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Thread: Surviving an Economic Collapse: A Perspective from one who went through it in Argentina

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    http://james4america.wordpress.com/2...-in-argentina/

    Deals with a WROL (Without Rule Of Law) situation, including what to expect and how to prepare. It's a long (but entertaining) read that contains a lot of good information. "Part III: Guns, Ammo, And Other Gear" may be of particular interest.

    Peter Schiff, the man who accurately and specifically predicted a number of events of the U.S. recession, has recently said that the Dollar will crash sometime during Obama's first term. Maybe this story is more relevant to us than it appears...

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    Wow..that was a long read....Thanks for the post.

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    Funny... and timely.

    The book I am currently reading is "Patriots: A Novel of Survival in the Coming Collapse" by James Wesley Rawles. It deals with just these scenarios and is about a group of people who got together several years before the collapse (which is outlined in the beginning of the book) and began to make their preparations for the inevitable.

    We are on a very dangerous and ever-steeper slope to the abyss of disintegration as a people and a nation. We could well live to see the complete dissolution of the once great United States. What we are seeing is deliberate, was planned, and is desperately sought by those who have brought us to this point in our history. These acts are treasonous and as such, deserve to be dealt with accordingly in good time.




    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Best not to "read" Patriots, but to MEMORIZE IT. A "special" friend says its a first class field ops manual despite all the disclaimers.

    The crash is coming next year. We have not had an economic crash yet, not in the stock market. Weve had a real estate crash and derivatives (off the books gambling) crash, but NOT stock markets. Theyve raided stocks for money to pay down short positions. The rich guys have eaten a big one so far. Good for them!:celebrate

    Society Generale (big Euro bank), Roubini, other big names in finance are all predicting it next year. Buy all the ammo you can.

    And dont fall for the gold scam, theres a commodities crash coming too. Gold is useless as currency. Gold is at a record high and the first rule of investing is "buy low..." Stay in LEAD and food.

    For real advice on economics, follow Yahoo Finance stories (yahoo is WORTHLESS for most part) and even more importantly, check out the comments on the articles, sometimes some very experienced folk drop the dime on the comments sections.

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    Capn Camo wrote:
    Best not to "read" Patriots, but to MEMORIZE IT. A "special" friend says its a first class field ops manual despite all the disclaimers.

    The crash is coming next year. We have not had an economic crash yet, not in the stock market. Weve had a real estate crash and derivatives (off the books gambling) crash, but NOT stock markets. Theyve raided stocks for money to pay down short positions. The rich guys have eaten a big one so far. Good for them!:celebrate

    Society Generale (big Euro bank), Roubini, other big names in finance are all predicting it next year. Buy all the ammo you can.

    And dont fall for the gold scam, theres a commodities crash coming too. Gold is useless as currency. Gold is at a record high and the first rule of investing is "buy low..." Stay in LEAD and food.

    For real advice on economics, follow Yahoo Finance stories (yahoo is WORTHLESS for most part) and even more importantly, check out the comments on the articles, sometimes some very experienced folk drop the dime on the comments sections.
    I think you're correct about gold. Gold would be fine in a scenario where the crash was not total to the point of immediate and absolute base survival because people would feel that things would return and they would have a valid exchange media in hand. But in the worse case scenario food, fuel, shelter, guns, and ammunition would be absolute necessities. Ammo could easily be used for barter, but one would not want to expend with too much of it.

    I was at a major gun show on Friday and ammunition prices have really dropped from what they were early this year. