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Thread: Fight for the Right to Arm Bears

  1. #1
    Regular Member Eeyore's Avatar
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    The first rule of public speaking: start with a joke.

    A guy’s sitting in a bar. A panda bear walks in, sits down at the bar, and orders a burger. After finishing his meal, the panda stands up, pulls out a pistol, fires it into the air, and walks out the door, all without saying a word.

    “What the &#*@ was that?” the guys asks the bartender.

    The barkeep just shrugged, “He’s a panda bear. He eats, shoots, and leaves.”

    The point of this joke is that a minor change in spelling, punctuation, or word usagecan fundamentally change the meaning of a sentence. (For those of you who didn’t get it, it’s “eats, shoots, and leaves” vs. “eats shoots and leaves” in this case.)

    I bring this up because I’ve read many threads where people have posted their letters, faxes, or e-mails to government officials, restaurant managers, etc. Often, they are riddled with misspellings and/or punctuation errors. And too often, they’re posted hereafter the message has already been sent.

    Anti-2A types already believe all gun owners are ignorant hillbillies. Don’t play into their stereotypes by writing like one. We all take pride in our attention to detail when it comes to firearms. We should be just as unimpeachable in our written correspondence. It hurts your cause and distracts from your message if your writing is not impeccable. (“This guy’s an idiot—he can’t even spell! Why should I listen to him?”)

    Please note: I’m not claiming to be perfect, and I’m not trying to appoint myself as GrammarCzar for the board. I’m saying we should all work together to present the best impression--both in person and in correspondence. I think it’s safe to say that everyone on this board wants put their best foot forward, and most are willing to help you[/i] put your[/i] best foot forward. We generally want the same thing, after all.

    Composing your message in Word or some other word processor before pasting it into e-mail will catch a lot of typos and misspellings, but spell-checkers aren’t perfect. Aside from random typos and misspellings, the big offenders seem to be


    • there/their/they’re
    • its/it’s, and other incorrect apostrophes (e.g. “many American’s think”)
    • misplaced or excessive commas
    • other assorted grammatical errors (adjectives vs. adverbs, etc.)
    Also, sometimes the sentence we “get down on paper” doesn’t quite convey the meaning we had intended--especially when we're upset or in a hurry.

    Whether people post their message on this forum before or after they send it, the criticism is almost always constructive. If you’re going to take the time to send correspondence, use all the resources available to you and take the time to post it on the forum for some review before[/b] you send it. We'll all be glad you did.
    Guns don't kill people. Drivers on cell phones do.

  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    +1

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    +2

    Unfortunately, stereotypes exist for a reson.

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    +3

    Stereotypes? Are you referring to the Panda joke, or some new kind of typewriter that plays music?:celebrate

    Regards
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    anal retentive people picking on those that don't spell correctly. So you are volunteering to write all of these letters for those here that don't have a solid grasp of the English language ?
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Glock34 wrote:
    anal retentive people picking on those that don't spell correctly. So you are volunteering to write all of these letters for those here that don't have a solid grasp of the English language ?
    Actually some of us have provided that precise service to members of the forum.:what:
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Glock34 wrote:
    anal retentive people picking on those that don't spell correctly.
    Deduct 10 points for using a sentence fragment.

  8. #8
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    KBCraig wrote:
    Glock34 wrote:
    anal retentive people picking on those that don't spell correctly.
    Deduct 10 points for using a sentence fragment.
    Now that right there is funny .... I don't care who you are that's funny.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Eeyore wrote:
    “He’s a panda bear. He eats, shoots, and leaves.”
    The way I heard it, it was Casanova.

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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    KBCraig wrote:
    Glock34 wrote:
    anal retentive people picking on those that don't spell correctly.
    Deduct 10 points for using a sentence fragment.
    Now that right there is funny .... I don't care who you are that's funny.
    + won

  11. #11
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    I completely agree and I am one who has made comments and suggestions regarding this very thing. Anyone who tries to make excuses for poor writing skills should probably stop and think a moment. It's never too late to correct ignorance or bad habits, and a little humility goes a long way.

    I learned a long time ago that "you are what you write". The individual who told me this, was talking about writing letters or school papers and not taking into consideration of your audience and how the impression they might have about you. At my recent job, we hired a young lady fresh from college from a pool of resumes collected at a job fair. Most were the same sort of thing one might expect to see from such a venue. But this young lady stood out for two reasons and was hired because of them over others. She send a cover letter (glory be.. who would have thought). And her cover letter was beautifully written.. so much so, it obviously impressed a hiring manager enough to tell me about it.

    People make judgments and form impressions on how you write in forums such as this. Like it or not, it's a fact of life. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with this.

    Oh, BTW. Another frequently misused word is "your" when the writer means "you are" and should be using "you're". Also bring and take are constantly abused. And then there is the infamous misuse of lists with the comma missing between the last two items (I know, some will say this is no longer necessary, but I can prove it with logic).

