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Thread: OCer at NorthLake Mall thrown out of Northlake Mall

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    When the Northlake mall opened, there almost immediately started being problems with gangs and fights. On the weekends the mall would hire 7 to a dozen uniformed off duty CMPD officers that would partner with Security to deescalate potentially violent situations. Security was constantly kicking people out and every other weekend there was a breaking up a large fight. My brother said as a security officer he was fighting someone every other week, and off duty CMPD was constantly having to get involved and throwing people in jail. He said the job for him was fun, but the shoppers were afraid to shop on the weekends. Because of these situations, the mall (which is private property) banned the open display of weapons because gangs were coming in using them to scare rival gangs and start fights.

    Just a few months ago the mall enacted a new policy banning minors from the mall after 7pm unless they were with an adult. Security and off duty CMPD worked in tandem to enforce this rule and now the mall is once again a pleasant place to shop and walk. incidents are down to a minimum and the volume of off duty CMPD has decreased.

    On Friday (Nov 20) my brother (who is mall security not off duty) received a call over his radio of a "White male with a short hair cut" walking around the mall with a holstered handgun in the open. Security approached the man and asked him to leave the mall and lock his weapon in his car. It is reported that the man refused saying he didn't have to that because what he was doing was legal. The Security staff reminded him that this was private property and that he needed to put away his weapon. The man allegedly stated he knew his rights and that he was not doing anything wrong and walked away from the security officers. The supervisor then visibly followed the man stalling till off duty CMPD could show up. The man turned around and it is reported that he became agitated with the security supervisor and started raising his voice asking why he is being followed.

    Off Duty CMPD arrived and demanded the man leave the mall and put away his weapon. The man allegedly said he wasn't going to because he is doing nothing illegal, and CMPD officers drew down on the man and ordered him to the ground. The man put up his hands asking the officers to take it easy, but CMPD wasn't being patient and ordered the man (guns still drawn) to lay on the floor. They seized his weapon and placed him in handcuffs. Security said that they just wanted him to leave, so CMPD kicked the man and his gun out of the mall.


    Assuming this is all true and not distorted (I believe my brother is a reliable source, although people can miss-state and mess stories up), Do you think the staff and Off duty handled the situation properly? What is your opinion? I'm not sure what to think about all this.

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    Godscreation wrote:
    Assuming this is all true and not distorted (I believe my brother is a reliable source, although people can miss-state and mess stories up), Do you think the staff and Off duty handled the situation properly? What is your opinion? I'm not sure what to think about all this.
    The Mall staff and off duty PD did their jobs. As open carriers or concealed carriers, we must know the law completely.

    Now I am not familiar with this mall but I am assuming that they have conspicuous signs stating no firearms to be displayed in the open. It seems as though from the story that concealed carry is not prohibited at the mall.

    With all of that said, the mall is private property. Do as you are told. Telling security and police that you are executing your rights is not bright if you don't actually fully know the laws yourself.

    Typically, in order for you to be charged criminally with possession of a firearm concealed and/or open, obvious (conspicuous) signs should be placed on these premises in question. Some places are automatically off limits such as educational facilities of all types, state and federal buildings/property, parades, protests, etc. Outside of the signs up or not, most of the time you will get asked to leave. You may even be allowed to return granted your gun has been locked in your vehicle or you have taken it home or whatever but you MUST LEAVE when asked. If you refuse to do so, you can and likely will be charged with trespassing. The person in question could have possibly been arrested and charged with illegally carrying a firearm but the mall may not have had everything in place to enforce that or they just don't want to. All they wanted the person to do was leave, they have the right really to ask anyone to leave, and refusal to do so becomes criminal.

    Staff and police handled the situation as properly as they were supposed to. The mall may be a "public" place but it is private property, it is not a government owned shopping center or plaza, it is private, and just as you may not want certain people to come on your property for different reasons, they don't have to let you on their property and can suspend/expell you from it.

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    IMO, they acted correctly.

    He was within the limits of the law until he was asked to leave.

    As tek stated, I believe you are responsible to know all the laws when you OC.

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    It never was a gun related crime. Once he was asked to leave by someone in authority or responsible for the property and refused it became trespassing. The mall got what they wanted by getting him out. They probably don't pursue many trespassing charges. As far as drawing on him, it's borderline for me. I think they should have informed him that it was a trespassing charge and not an OC issue. But if he's getting agitated and refusing to comply already he's headed in a bad direction. If he got off with no charges he's lucky.

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    chiefjasonsaid "If he got off with no charges he's lucky"



    YEP he is

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    State Researcher .40 Cal's Avatar
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    Trespassing. Know the the law, or fall under it.

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    Regular Member lonewolf2810's Avatar
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    If it were me and they ask me to take my weapon to my car and lock it up that is what I would do out of respect as I am on their property not mine. He is a LUCKY man if he got out of it. I wonder did he get his gun back? If so he is lucky in that respect also. What a moron.

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    Quick update and some additional details:

    The man was not charged with trespassing. CMPD asked what Security wanted to do and Security simply requested the guy get booted. The man had his weapon returned but was permanently banned from ever entering mall property again.

    Also to note:

    There are no signs posted on doors. When the man asked to see the no weapons policy in writing, security said that didn't need to show him, but that this was the policy of the mall for a while. I also know that when a new policy is enacted in that mall, Security will take a couple of days to pass out fliers and pamphlets with updated rules. Since this policy was in effect for years now he probably never got that paper or flier.

    I asked my brother about CC and he said there is no policy stating you cannot CC, and the fact that nobody knows you have a weapon doesn't bring the topic up for discussion with security. I suggest if you want to shop at the mall, just CC quietly.

    This is not the first time Security has asked someone to leave for OCing. A couple of months ago my brother had to request that a man dressed in cowboy attire put his huge bowie knife that he was Ocing back in his vehicle. The man politely apologized and said he didn't want to get in trouble, and asked if he would be allowed back in. My brother laughed and said he absolutely could return after he properly secured his weapon in his vehicle.

    Security also warns shoppers that there are frequent car break-ins on weekends still, and advises people not to stow valuables in plain site or if possible not even stow valuables at all in your car. That again, is another reason to CC. I'm not about to leave my expensive gun in the car.

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    Regular Member jerz_subbie's Avatar
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    That OC'er needs to study up on his laws before stepping out of the house again, OC'ing or not!

    As for the CMPD drawing down on him, I don't think you can fault them as they don't know how he is going to react after already being agitated by the requests to leave.

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    Again, because there were no signs, they only had the ability to ask the person to leave and failure to do so is strictly trespassing.

    Had they had conspicous signs up around the property on doors, windows, etc, then I believe CMPD could have actually charged him with possession of a firearm where prohibited. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but that is how I've read the NC Statute.

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    Once he refused to leave he was in violation of NC General Statute:

    14‑159.13. Second degree trespass. (a) Offense. A person commits the offense of second degree trespass if, without authorization, he enters or remains on premises of another:
    (1) After he has been notified not to enter or remain there by the owner, by a person in charge of the premises, by a lawful occupant, or by another authorized person; or
    (2) That are posted, in a manner reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, with notice not to enter the premises.
    (b) Classification. Second degree trespass is a Class 3 misdemeanor

    He is very lucky he was not arrested, however, he could have received a citation for it and have been cut loose. The only part of the story that seems odd is that once officers draw and point their weapons they usually have to do a use of force report and an arrest is pretty much a given. It's not usual for that to happen in front of so many people and no physical arrest follows.

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