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Thread: Fake FBI, Sheriff's and ICE agents storm home

  1. #1
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    Freaky, true and just happened
    http://www.kfoxtv.com/news/21698182/detail.html

    What would you do?

    SANTA TERESA, New Mexico -- [/b]Dona Ana County Sheriff Deputies are investigating a home invasion in Santa Teresa early Monday morning.Police and firefighters intially responded to the scene at approximately 4:30 a.m.Early reports indicate that five men, dressed as FBI agents, sheriff deputies, police officers, and ICE agents broke into the home and tied up the homeowners with yellow zip ties.According to a law enforcement bulletin sent to El Paso area officers, the men were armed with a sawed-off shotgun.Details about what was taken from the home, if anything, has not yet been released.Crime scene investigators arrived on the scene at approximately 7:40 a.m.

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    Sounds like something the zetas might do. Of course, they'd also probably kill the occupants and not leave them alive so I suppose that leave them out eh?

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    exactly how does anyone know they were "fake"? The possibility exists that they were exactly FBI/ICE/Deputies...

    just because they are LE does not mean they are above committing crimes if they think they can get away with them....



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    In Kentucky.....I'll know the ones at my door or they won't get in.

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    If ANY body comes to my home, enters forcefully, without ALOT of LEO vehicles outside with flashing lights and plenty of noise to make their identity unmistakable, they will be met with stiff resistance. IMO no knock warrants are a death sentence for LEO's. No knock warrants are pointless, and serve NO legitimate advantage in catching fugitives or recovering evidence, atleast not in the casesI have read about.

    Any crook can buy a shirt, and in 10 minutes makes a cardboard stencile that reads FBI and spray paint it on the shirt.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Ryan Frederick

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    suntzu wrote:
    SNIP exactly how does anyone know they were "fake"?


    Don't give them any ideas on how to get out of a botched raid.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    I don't care if they were real officers serving a real warrant on the wrong house. I know there is no legal reason for you to breach my home so you get shot, I don't care about the police cars outside. It doesn't matter, you committed a violation so egregious that it negates your office.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

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    DEETED (triple post -- damn software)
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    DELETED (triple post)
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    "...stiff resistence?"

    That's all very good, but the reality is we'd all be dead if we resisted.

    Now AFTERWARDS, our relatives can sue for our wrongful deaths which resulted from such a "tragic misunderstanding" (if they were REAL LEOs)but it won't help us any, being deceased. At least we get to die as free men defending home and hearth, but that's about it -- besides being just another news story on TV -- well, we also can make our relatives rich from lawsuit awards.

    I guess that's something.

    -- John D.

    P.S. Santa Teresa, NM, is so close to the "colonias" out there (near Mt. Christo Rey just up from Sunland Park and Anapra) where Mexican gangs cross the Border to rob American trains, as well ascitizenswho have the misfortune oftheir vehicles breaking down in that sorry area -- so they COULD be gangsters. Yet it sounds like a lot of trouble to go through for what seems to be (at this point) very little gain/payoff for them.


    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    cloudcroft wrote:
    "...stiff resistence?"

    That's all very good, but the reality is we'd all be dead if we resisted.

    Now AFTERWARDS, our relatives can sue for our wrongful deaths which resulted from such a "tragic misunderstanding," but it won't help us any, being deceased. At least we get to die as free men defending home and hearth, but that's about it -- besides being just another news story on TV -- well, we also can make our relatives rich from lawsuit awards.

    I guess that's something.

    -- John D.
    hmmm... makes me wonder why LEOs don'tintentionally break down in those areas in order to apprehend the real criminals...??? That is their job... is it not?


    On another topic... Defending your home becomes a touchy situation when things like this happen.

    Case #1- Real LEOs with a warrant knock on door... ok, no problem.

    Case #2- Real LEOs with a no knock warrant... Hmmm... to shoot or not to shoot? Do I want to make a statement and die? Or take the chance that they're not real?

    Case #3- Fake LEOs break in... How would you know until too late?

    My opinion, legit LEOs should never barge into anyone's house. Period!

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    IMO no knock warrants are a death sentence for LEO's. No knock warrants are pointless, and serve NO legitimate advantage in catching fugitives or recovering evidence, atleast not in the cases I have read about.
    Damn right. If LE came through my door with a no-knock warrant I am keeping a 12ga pointed at them until everyone who steps through my door provides me with ID and the warrant information and I call it in to make sure it's completely legit. Anyone shows hostilities or draws weapons and I'll need a mop to get rid of them completely.

    No-knock warrants are completely pointless. I can understand the use of them for high-crime situations like those where SWAT goes along with, but the problem is that they can be issued for situations where that sort of thing is not completely necessary.

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    Actually, "no knock" warrants make a VERY strong point:

    That you are not a citizen, but a subject, and the Constitution is viewed as an inconvenient obstacle by your local LEA, Court system, and Attorney General.

    Personally, I feel that the practice of no-knock warrants is dangerous to LEOs, unconstitutional in theory and practice, and is a sign that our Courts, Judges, and LEA's are willing and enthusiastic participants in the trend of Creeping Fascism that exists on the Federal level.

    I find such practices to be a sign that our "government" has, indeed, declared war upon the citizenry and on the Constitution, and that there are people in our government that honestly believe that The Bill of Rights is an inconvenient obstacle to be overcome.

    Pray for the future of our nation, dear Brothers and Sisters...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Dreamer wrote:
    Actually, "no knock" warrants make a VERY strong point:

    That you are not a citizen, but a subject, and the Constitution is viewed as an inconvenient obstacle by your local LEA, Court system, and Attorney General.

    Personally, I feel that the practice of no-knock warrants is dangerous to LEOs, unconstitutional in theory and practice, and is a sign that our Courts, Judges, and LEA's are willing and enthusiastic participants in the trend of Creeping Fascism that exists on the Federal level.