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  12. #12
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    ... And then there is the infamous misuse of lists with the comma missing between the last two items (I know, some will say this is no longer necessary, but I can prove it with logic).
    There is no "logic" in the rules of grammar, and I can prove that with an example:

    To end a sentence with quotes, especially if the quotes mark a clause, anyone with common sense will realize that the period should go after the closing quote, because as we are all taught in grade school, you put a period at the end of a sentence.

    But the actual rules for this (check a newspaper sometime) say that you put the quote after the "sentence-ending" punctuation.

    So this is right:

    The quick brown fox said, "I'm a lazy dog."

    While this is wrong:

    The quick brown fox said, "I'm a lazy dog".

    This one drives me nuts, and is a great example of why English is said to be one of the hardest languages to learn.

    I once heard that this rule developed to prolong the life of the relatively fragile punctuation mark keys in the old movable type machines of early printers, but who knows.

    TFred


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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    SouthernBoy wrote:


    "I learned a long time ago that "you are what you write". The individual who told me this, was talking about writing letters or school papers and not taking into consideration of your audience and how the impression they might have about you. At my recent job, we hired a young lady fresh from college from a pool of resumes collected at a job fair. Most were the same sort of thing one might expect to see from such a venue. But this young lady stood out for two reasons and was hired because of them over others. She send a cover letter (glory be.. who would have thought). And her cover letter was beautifully written.. so much so, it obviously impressed a hiring manager enough to tell me about it."

    [line]
    Not picking on you, SouthernBoy, but if I may illustrate:
    One usually selects an applicant from a pool of applicants, a resume from a pool of resumes.

    I learned a long time ago that "you are what you write". The individual who told me this was talking about writing letters or school papers and not taking into consideration your audience and the impression they might haveof you. At my recent job, we hired a young lady fresh from collegebased on herresume, which was selectedfrom a pool of resumes collected at a job fair. Most were the same sort of thing one might expect to see from such a venue. But this young lady stood out for two reasons and was hired because of them. She sent a cover letter (glory be.. who would have thought). And her cover letter was beautifully written.. so much so, it obviously impressed a hiring manager enough to tell me about it.


    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Well, since we're correcting peoples sentance structures, let's start with the title of this thread.

    Instead of "Fight for the Right to Arm Bears", it should be "Fight for the Right to Keep Bears Armed."



  15. #15
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    I once heard that this rule developed to prolong the life of the relatively fragile punctuation mark keys in the old movable type machines of early printers, but who knows.
    I DO, I DO!!!! Pick me, teacher!!! :celebrate

    As a letterpress printer, and someone who has taught HOURS of workshops on the history and practical application of letterpress printing, I can assure you that what you wrote is essentially correct.

    I'm a letterpress printer with close to 2.5 tons (yes, that's TONS) of letterpress equipment (three presses, and dozen of cases of type), almost 10 years experience as a printer and typesetter, and close to 5 years of experience teaching in an historical reenactment setting. I've taught typography on the collegiate level. I'm not telling you this to brag, just to give you a frame-of-reference for my statements...

    "Periods" and "commas" are some of the most delicate sorts of type when it comes to cast-lead hand-set type. A quotation mark is substantially more durable because of the width of the "character", and so a pretty strong argument can be made that putting sentence-ending punctuation marks INSIDE quotations marks had a practical, economic, and operational reason, at least historically.

    From a typopgraphic view, putting sentence-ending-punctuation inside quotation marks is simply more visually elegant. It provides a smoother "tone" to a page, and helps alleviate the "holes" that a quotation mark followed by period followed by one (or two) spaces would create between sentences.

    Many modern punctuation, typesetting, and layout "rules" don't appear to make much sense at first glance, but almost ALL of them have historical basis--either in the practical concerns of hand-set type or earlier-established conventions of hand-written manuscripts. But they don't teach "history" in schools anymore, so it's understandable why most people have difficulty understanding all the "rules" being shoved down their throats my the educational system.

    We, as 2A activists, should know better than the average person, that without an historic context, rules CAN be difficult to understand. Much of our time, as 2A activists, is spent on people who do not know and understand the historical context of the Constitution. A little education can make things MUCH easier to understand, as we all know.

    I hope this helps put some of those weird rules in context and perspective for you.



    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggressionand this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Education and experience give context to rules. Well said.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    2a4all wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:


    "I learned a long time ago that "you are what you write". The individual who told me this, was talking about writing letters or school papers and not taking into consideration of your audience and how the impression they might have about you. At my recent job, we hired a young lady fresh from college from a pool of resumes collected at a job fair. Most were the same sort of thing one might expect to see from such a venue. But this young lady stood out for two reasons and was hired because of them over others. She send a cover letter (glory be.. who would have thought). And her cover letter was beautifully written.. so much so, it obviously impressed a hiring manager enough to tell me about it."

    [line]
    Not picking on you, SouthernBoy, but if I may illustrate:
    One usually selects an applicant from a pool of applicants, a resume from a pool of resumes.

    I learned a long time ago that "you are what you write". The individual who told me this was talking about writing letters or school papers and not taking into consideration your audience and the impression they might haveof you. At my recent job, we hired a young lady fresh from collegebased on herresume, which was selectedfrom a pool of resumes collected at a job fair. Most were the same sort of thing one might expect to see from such a venue. But this young lady stood out for two reasons and was hired because of them. She sent a cover letter (glory be.. who would have thought). And her cover letter was beautifully written.. so much so, it obviously impressed a hiring manager enough to tell me about it.

    Yes, I freely admit to being subject to typos and grammatical errors and it irks me when I do screw up. So I am not offended when someone catches an error I have made and points it out to me. My biggest problem is my mind gets away from my fingers all the time and I tend to be negligent in going back over my text before submitting it.

    Thanks for the catches - I will not go try to find a washcloth to get some of this egg off of my face.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    architect wrote:
    Eeyore wrote:
    “He’s a panda bear.* He eats, shoots, and leaves.”
    The way I heard it, it was Casanova.
    A prior GF remarked on my randiness one day and I replied, "I'm a bit of a rake, I don't gather leaves."

  19. #19
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Dreamer wrote:
    TFred wrote:
    I once heard that this rule developed to prolong the life of the relatively fragile punctuation mark keys in the old movable type machines of early printers, but who knows.
    I DO, I DO!!!! Pick me, teacher!!!** :celebrate

    As a letterpress printer, and someone who has taught HOURS of workshops on the history and practical application of letterpress printing, I can assure you that what you wrote is essentially correct.

    I'm a letterpress printer with close to 2.5 tons (yes, that's TONS) of letterpress equipment (three presses, and dozen of cases of type), almost 10 years experience as a printer and typesetter, and close to 5 years of experience teaching in an historical reenactment setting. I've taught typography on the collegiate level. I'm not telling you this to brag, just to give you a frame-of-reference for my statements...

    "Periods" and "commas" are some of the most delicate sorts of type when it comes to cast-lead hand-set type. A quotation mark is substantially more durable because of the width of the "character", and so a pretty strong argument can be made that putting sentence-ending punctuation marks INSIDE quotations marks had a practical, economic, and operational reason, at least historically.

    From a typopgraphic* view, putting sentence-ending-punctuation inside quotation marks is simply more visually elegant. It provides a smoother "tone" to a page, and helps alleviate the "holes" that a quotation mark followed by period followed by one (or two) spaces would create between sentences.

    Many modern punctuation, typesetting, and layout "rules" don't appear to make much sense at first glance, but almost ALL of them have historical basis--either in the practical concerns of hand-set type or earlier-established conventions of hand-written manuscripts. But they don't teach "history" in schools anymore, so it's understandable why most people have difficulty understanding all the "rules" being shoved down their throats my the educational system.

    We, as 2A activists, should know better than the average person, that without an historic context, rules CAN be difficult to understand. Much of our time, as 2A activists, is spent on people who do not know and understand the historical context of the Constitution. A little education can make things MUCH easier to understand, as we all know.

    I hope this helps put some of those weird rules in context and perspective for you.
    While there may be something to the typeset argument, placement of the period inside the quotes is correct for a very different and more logical reason.

    If you think about it the sentence ending period is actually part of the quoted text, not the text produced by the writer. Therefore the period is correctly placed INSIDE the quote to indicate that the original speaker ended the sentence. If you clip the original text of the speaker, then you signify this with a string of three periods inside the quotes and the period is then placed outside the quotes. Not so confusing really.

    That said ... as a contrarian I reserve the right to violate these rules at random as I see fit.

    Regards
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

  20. #20
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    TFred wrote:
    So this is right:

    The quick brown fox said, "I'm a lazy dog."

    While this is wrong:

    The quick brown fox said, "I'm a lazy dog".
    And this is also correct:

    The quick brown fox said he was a "lazy dog".



  21. #21
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    How about a special purpose sub-forum devoted to helping less erudite correspondents, with grammar, punctuation and spelling, on their request and submission of material for improvement, that may be messages, letters, resolutions, &c?

  22. #22
    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    How about a special purpose sub-forum devoted to helping less erudite correspondents, with grammar, punctuation and spelling, on their request and submission of material for improvement, that may be messages, letters, resolutions, &c?
    Could be useful.

    Anyne who can articulate those needing help as "less erudite" might be qualified to be a helper.

    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

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    Thanks. I heard SLimbaugh claim erudition the other day and was appalled.

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