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  1. #1
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    ShaunKranish from ICarry.org, ,
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    I posted this on our forums and felt the need to post it here as well:

    http://www.icarry.org/ftopict-1921.html

    I've been thinking about this a lot recently, and then I started reading a book that has confirmed what I've been thinking.

    This isn't going to be a very fun topic, but it will be necessary for us to cover if we are to "grow" as a community - meaning the gun owners in Illinois and Wisconsin, and the rest of this country. We need to take responsibility for the situation with the gun laws. We are responsible in many ways.

    If we only look to external factors like blaming the politicians, blaming the media, blaming George Soros and the people who fund gun-banning, we will not make much if any progress.

    The bad news:

    We need to take responsibility for letting things get out of hand with laws regarding self-defense, gun ownership, and everything else. These laws were passed right in front of us, and we didn't take the time and energy to stop or prevent it. We were too busy with our lives, and it crept up on us slowly, little-by-little, until one day we all woke up and said "OK, enough is enough...this is out of hand." We are reaping what we have sown. By not keeping on the little things when they popped up here and there, they've now all piled up and have made it very hard for us to defend ourselves, our families, and our freedoms.

    THE GOOD NEWS:

    The good news is that by accepting responsibility for what has happened, and acknowledging that we are the only ones to blame for it (all that's necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing...) now we can actually change it. You can't snap your fingers and get politicians out of office. But by changing our perspective from that of VICTIMS to that of responsible citizens who decide our own future and take responsibility for what we LET other people do to us (and stop LETTING them do it!), we can instantly change the way we look at the problem and therefore the way we look to the solution.

    Our solutions should come first from inside. I'm not talking trendy pop psychology or quick-fix personality changes. I'm talking deeply considering from a principles and character standpoint who we are and why we're in this situation. This type of thinking isn't popular because it forces us to take responsibility instead of blaming external forces all the time, and forces us to change what we do not simply by using this "technique" or that "technique" but by looking at things different and looking at ourselves different in a long-term point of view.

    This may seem pretty deep for gun rights, but can you disagree that it is us who have let things get this way? I know what we're up against, believe me, but even then I know that if 1% of gun owners got active we'd have Vermont-style carry in a year.

    Are you ready to take responsibility and change the way you look at the problem? Knowing that we're all to blame, can we step up to the plate together and fix it? I think we can.

    Albert Einstein wrote:
    The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them.

    I think this is a liberating realization really. The more this realization sinks in, the more we can break the habits of bad-talking the politicians, the media, the Daleys and Doyles and Bradys and Bloombergs, and man-up to the fact that it's us, it always has been, and it always will be. The Founding Fathers of this country knew it, and they did something about it. Now is our time.

    Let's encourage one another to get involved, do whatever you can, stop complaining and whining and break the habit of identifying with ourselves as victims, and start identifying ourselves as the ones who can change it.

  2. #2
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    but even then I know that if 1% of gun owners got active we'd have Vermont-style carry in a year.
    Would be nice if it was true, and it actually has a chance in WI, being as the state constitution is on your side there. But not going to happen in Illinois unless the federal courts force it, and they generally do everything they can to avoid forcing states to do anything at all.

    In IL there are something like a million FOID cardholders. 1% is 10,000. There were by some accounts 5000 people that marched on Springfield last year. No practical effect.

    I think a few hundred dedicated volunteers can do a lot, but VT style carry in a year is not one of the things that can be accomplished in that time frame.

    We can't even get preemption passed in this state.

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    I don't think there is much question that 5000 people went to Springfield this year for IGOLD (Illinois Gun Owners Lobby Day). I was there, they said that they had 5000 info packets to give out and they ran out and late comers didn't get any. The media for the most part won't admit the numbers are that high and they gave very little coverage, especially in Chicago. The event didn't fit their agenda. Better to write a big story on Father "Snuffy" Pfleger protesting at a gun shop with 12 protesters near Chicago.

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    ShaunKranish from ICarry.org, ,
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    I think that's just because we don't have enough people active. We certainly don't have 10,000 people actively doing things on a weekly basis. Going to Springfield or Chicago once a year is fantastic, but much more needs to be done.

    Container-carrying (fannypack-carry), recruiting more people, distributing information, getting people linked-up online, writing to the papers, talking with police departments, pushing things along.

    IGOLD is great and I'm behind it 100% Hopefully we can help get 10,000 people or 20,000 people there next year. But I want people doing things on other days too, and in particular I want leaders to step forward and help make grassroots activism a reality.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    ilbob wrote:
    but even then I know that if 1% of gun owners got active we'd have Vermont-style carry in a year.
    Would be nice if it was true, and it actually has a chance in WI, being as the state constitution is on your side there. But not going to happen in Illinois unless the federal courts force it, and they generally do everything they can to avoid forcing states to do anything at all.

    In IL there are something like a million FOID cardholders. 1% is 10,000. There were by some accounts 5000 people that marched on Springfield last year. No practical effect.

    I think a few hundred dedicated volunteers can do a lot, but VT style carry in a year is not one of the things that can be accomplished in that time frame.

    We can't even get preemption passed in this state.
    Why do you have such a negative outlook on things? I think it is very possible to do, it is just a matter of how much work do you want to put into this?
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    protias wrote:
    Why do you have such a negative outlook on things? I think it is very possible to do, it is just a matter of how much work do you want to put into this?
    There are things that are doable and there are things that are not doable. Getting VT style carry in IL within a year falls into the latter. Maybe 20 years, but you have an awful lot of people to educate if you ever want to get there.

    Getting CC in the next 3-5 years is doable, and I will work with the people who are going to help make that happen(like the NRA and ISRA and Illinoiscarry).My timeis too valuable to waste iton fighting windmills.

    I wil also spend my time training others in safe shooting and helping run safe shooting events. There is only so much any one person can give to the cause, and I have chosen to give the bulk of the time I am donating to those areas.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Setting your goals high is a noble thing and I would say nothing to discourage it.

    Most important is to recognize the lay of the land and strive to make some progress, even if it is done incrementally. To reach too high, too far becomes an all or nothing attitude - frequently resulting in nothing.

    Continued good luck with your efforts.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Setting your goals high is a noble thing and I would say nothing to discourage it.

    Most important is to recognize the lay of the land and strive to make some progress, even if it is done incrementally. To reach too high, too far becomes an all or nothing attitude - frequently resulting in nothing.

    Continued good luck with your efforts.

    Yata hey
    Again, another gem of knowledge phrased as only Mr. Grapeshot can. If you ever come to Texas or I'm in Virginia, lunch is on me.



    -Gruu

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    Forget 5,000 or 10,000, try 10 truly serious activists showing up at a politician's house, without an appointment.
    You may be surprised how effective that can be.
    What would they be doing when thery get there?

  10. #10
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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    Making it abundantly clear the continued violations of the 2nd amendment is not appreciated and must be rectified. Be creative.
    Are you suggesting they go there and picket?

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    In an interview with candidates for IL Governor, two gun questions were asked:

    http://www.kwqc.com/Global/story.asp?S=11666917

    Some wonderful gems came out from some of these morons.

    "Would you sign or veto legislation banning the sale and possession of semiautomatic assault-style weapons in Illinois?"

    Bob Schillerstrom: "I would sign constitutionally sound legislation banning assault weapons in Illinois." Which part of "shall not be infringed" is confusing?

    Andy McKenna: "I believe in the Second Amendment and law abiding citizen's right to own firearms to protect their families and for sporting purposes. OK, great! (read this guy's quote below)

    "Would you sign or veto legislation allowing concealed-carry for handguns?"

    Andy McKenna: "I am opposed to concealed-carry legislation." Oh....I thought you just said...oh never mind, just another two-faced lying politician.

    Bob Schillerstrom: "I would veto legislation allowing concealed carry for handguns. I am a supporter of the Second Amendment; however, I do not believe that concealed carry is a solution for reducing crime in the State of Illinois." That's funny, you are a "supporter" of a right that you are opposed to people actually exercising.

    Rich Whitney: "I would sign legislation allowing concealed-carry or open carry - although ... I would prefer that any such legislation allow individual counties to opt out if they so chose." Sounded good until he opened his mouth. What's the point of creating a statewide system if counties can opt out? There are 102 counties in Illinois. Keeping track of all those counties and what new laws they may pass at any given time seems like a difficult task for the average guy.

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    If you want to get legalized carry in Illinois (OC or CC) you need to get Cook County declared as a separate state, so that the millions of liberals living there will no longer have such strong influence on Springfield.

    Big Gay Al
    Coordinator, Michigan Pink Pistols
    Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
    Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal FNX-45 .45ACP 16 rounds of hurt.

  13. #13
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Big Gay Al wrote:
    If you want to get legalized carry in Illinois (OC or CC) you need to get Cook County declared as a separate state, so that the millions of liberals living there will no longer have such strong influence on Springfield.
    Have you no faith in SCOTUS Al? Could/should change a lot of things.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. ~Les Brown

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    OC will probably be a hard sell but I think people are waking up in IL, at least in the southern half of the state. A business owner friend in southern IL has been working with other businessmen organizing FL carry classes for IL citizens. Many people I know in IL who just a few years ago were somewhat anti carry in general and even some who sort of freaked when I started to carry 4 years ago now own sidearms and await receipt of their FL permits. Most of these people are pillars of the community, over 40, affluent having the means and willingness to financially support politicians who support their rights and the social networks to influence others.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Big Gay Al wrote:
    If you want to get legalized carry in Illinois (OC or CC) you need to get Cook County declared as a separate state, so that the millions of liberals living there will no longer have such strong influence on Springfield.
    Have you no faith in SCOTUS Al? Could/should change a lot of things.

    Yata hey
    No. Even in the Heller vs. DC case, they didn't totally side with us on the 2A, stating there could be reasonable limits. One man's reason, is another man's insanity.
    Big Gay Al
    Coordinator, Michigan Pink Pistols
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    Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal FNX-45 .45ACP 16 rounds of hurt.

  17. #17
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    cscitney87 wrote:
    Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. ~Les Brown
    We look for obtainable goals. An all or nothing approach may well get you nothing. The general public and the courts are similar in that they are made up of people with opinions.

    It is always wise to be careful for what you ask and cognizant of who the audience is.
    Choose your battles wisely.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  18. #18
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Big Gay Al wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    Big Gay Al wrote:
    If you want to get legalized carry in Illinois (OC or CC) you need to get Cook County declared as a separate state, so that the millions of liberals living there will no longer have such strong influence on Springfield.
    Have you no faith in SCOTUS Al? Could/should change a lot of things.

    Yata hey
    No. Even in the Heller vs. DC case, they didn't totally side with us on the 2A, stating there could be reasonable limits. One man's reason, is another man's insanity.
    Understood and agreed.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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