to a lawyer, I guaranteeyou would be wasting your time and money. The "assisting" you are referring to is ifREQUESTED by LE to assist. This is usually a bad idea except in extreme circumstances as thePD will now bear responsibility for a citizens actions, and most Cops are not willing to take a big risk on an unknown quantity. Also that was a detainment, not an arrest.
joeroket
Regular Member
imported post
N6ATF wrote:
Except he was not assisting any LEO. He was ordering another citizen to the ground at gun point. The law allows it if we are acting under the officers command and in the officers aid. He was never acting under an officers command.
N6ATF wrote:
Except he was not assisting any LEO. He was ordering another citizen to the ground at gun point. The law allows it if we are acting under the officers command and in the officers aid. He was never acting under an officers command.
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
imported post
N6ATF wrote:
I don't know about anybody else, but no amount of "atta boys" from the cops is gonna make up for making me lay on wet pavement in 40-degree weather, getting cuffed, and put in a patrol car for half an hour when I was the good guy helping someone else.
Come on, already. Just putting down the gun or holstering it is plenty. If the cop can't tell who the good guy is froma few moments of interaction, plus the phone call and on-scene witnesses, something is really missing here. Like, judgement, maybe.
Give me a break.
N6ATF wrote:
I don't know about anybody else, but no amount of "atta boys" from the cops is gonna make up for making me lay on wet pavement in 40-degree weather, getting cuffed, and put in a patrol car for half an hour when I was the good guy helping someone else.
Come on, already. Just putting down the gun or holstering it is plenty. If the cop can't tell who the good guy is froma few moments of interaction, plus the phone call and on-scene witnesses, something is really missing here. Like, judgement, maybe.
Give me a break.
N6ATF
Banned
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Johnny Law wrote:
Johnny Law wrote:
Call 911 on your hands-free, ask them if they want your assistance in arresting this attempted arsonist. If they say no, they bear responsibility for telling you to back off and let a massive explosion occur, if they say yes please, then they shouldn't arrest and unarrest you and try to get away with it by using the sick euphemism "detainment".
Johnny Law
Regular Member
imported post
Citizen wrote:
Police arrive = everyone is disarmed until the circumstances are sorted out.
Citizen wrote:
I understand your point, but you are only seeing a narrow view of the incident, from TRAK's perspective. What you don't know is that there were several passersby that called 911 and said that there was a fire, and some guy had a gun pointed at a person who is on the ground. Do you think the people who called 911 knew what was going on?Neither did the Copsarriving onscene, as it is very difficult to know who did what, and who is the bg. Add darkness and rain and a potential explosion, and you can begin to see this from a Cops perspective.
Police arrive = everyone is disarmed until the circumstances are sorted out.
TRAKATAK
Regular Member
imported post
Johnny Law, you hit the nail on the head. For any person on this website to think that the police were in any way out of order is denying the reality of the situation and they are, frankly, being delusional. Were I the police, I would have acted the same way if I came to the scene with the exact information they had been given. They didn't know me from Adam, so why should they take my word that I was a good guy until they could prove otherwise? All that serves is to put them, and others on scene, at potentially unnecessary increased risk.
Johnny Law, you hit the nail on the head. For any person on this website to think that the police were in any way out of order is denying the reality of the situation and they are, frankly, being delusional. Were I the police, I would have acted the same way if I came to the scene with the exact information they had been given. They didn't know me from Adam, so why should they take my word that I was a good guy until they could prove otherwise? All that serves is to put them, and others on scene, at potentially unnecessary increased risk.
Batousaii
Regular Member
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TRAKATAK wrote:
Oh C'mon ...
-- Every one knows that Alliance players havegreen names over their heads, and the horde have red when PvP is turned on !.... WoW ...... it's common knowledge.
Seriously though, Both TRAK and Johny are correct in pointing out that everything is an "unknown" until police can identify who's who ... until then, it's just a chaotic situation.
- (years ago) I too helped pursue and stop an offender that had been throwingBudweiser beer cans from his car at another car on the freeway... (i was on my motorcycle, .45 on me) .. when we finally cornered the guy, and the cops caught up to us... they took my .45 for a few minutes.. getting it back came with a big thank you, a handshake, and compliment on weapon choice... I wasn't put on the ground, or handcuffed, because cops had been told who-was-who via 911 from other driver, but they secured my gun so i would not be out of their policy (as per a shoot) once they took control of the offender.
- So TRAK is correct in his expectation, and seems to have good comprehension of the other viewpoints around him.... well done.
