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Thread: ASU Student Shot "Accidentally"

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    So this kid, an Appalachian State University student, in Boone NC got shot and killed this weekend. It was last reported as an accident and apparently occured at an apartment where a gathering or small party was taking place. I wonder how this will come out. It occured in an apartment complex (Appalachian South Apartments) on Faculty Street. I don't know if this area is on campus owned property or not but it is not very far from the campus.

    This and similar situations could hurt campus pro-OC/CC efforts.



    http://www.digtriad.com/news/local/s...0&catid=57



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    Heard it was a rifle. Probably a hunting rifle, since they mentioned it was not an "assault rifle". Can't get the link to the video off the site. It was just on WBTV at noon.

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    From my area, and attended the same university. I have a feeling alcohol/negligence was to blame, but can only speculate and would rather not do so without the facts. My prayers go out to both families.

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    Even though it may not have involved a handgun, many anti-gun advocates would argue this is an issue no matter what type of gun is in someone's possession.

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    He is now being charge, I thought this might happen, involuntary manslaughter. This isgoing to tear friends, family, and a small community apart.The riflewas a .50 cal muzzleloader, and he shot him in the face from 5-10 feet according the article. Probably half of that campus is mourning right now, it is such a close nit school i'm sure everyone knows someone affected by this.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34114764


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    Am I reading that correctly? He bought the gun second hand and did not know it was loaded? That makes it sound like he bought the gun loaded and never confirmed it was loaded/unloaded. Heck, unloaded it could have hurt somebody with the cap. At least if it was close enough to your face/eyes. Too many things went wrong there to even think about.

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    chiefjason wrote:
    Am I reading that correctly? He bought the gun second hand and did not know it was loaded? That makes it sound like he bought the gun loaded and never confirmed it was loaded/unloaded. Heck, unloaded it could have hurt somebody with the cap. At least if it was close enough to your face/eyes. Too many things went wrong there to even think about.
    You're not kidding. I can't even comprehend it, imagine what the families must feel like. Every rule of firearms safety was broken, please parents... I know there are a few of you guys on here, teach your kids safety. I still have a feeling alcohol was involved... either way it's horrible.

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    Now, correct me if I am wrong, a .50 cal muzzle loader is essentially a black powder rifle. I do believe you can purchase those without any permits, background checks, and even have it shipped right to your home. With that said, is it common to buy a loaded .50 cal muzzle loader? Well, certainly not common but it can happen.

    The guy says he didn't know it was loaded, if that is true, I'd like to meet the person that sold it, they should be overly ashamed of themselves and they may even face civil liability for this kid's death. As for the charge, well, just like us responsible gun owners, we are always told in our classes that we are fully responsible when our guns go off. The firearms laws in NC that define when you can and can not shoot are there to give you the chance of not being convicted of a crime if you do fire your gun. In this case, some pointed a loaded gun (whether they knew it or not), pulled the trigger, someone died, period. It truly sucks that someone had to die, accidentally, but the person that pulled the trigger should have known better. I have heard of other cases such as one not too long ago where a soldier was showing his wife how to use a gun. I think he was about to be deployed, well, she accidentally shot him. I don't think she was charged and that is the prerogative of the LEA involved and the district attorney's office.

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    "Never point a gun at anything you don't intend to kill (shoot)"

    It's such a simple rule, yet one that so many overlook.



    * and who the hell sells a loaded muzzleloader to someone?

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    tekshogun wrote:
    With that said, is it common to buy a loaded .50 cal muzzle loader? Well, certainly not common but it can happen.
    Black powder, particularly loose powder in a standard blued barrel is highly corrosive. I had to replace one because I got lazy and did not clean it after shooting it. It will rust in a day or so. Leaving one loaded is a really bad idea. Which reminds me, now that the season is over I need to unload mine.

    Also keep in mind that Muzzleloaders have 2-3 safeties on some of them. Mine has a manual safety, then you have to cock the hammer, and you have to add the cap. That's 3 safeties I have to overcome to fire the thing. At the minimum you are talking about having to cock a hammer and cap one to fire it. Of course it seems that this guy intentionally cocked the hammer, capped it, and fired it at his best friend. I'm guessing a little alcohol was involved as well.

    When they ran the story I looked at both my girls and said, "Never point a gun at a person, ever!" Their not ready for the defense exception at 5 and 8.

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    State Researcher .40 Cal's Avatar
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    There are muzzle loaders that don't have caps and hammers, but the point is that there was a loaded firearm in a kid's face at a social gathering. Loaded or not, this displayed the fact that someone was irresponsible. How true is the part where the kid bought the rifle already loaded and never checked the rifle for function? I don't know, but I do know that if he never checked it, then he doesn't know anything about rifles or firearm safety. The right of the people to keep and bare arms shall not be infringed... unless they have no clue what they are doing with said arms.

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    .40 Cal wrote:
    There are muzzle loaders that don't have caps and hammers, but the point is that there was a loaded firearm in a kid's face at a social gathering. Loaded or not, this displayed the fact that someone was irresponsible. How true is the part where the kid bought the rifle already loaded and never checked the rifle for function? I don't know, but I do know that if he never checked it, then he doesn't know anything about rifles or firearm safety. The right of the people to keep and bare arms shall not be infringed... unless they have no clue what they are doing with said arms.
    Amen...

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    This is a prime example of why ALL children should be taught basic firearm safety just like anything else, but the ANTI-GUN LOBBY and noodle-spined politicians, school admins etc, refuse to allow it.

    Just learning about something is not the same as condoning or supporting it.

    How many kids/people need to die or get injured before this message gets through! If the gun grabbers spent half the time supporting education as they do on the evil gun shows, etc we would be there.

    When. Will. THEY. Ever. Learn? Ever?

    Prayers and condolences to those involved.

    Gary

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    chiefjason wrote:
    Am I reading that correctly? He bought the gun second hand and did not know it was loaded? That makes it sound like he bought the gun loaded and never confirmed it was loaded/unloaded. Heck, unloaded it could have hurt somebody with the cap. At least if it was close enough to your face/eyes. Too many things went wrong there to even think about.
    I didn't get all of that from the story. That sounds like a conclusion made by the reader vs something stated by the article. JMO

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    http://www.charlotteobserver.com/top...y/1072100.html

    It doesn't sound totally unfeasible, I think it was a reasonable deduction considering the facts(or what we know of them), he is entitled to his opinions as are you.

    This article states he bought the gun second hand, and it owned it legally.

    Edit: The app south apartments are within a minute walking distance to campus. Literally you can cut through a parking lot, cross a street and you are at app south. They are not a campus dorm.

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    No I agree that it's feasible and could be considered a reasonable deduction. I was just pointing out that the article did not say that.

    I have a broadcasting degree and took two journalism classes so I read the news differently than most.

    "Police say he applied a percussion cap to it, which provides the spark to the gunpowder, which then blows out the round.

    Police say Derby was 5 to 10 feet away when Ruble pointed the gun at his head and fired.

    The gunshot hit Derby in the face, killing him instantly.


    Ruble told officers that he brought the gun out to scare people at the party, but he did not know that it was loaded.

    Police say Ruble bought the gun second-hand and owned it legally.


    Investigators say Ruble is distraught about what happened and has been cooperating with police."



    In print news, you write in simple sentence structure and make statements. Notice these are five paragraphs. Starting a new paragraph means your starting a new thought.

    The writer was presenting the fact that he didn't know he gun was loaded as a separate statement from the gun being owned legally. The paragraphs just happened to be next to each other.

    So my point was only that the deducted that, maybe reasonably, and formed an opinion. After his opinion was formed others replied as if his opinion was fact.

    Take this "listening test" to see what I'm trying to get at:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc#t=1m50s

    you can go here for the answer after you listen to the story:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc#t=18m15s

    Regardless of if/why he thought it was unloaded, this was a horrible incident.

    BTW, I went to App too.
    '05 Grad...you?

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    Regular Member lonewolf2810's Avatar
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    Loaded or not the only thing you should know is you never point a gun LOADED or UNLOADED at anything you don't intend to kill or shoot.

    An innocent person was killed because of someone being STUPID. The person that sold the gun to this person should be held just as responsible as the one that fired it. That is just my opinion and that's the way I feel about it.

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    lonewolf2810 wrote:
    Loaded or not the only thing you should know is you never point a gun LOADED or UNLOADED at anything you don't intend to kill or shoot.

    An innocent person was killed because of someone being STUPID.
    Agreed! 1000%


    lonewolf2810 wrote:
    The person that sold the gun to this person should be held just as responsible as the one that fired it. That is just my opinion and that's the way I feel about it.
    I'm not challenging your right to an opinion so please don't take it that way, but why do you say that? Do you feel all sellers should be held responsible for what buyers do with a firearm?

