Results 1 to 25 of 25

Thread: can i open carry with a leg holster

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    San Mateo,California, ,
    Posts
    14

    Post imported post

    i have a special ops tactacal leg holster, can i carry with that. and can my magazine be attached to it.

  2. #2
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,748

    Post imported post

    The law specifically says that handguns worn in a belt holster are not considered to be concealed. So does your leg holster qualify? I'm not sure.

    I know some people on this forum have carried in a leg holster and haven't been bothered about it. I asked about this once and got the response that a leg holster which was attached to a belt could be considered a belt holster in a roundabout way. I thought that was a pretty good explanation, you can come to your own conclusions.

  3. #3
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bad_ace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Cupertino, California, USA
    Posts
    328

    Post imported post

    Some carry that way to be sure no one can claim their shirt covered the gun.
    To be safe I'd carry ammo separate from that holster. I don't like the "attached in any manner" language in PC 12031 (g)

    Welcome to the forums, how did you find OCDO?

  4. #4
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Stanislaus County, California, USA
    Posts
    2,586

    Post imported post

    bad_ace wrote:
    ...I don't like the "attached in any manner" language in PC 12031 (g)...
    The court has already ruled that the legislature intended only to prohibit attaching the full magazine/clip "in a firing position", and this "any manner" language was designed to cover "unconventional" means of loading a firearm.

    Refer to People v Clark (1996).

    Since this is "well-settled" law, any cop, DA, or judge involved with prosecuting someone contrary to this law would be wide open to civil liability for any damages they cause. And these types of suits are brought in FEDERAL court, so they can't rely on the buddy system to bail them out.
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
    Supporter of the CalGuns Foundation - http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/
    Supporter of the Madison Society - www.madison-society.org


    Don't Tread On Me.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    642

    Post imported post

    From bigtoe:
    The law specifically says that handguns worn in a belt holster are not considered to be concealed. So does your leg holster qualify? I'm not sure.

    IMO this means that an example of an unconcealed firearm is a firearm in a belt holster. The law doesn't say that inorder to be considered unconcealed a firearm must be in a belt holster.

    As far as having a mag in the same holster; 1) if your loaded magazine is attached to the firearm, you are breaking a law. When holstered, if you draw your firearm, does a loaded magazine come with it? If not, I think you are safe. 2) it nice to carry in a drop leg to prevent chances of covering your gun with a shirt, but having the gun and mag down there makes loading really awkward, I almost had to load while wearing a drop leg and thought it was pretty scarry.
    When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

  6. #6
    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Orange County, California, USA
    Posts
    912

    Post imported post

    I OC with a drop (leg) holster. It does prevent the "well, your shirt is concealing part of the firearm..." argument a capricious leo may try to say. DO keep your mags separate. I bought a mag holster just for that reason.
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Escondido, California, USA
    Posts
    1,140

    Post imported post

    What part of "open" and "carry" do you guys NOT understand?

    Can you see your iron from three sides? By golly, I am 99.9% sure that it is OPENLY CARRIED then!

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    San Mateo,California, ,
    Posts
    14

    Post imported post

    thank you so much for the info, i think i will carry the mag on opposite side on my belt. i found this site watching channel 2 news last week, and couldnt believe my eyes, i was so happy, i read alot of info on this site before i o.c. the first time .i o.con friday,it was great i walked into the ups store a few people looked at me, but no one freaked out. thanks for all the info i read here. I would like to meet some of the people here and discuss all these issues, please notify me of any kind of meetings i already have about 10 people that are very interested.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Vista, California, USA
    Posts
    516

    Post imported post

    You might want avoid shorts and an ankle holster.

  10. #10
    Regular Member wewd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    664

    Post imported post

    Drop-leg holsters are still belt holsters, as they are suspended from the belt. But it doesn't really matter how you carry as long as the weapon is openly visible. The belt holster language in 12025 is given as an example of what is legal, it is not the only legal method.
    Do you want to enjoy liberty in your lifetime?

    Consider moving to New Hampshire as part of the Free State Project.

