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can i open carry with a leg holster

bigtoe416

bigtoe416

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The law specifically says that handguns worn in a belt holster are not considered to be concealed. So does your leg holster qualify? I'm not sure.

I know some people on this forum have carried in a leg holster and haven't been bothered about it. I asked about this once and got the response that a leg holster which was attached to a belt could be considered a belt holster in a roundabout way. I thought that was a pretty good explanation, you can come to your own conclusions.
 
bad_ace

bad_ace

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Some carry that way to be sure no one can claim their shirt covered the gun.
To be safe I'd carry ammo separate from that holster. I don't like the "attached in any manner" language in PC 12031 (g)

Welcome to the forums, how did you find OCDO?
 
C

CA_Libertarian

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bad_ace wrote:
...I don't like the "attached in any manner" language in PC 12031 (g)...
Click to expand...
The court has already ruled that the legislature intended only to prohibit attaching the full magazine/clip "in a firing position", and this "any manner" language was designed to cover "unconventional" means of loading a firearm.

Refer to People v Clark (1996).

Since this is "well-settled" law, any cop, DA, or judge involved with prosecuting someone contrary to this law would be wide open to civil liability for any damages they cause. And these types of suits are brought in FEDERAL court, so they can't rely on the buddy system to bail them out.
 
D

dirtykoala

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From bigtoe:
The law specifically says that handguns worn in a belt holster are not considered to be concealed. So does your leg holster qualify? I'm not sure.

IMO this means that an example of an unconcealed firearm is a firearm in a belt holster. The law doesn't say that inorder to be considered unconcealed a firearm must be in a belt holster.

As far as having a mag in the same holster; 1) if your loaded magazine is attached to the firearm, you are breaking a law. When holstered, if you draw your firearm, does a loaded magazine come with it? If not, I think you are safe. 2) it nice to carry in a drop leg to prevent chances of covering your gun with a shirt, but having the gun and mag down there makes loading really awkward, I almost had to load while wearing a drop leg and thought it was pretty scarry.
 
demnogis

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I OC with a drop (leg) holster. It does prevent the "well, your shirt is concealing part of the firearm..." argument a capricious leo may try to say. DO keep your mags separate. I bought a mag holster just for that reason.
 
E

expresstowal

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thank you so much for the info, i think i will carry the mag on opposite side on my belt. i found this site watching channel 2 news last week, and couldnt believe my eyes, i was so happy, i read alot of info on this site before i o.c. the first time .i o.con friday,it was great i walked into the ups store a few people looked at me, but no one freaked out. thanks for all the info i read here. I would like to meet some of the people here and discuss all these issues, please notify me of any kind of meetings i already have about 10 people that are very interested.
 
wewd

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Drop-leg holsters are still belt holsters, as they are suspended from the belt. But it doesn't really matter how you carry as long as the weapon is openly visible. The belt holster language in 12025 is given as an example of what is legal, it is not the only legal method.
 
D

dirtykoala

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bigtoe416 wrote:
dirtykoala wrote:
As far as having a mag in the same holster; 1) if your loaded magazine is attached to the firearm, you are breaking a law.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure this is true. See this for more discussion: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=24635&forum_id=12&highlight=sidesaddle
Click to expand...

sorry, i meant attached as in inside the magwell. typing first thing in the morning on my iphone is probably not one of my strong points.

some feel that if your gun and ammo are heldin the same holster, its considered attached and loaded. my thoughts are, if you pull your gun out of your holster and no ammo comes with it, you are safe.
 
Decoligny

Decoligny

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dirtykoala wrote:
bigtoe416 wrote:
dirtykoala wrote:
As far as having a mag in the same holster; 1) if your loaded magazine is attached to the firearm, you are breaking a law.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure this is true. See this for more discussion: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=24635&forum_id=12&highlight=sidesaddle
Click to expand...

sorry, i meant attached as in inside the magwell. typing first thing in the morning on my iphone is probably not one of my strong points.

some feel that if your gun and ammo are heldin the same holster, its considered attached and loaded. my thoughts are, if you pull your gun out of your holster and no ammo comes with it, you are safe.
Click to expand...
The basic rule of thumb is this: If you can, by simply mechanically manipulating the firearm itself, put a round into a position from which it can be fired, then the gun is loaded.

No matter how many times you rack the slide,rounds in a magazine that is duct taped to the side of the gun WILL NOT magically be in a position from which they can be fired, so the gun is NOT LOADED. Only if the magazine full of rounds is actually INSIDE the magazine well can you rack the slide and get a round in position to fire would it be considered "loaded".

Read the "IS IT LOADED?" Pamphlet.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/11495-1.html
 
C

CA_Libertarian

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dirtykoala wrote:
...

some feel that if your gun and ammo are heldin the same holster, its considered attached and loaded. my thoughts are, if you pull your gun out of your holster and no ammo comes with it, you are safe.
Click to expand...
There is no need to "feel" one way or another on this topic. People v Clark clearly settles any ambiguity of the definition of "loaded" as it applies to 12031.

(Clark was found in possession of a shotgun with shells stored in the butt stock compartment. Though these rounds were clearly "in or attached" to the firearm, the court found that the legislature intended to ban nothing more than "loading" in the traditional sense. It's actually very good case law; well worth the read.)
 
B

Bull Frog

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CA_Libertarian wrote:
bad_ace wrote:
...I don't like the "attached in any manner" language in PC 12031 (g)...
Click to expand...
The court has already ruled that the legislature intended only to prohibit attaching the full magazine/clip "in a firing position", and this "any manner" language was designed to cover "unconventional" means of loading a firearm.

Refer to People v Clark (1996).

Since this is "well-settled" law, any cop, DA, or judge involved with prosecuting someone contrary to this law would be wide open to civil liability for any damages they cause. And these types of suits are brought in FEDERAL court, so they can't rely on the buddy system to bail them out.
Click to expand...

I think "attached" means attached to the firearm, as in the magazine well, or inserted in the cylinder of a wheel gun.

Not attached? Speed loaders in separate pouches, clips in similarly designed separate sleeves. There's no confusion here.
 
cato

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As the court said -ammo must be attached in a manner from which it can be fired.

Now if anyone remembers the "Marine arrested on the 4th of July 2008", he had a holster which incorporated an attachedmagazine pouch. The arresting officers/deputies (can't remember which), in their ignorance of case law, took an expansive reading of 12031's "attached in any manner" and considered the firearm loaded, though it wasn't, and made an arrest. No charges were filed by the County DA.

The "anti UOC"Calguns Foundation backed his defense.


Oh man!, arresting a Marineon the 4th of July for peacefully carrying his brithright! Shame on them!
 
bad_ace

bad_ace

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cato wrote:
Now if anyone remembers the "Marine arrested on the 4th of July 2008", he had a holster which incorporated an attached magazine pouch.  The arresting officers/deputies (can't remember which), in their ignorance of case law, took an expansive reading of 12031's "attached in any manner" and considered the firearm loaded, though it wasn't, and made an arrest.  No charges were filed by the County DA.
Click to expand...

This was my original point. Though legal, at this point it needs to be considered in your risk assessment. "Do I have the time to be falsely arrested today after a deputy/officer reads the law literally"?

Legalese, where up can be down and attached can be "loaded"
 
C

CA_Libertarian

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cato wrote:
...No charges were filed by the County DA...
Click to expand...
...but, the City Attorney threatened to file under a city ordinance, and held charges over the Marine's head for a year (until the statute of limitations expired)...

...also, IIRC, it took over a year for his firearm to be returned to him...
 
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