    I find such practices to be a sign that our "government" has, indeed, declared war upon the citizenry and on the Constitution, and that there are people in our government that honestly believe that The Bill of Rights is an inconvenient obstacle to be overcome.

    Pray for the future of our nation, dear Brothers and Sisters...
    what he said.

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    Fake Feds?! Oh great, once that gets out that will be the new "copy cat" crime spree.

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    Impersonations are nothing new.... They are gaining in popularity for criminal use. One reason I designed a new full size target to accommadate this issue. The target is being distributed by LE Targets...

    Here it is.... http://www.letargets.com/estylez_item.aspx?item=BWT-CCW

    Note the throat box (no target I have found has a throat box for this purpose), it is in the area where vest DO NOT cover.... This is an area people need to think about utilizing and/or training with.

    My thought behind this design....


    I have used many target designs and I have never really been happy with any of them. Some were to cheesy, some were just poorly designed. Several I have used just plain suckedfor training purposes. As I state below, this target was designed fortraining in stopping a threat intodays realisticconditions, and shot placement (moving or stationary shooting platforms).


    It has the TQ 21 scoring lines for AZ POST qualification's, It has the official AZ DPS CCW scoring zone in the center of mass, It has a 4" head shot zone (the scoring zone in the head is the softest part of the head and most calibers would either stop the theat or at least significantly alter the threat reaction towards you. The head shot zone also realisticallyincompasses the brain stem area.), it also has a 2.5" x 6" throat scoring box (this is a zone that is left unprotected should the bad guy be wearing body armor. Quite a few home invasion suspects are using body armor, when looking to stop a threat all zones need to be considered!). The bullseye's on the top of the target are to be used for trigger reset, which makes for better marksmanship all around. I had a right and left side bullseye placed so that right and left handed shooters would be able to use anatural point of aim when learning/practicing this exercise. I have found that this bullseye placement has made a difference in the learning impact on right and left hand shooters.

    Anyways, that is why I did this project.

    John

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    I didn't realize a 'no knock warrant' was real. Does this exist at a federal level, or state?

    Thanks,
    geoff

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    cloudcroft wrote:
    but the reality is we'd all be dead if we resisted.
    Probably, but that would be the case whether the invaders were LEOs or criminals. If your door is kicked in by a group of armed invaders and you know you are a law-abiding citizen, the odds are at least thousands-to-one that they are criminals. You have no time for mental debate.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Geoff wrote:
    I didn't realize a 'no knock warrant' was real.Â* Does this exist at a federal level, or state?

    Thanks,
    geoff
    It exists at every level in every jurisdiction in this once-free country.

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Anubis wrote:
    you know you are a law-abiding citizen, the odds are at least thousands-to-one that they are criminals.
    Your "if" is an impossible condition.

    You are not a law-abiding citizen. Nobody is anymore.

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    The Washington Times writes:
    Criminalizing Everyone:

    "You don't need to know. You can't know." That's what Kathy Norris, a 60-year-old grandmother of eight, was told when she tried to ask court officials why, the day before, federal agents had subjected her home to a furious search.

    The agents who spent half a day ransacking Mrs. Norris' longtime home in Spring, Texas, answered no questions while they emptied file cabinets, pulled books off shelves, rifled through drawers and closets, and threw the contents on the floor.

    The six agents, wearing SWAT gear and carrying weapons, were with - get this- the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

    Kathy and George Norris lived under the specter of a covert government investigation for almost six months before the government unsealed a secret indictment and revealed why the Fish and Wildlife Service had treated their family home as if it were a training base for suspected terrorists. Orchids.

    That's right. Orchids...
    Read the rest by following the link.

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    Look I am sorry but if they didnt have a bunch of cop cars and all the noise that I would expect from police officers. I mean these could have been realAgents even. They are not angels they can commit crime also. I am just saying nobody would be coming in my house like that because I would have to call the cops myself to make sure they were suppose to be there and they were who they said they were. My girlfriend and I both have pistols and I have 2 Aks too so They would have met alot of resistance trying that sxxt. I am glad that they didnt hurt them though because that would be a confusing situation. Its hard to say what would really happen in that situation but if I was awake before they got in the house I would have called the actual cops and we would have our guns ready but I dont know how much time they had or anything like that. Dont take any chances with you or your loved ones because it is not worth it no matter what

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Personally, I don't know how I'd react if I were no-knock raided.

    I'd hope to make the right decision, but how can you when police no longer have a standard by which we may unambiguously differentiate them from criminal invaders? When police no longer knock, and instead bust in as formerly only a criminal would, how may we know the difference?

    This is the whole point of warrants and due process (well, one of them anyway), and the police throw it out the door at their own peril.

    And then, rather accept the peril they've created, they insist that we have no right to defend ourselves against a criminal invader who later turns out to be a cop, but they have the right to murder us in our justified confusion and righteous but unwise attempts at self-defense.

    Clearly, no-knock raids must cease. If there isn't a gun to a hostage's head, I want to see gentle knocks on doors by guys armed with a warrants, not AR-15s.

    The police are intentionally placing their safety at odds with our rights. If their procedures or safety don't yield, then it's going to be our rights.

    I, for one, I'm not willing to support that. The police need to be the ones to "sacrifice" to defend the American edifice this time. I put "sacrifice" in quotes because the authority they'd be relinquishing was already usurped against moral right, ethical propriety, and historical legal originalism.


    Edit:
    marshaul wrote:
    Geoff wrote:
    I didn't realize a 'no knock warrant' was real. Does this exist at a federal level, or state?

    Thanks,
    geoff
    It exists at every level in every jurisdiction in this once-free country.
    QFT.

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