    "Live Free or Die"

  11. #11
    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Orange County, California, USA
    Posts
    912

    Post imported post

    I agree. Last thing you wanna hear a leo tell you is to "bend over and unholster".

    yelohamr wrote:
    You might want avoid shorts and an ankle holster.
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

  12. #12
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,748

    Post imported post

    dirtykoala wrote:
    As far as having a mag in the same holster; 1) if your loaded magazine is attached to the firearm, you are breaking a law.
    I'm not sure this is true. See this for more discussion: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...ght=sidesaddle

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    642

    Post imported post

    bigtoe416 wrote:
    dirtykoala wrote:
    As far as having a mag in the same holster; 1) if your loaded magazine is attached to the firearm, you are breaking a law.
    I'm not sure this is true. See this for more discussion: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...ght=sidesaddle
    sorry, i meant attached as in inside the magwell. typing first thing in the morning on my iphone is probably not one of my strong points.

    some feel that if your gun and ammo are heldin the same holster, its considered attached and loaded. my thoughts are, if you pull your gun out of your holster and no ammo comes with it, you are safe.
    When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Rosamond, California, USA
    Posts
    1,865

    Post imported post

    dirtykoala wrote:
    bigtoe416 wrote:
    dirtykoala wrote:
    As far as having a mag in the same holster; 1) if your loaded magazine is attached to the firearm, you are breaking a law.
    I'm not sure this is true. See this for more discussion: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...ght=sidesaddle
    sorry, i meant attached as in inside the magwell. typing first thing in the morning on my iphone is probably not one of my strong points.

    some feel that if your gun and ammo are heldin the same holster, its considered attached and loaded. my thoughts are, if you pull your gun out of your holster and no ammo comes with it, you are safe.
    The basic rule of thumb is this: If you can, by simply mechanically manipulating the firearm itself, put a round into a position from which it can be fired, then the gun is loaded.

    No matter how many times you rack the slide,rounds in a magazine that is duct taped to the side of the gun WILL NOT magically be in a position from which they can be fired, so the gun is NOT LOADED. Only if the magazine full of rounds is actually INSIDE the magazine well can you rack the slide and get a round in position to fire would it be considered "loaded".

    Read the "IS IT LOADED?" Pamphlet.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/11495-1.html


  15. #15
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Stanislaus County, California, USA
    Posts
    2,586

    Post imported post

    dirtykoala wrote:
    ...

    some feel that if your gun and ammo are heldin the same holster, its considered attached and loaded. my thoughts are, if you pull your gun out of your holster and no ammo comes with it, you are safe.
    There is no need to "feel" one way or another on this topic. People v Clark clearly settles any ambiguity of the definition of "loaded" as it applies to 12031.

    (Clark was found in possession of a shotgun with shells stored in the butt stock compartment. Though these rounds were clearly "in or attached" to the firearm, the court found that the legislature intended to ban nothing more than "loading" in the traditional sense. It's actually very good case law; well worth the read.)
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
    Supporter of the CalGuns Foundation - http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/
    Supporter of the Madison Society - www.madison-society.org


    Don't Tread On Me.

  16. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Sunnyvale, California, USA
    Posts
    171

    Post imported post

    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    bad_ace wrote:
    ...I don't like the "attached in any manner" language in PC 12031 (g)...
    The court has already ruled that the legislature intended only to prohibit attaching the full magazine/clip "in a firing position", and this "any manner" language was designed to cover "unconventional" means of loading a firearm.

    Refer to People v Clark (1996).

    Since this is "well-settled" law, any cop, DA, or judge involved with prosecuting someone contrary to this law would be wide open to civil liability for any damages they cause. And these types of suits are brought in FEDERAL court, so they can't rely on the buddy system to bail them out.
    I think "attached" means attached to the firearm, as in the magazine well, or inserted in the cylinder of a wheel gun.

    Not attached? Speed loaders in separate pouches, clips in similarly designed separate sleeves. There's no confusion here.

  17. #17
    Newbie cato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    2,335

    Post imported post

    As the court said -ammo must be attached in a manner from which it can be fired.

    Now if anyone remembers the "Marine arrested on the 4th of July 2008", he had a holster which incorporated an attachedmagazine pouch. The arresting officers/deputies (can't remember which), in their ignorance of case law, took an expansive reading of 12031's "attached in any manner" and considered the firearm loaded, though it wasn't, and made an arrest. No charges were filed by the County DA.

    The "anti UOC"Calguns Foundation backed his defense.


    Oh man!, arresting a Marineon the 4th of July for peacefully carrying his brithright! Shame on them!


  18. #18
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bad_ace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Cupertino, California, USA
    Posts
    328

    Post imported post

    cato wrote:
    The "anti UOC"¬*Calguns Foundation backed his defense.
    +1 Nice. Good use of quotation marks

  19. #19
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bad_ace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Cupertino, California, USA
    Posts
    328

    Post imported post

    cato wrote:
    Now if anyone remembers the "Marine arrested on the 4th of July 2008", he had a holster which incorporated an attached¬*magazine pouch.¬* The arresting officers/deputies (can't remember which), in their ignorance of case law, took an expansive reading of 12031's "attached in any manner" and considered the firearm loaded, though it wasn't, and made an arrest.¬* No charges were filed by the County DA.
    This was my original point. Though legal, at this point it needs to be considered in your risk assessment. "Do I have the time to be falsely arrested today after a deputy/officer reads the law literally"?