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    No I am saying the sell here more than likely knew the firearm was loaded if that be the case. That's all I am saying, so if he knew he should be held just as responsible as anyone. Now that is if he knew it was loaded.

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    lonewolf2810 wrote:
    No I am saying the sell here more than likely knew the firearm was loaded if that be the case. That's all I am saying, so if he knew he should be held just as responsible as anyone. Now that is if he knew it was loaded.
    I got you. If that be the case I could maybe see some liability on the seller but I wouldn't go as far as the seller being just as responsible.

    After all the seller didn't bring it out to scare anyone, point it at anyone , nor pull the trigger.

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    jp49911 wrote:
    I didn't get all of that from the story. That sounds like a conclusion made by the reader vs something stated by the article. JMO
    [/quote]

    I was also asking a question. Seeing if anyone else saw it that way. Not to sound crazy, but I think the link has changed or the article in the link has changed. That, or I've read to many accounts of this. Either way when the cops mention that he bought it used, that it was legal, and he did not know it was loaded It sure lends itself to that conclusion. But how many times do we hear the "I did not know it was loaded" defense? It just seems really hard to forget about loading a Muzzleloader. From load to shoot is about 6 steps to make it go bang.

    And surprise, surprise alcohol was involved. Who loaded it is the least of this guys worries.

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    Jason, I'm glad you said you thought the article changed cause now I know I'm not crazy (I noticed the change too).

    I see your logic and it's sound. Like I said in my last post I read things a little different.

    "And surprise, surprise alcohol was involved. Who loaded it is the least of this guys worries."


    This is all I was able to find:
    "Drugs and/or alcohol use was indicated on the police report; however, this has not been confirmed by detectives."

    That's pretty vague and inconclusive. It could mean people told the police that Ruble was known to get drunk or they found marijuana in the apartment. It could mean a lot. Did you see anything else? I'm sure there are several articles.

    Nevertheless, you are correct when you say "Who loaded it is the least of this guys worries."

    BTW, I can' believe he has a $10,000 bond for manslaughter. I had a $20,000 bond for a class 1 misdemeanor...SMH

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    I saw this in the Charlotte Observer:

    He was previously charged with marijuana possession and underage possession of alcohol, court records show. Both charges were dismissed in 2007. He has no further North Carolina criminal record.

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    Here's what the article said about the mother:

    "We know he loved Jay," said Susan Derby, Jay's mother, saying she isn't angry with Ruble.
    "For me, it's just sadness," said Derby.
    So she is saddened but not angry and knows he loved him.

    But here are comments from the News and Observer readers:

    "I bet everyone had also been drinking."

    "I guess it's fairly difficult to remember all those gun safety rules when in all likelihood Ruble was drunk." (at least they put "in all likelihood)

    "Send the punk off to Afghanistan for 10 years and maybe he'll grow up." (punk???)

    "He was probably jealous that Derby was still in school making something of himself while he was working two dead end jobs probably making minimum wage."

    "Never be friends with rednecks with guns... they will most likely "accidentally" shoot and kill you." (first punk now redneck)

    "The alcohol gave this kid the nerve to do what he didn’t have the nerve to do when he was sober. Throw the book at him."

    "This thug need to rot in prison!" (Punk-redneck-thug...interesting combo)


    I HATE the mob mentality. This guy was NO DOUBT negligent and will pay for it. Even after a conviction and serving a sentence he will still pay with his conscience every day of his life.

    Why do people feel the need to add to things like this? I think it's clear that he made THE WORST POSSIBLE lapse in judgment when it comes to firearm handling, but I don't think all of the people with so many opinions know the young man's character.

    Now he's a punk-thug-redneck that was drunk and jealous who should be shipped to Afghanistan for 10 years before he goes to rot in prison.

    Before the facts come out in any story you have 1,000 people saying "I bet..."

    We have ALL done something stupid. I remember as a teen driving 110 mph on the freeway. Now I look at how negligent that was and would NEVER do that again. Where would I be had I hit a minivan with a family of four? Save for the grace of God, there go I.

    Before anyone else throws this guy under the bus (which is totally unnecessary as he will get his punishment) I hope they will pause and think back to their negligent moment.

    It may not have been pointing a gun at someone or driving 110 mph on the highway but I'm sure it's something. Take a moment to ponder...

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    I agree but like I said IF he knew it was loaded then he should have disclosed that point to the buyer. And again who is to say he did not tell him, we may never know. We may hear more on this as time goes on.

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