- Well Done TRAK !
Bat
TRAKATAK wrote:
Oh C'mon ...
-- Every one knows that Alliance players havegreen names over their heads, and the horde have red when PvP is turned on !.... WoW ...... it's common knowledge.
Seriously though, Both TRAK and Johny are correct in pointing out that everything is an "unknown" until police can identify who's who ... until then, it's just a chaotic situation.
- (years ago) I too helped pursue and stop an offender that had been throwingBudweiser beer cans from his car at another car on the freeway... (i was on my motorcycle, .45 on me) .. when we finally cornered the guy, and the cops caught up to us... they took my .45 for a few minutes.. getting it back came with a big thank you, a handshake, and compliment on weapon choice... I wasn't put on the ground, or handcuffed, because cops had been told who-was-who via 911 from other driver, but they secured my gun so i would not be out of their policy (as per a shoot) once they took control of the offender.
- So TRAK is correct in his expectation, and seems to have good comprehension of the other viewpoints around him.... well done.
- Well Done TRAK !
Bat
Ajetpilot
Regular Member
imported post
I agree. Well done TRAKATAK.
However, the treatment that you received may be one reason why some people simply would rather not get involved. Who wants to get put on the ground at gunpoint, cuffed, locked in the back of a police car, and detained for an unknown period of time?
Many people would rather just call 911 and keep on motoring, or worse, not even bother to call 911. They would rather letsomeone else go through that procedure.
I'm glad it was you who came across the situation and decided to act.
BZ.
I agree. Well done TRAKATAK.
However, the treatment that you received may be one reason why some people simply would rather not get involved. Who wants to get put on the ground at gunpoint, cuffed, locked in the back of a police car, and detained for an unknown period of time?
Many people would rather just call 911 and keep on motoring, or worse, not even bother to call 911. They would rather letsomeone else go through that procedure.
I'm glad it was you who came across the situation and decided to act.
BZ.
Jeff Hayes
Regular Member
imported post
I stopped to help aLEO that was getting the crap beat out of him about 12 years ago. I jumped in to the fight got the BG off of him just about the same time help arrived. I got jumped on cuffed and bent over the trunk of a patrol car. TheLEO I rescued was telling the other LEOs that I had helped himand to turn me loose. I got jacked in the right kidney 2x before the LEO uncuffed me. I was OK with gettin cuffed untill they sorted things out but the LEO that punched me knew I was a good guy when he did me. I have not helped a LEO since. I was not armed that day.
Orphan
I stopped to help aLEO that was getting the crap beat out of him about 12 years ago. I jumped in to the fight got the BG off of him just about the same time help arrived. I got jumped on cuffed and bent over the trunk of a patrol car. TheLEO I rescued was telling the other LEOs that I had helped himand to turn me loose. I got jacked in the right kidney 2x before the LEO uncuffed me. I was OK with gettin cuffed untill they sorted things out but the LEO that punched me knew I was a good guy when he did me. I have not helped a LEO since. I was not armed that day.
Orphan
Ajetpilot
Regular Member
imported post
You made my point, Orphan. Thanks for the first person account.
You made my point, Orphan. Thanks for the first person account.
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First, good on you for getting involved.
Second, this is not a criticism because I wasn't in your shoes and don't know all the facts, but I would have made every effort, if at all possible,to ensure I DID NOT have a gun in my hands when police arrived.
First, good on you for getting involved.
Second, this is not a criticism because I wasn't in your shoes and don't know all the facts, but I would have made every effort, if at all possible,to ensure I DID NOT have a gun in my hands when police arrived.
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
imported post
Johnny Law wrote:
Except they didn't just disarm everybody. You missed the point entirely.
Its one thing to get the guns out of the way. Its something else to be face down in a puddle in 40-degree weather, cuffed, and stuffed in a patrol car for thirty minutes.
Refusal to use judgement. Apparently, the thought that there are armed good guys who have interrupted crimes beforenever entered their head until after the humiliating treatment.
If they just must get the potential for weapons out of the way, they can do a Terry pat down.
Give me a break.
Johnny Law wrote:
Except they didn't just disarm everybody. You missed the point entirely.
Its one thing to get the guns out of the way. Its something else to be face down in a puddle in 40-degree weather, cuffed, and stuffed in a patrol car for thirty minutes.
Refusal to use judgement. Apparently, the thought that there are armed good guys who have interrupted crimes beforenever entered their head until after the humiliating treatment.
If they just must get the potential for weapons out of the way, they can do a Terry pat down.
Give me a break.