    Legalese, where up can be down and attached can be "loaded"

  20. #20
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Stanislaus County, California, USA
    Posts
    2,586

    Post imported post

    cato wrote:
    ...No charges were filed by the County DA...
    ...but, the City Attorney threatened to file under a city ordinance, and held charges over the Marine's head for a year (until the statute of limitations expired)...

    ...also, IIRC, it took over a year for his firearm to be returned to him...
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
    Supporter of the CalGuns Foundation - http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/
    Supporter of the Madison Society - www.madison-society.org


    Don't Tread On Me.

  21. #21
    Newbie cato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    2,335

    Post imported post

    bad_ace wrote:
    cato wrote:
    The "anti UOC"Calguns Foundation backed his defense.
    +1 Nice. Good use of quotation marks

    It was this and about three other early UOC cases which showed them that defending UOC at this time was a use of resources that would not result in a positive change in any laws (just treading water). This realization was the beginning of don't UOC right know because of ...

    I know, at least from personal conversations with board members, that they very much want a an expansive 2nd A. Right for both concealed and open carry including taking on restrictions on the types of protected weapons, mag capacity, 30 day one hand guna month, 10 day DOJ waiting period etc...

    And the men behind the CGF/SAF curtains are some the best constitutional lawyers in the country. So when they recommend for the sake of getting an expansive Right to stand down on a very public issue to avoid potential Right delaying setbacksI have to give it very serious thought.


    Back on topic, leg holsters!

    Art Work by Oleg Volk:

  22. #22
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Sons of Liberty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Riverside, California, USA
    Posts
    638

    Post imported post

    cato wrote:
    And the men behind the CGF/SAF curtains are some the best constitutional lawyers in the country. So when they recommend for the sake of getting an expansive Right to stand down on a very public issue to avoid potential Right delaying setbacksI have to give it very serious thought.
    Have the men behind the CGF/SAF ever supported UOC/OC? I have been monitoring the board for over a year (although just registered this year) and I have yet to see CGF/SAF openly support UOC/OC events and initiative.

    I think the reason is that CGF does not engage in the UOC/OC activist route. They prefer the court route. I'm not saying one is better than the other. I'm saying you need both going on at the same time. Where would be civil rights movement be without both? Demonstrations are a way to make known wrongs that need to be made right.

    And not to hijack the thread but... the inner thigh under the skirt/kilt holster arrangement is concealed and, without a permit, would get you in trouble if discovered in public.
    Clinging to God & Guns: The Constitution Restoration Project

  23. #23
    Newbie cato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    2,335

    Post imported post

    Heller happened without any activism. Ohio's Supreme Court OC (actually was a CCW) case happened without any activism. Not saying activism is bad but until we as a political minority have constitutional protection and a way to enforce it (civil suits funded by someone) it not likely to do much more then reinforce the law as it is (witness the UOC memos).

  24. #24
    Newbie cato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    2,335

    Post imported post

    Sons of Liberty wrote:
    cato wrote:
    And the men behind the CGF/SAF curtains are some the best constitutional lawyers in the country. So when they recommend for the sake of getting an expansive Right to stand down on a very public issue to avoid potential Right delaying setbacksI have to give it very serious thought.
    Have the men behind the CGF/SAF ever supported UOC/OC?

    At least two Marines (one was reserve) and a gentleman in Santa Monica were arrested in '07/'08 for UOC.The CGF "right people" (of the early formation of the now board run corporation) covered their legal fees (not sure who paid exactly - could have just been private individuals - there was no LDF set up)and all were non-proc cases (no charges filed by DAs).

    Like I've said, these experiences and a few others that cropped up showed that pushing UOC and the cost ofpossible criminal cases (proven by Theseus' bill at $35-40,000 for a loss at trial court) was not a wise investment of time/money for the return (treading water legally) when time/money was needed for offensive legal action (more likely to give a return on investment).

    Gene has supported LOC where legal and I believe they'd seriously consider an LOC defense where there are no other "colorful" issues (where LOC was clearly lawful). (I don't speak for them I'm just a supporter who shares their vision).

    The other board membersI've spoken to would love to LOC or at least have it be legal so if their CCW became exposed there would be no issues.

    Nobody I've meet with CGF or their legal teamis hostile to OC. There is however debate,the substance of which I've tried to represent here, as to the best deployment (time and place)of OC/UOC to accomplish ourexpansive RKBAgoals.



    and back on topic :P:

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Vista, California, USA
    Posts
    516

    Post imported post

    The only holster I own, that I didn't make, is a drop-leg. It has a magazine pouch on it but I use it to hold a mini-maglite.



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •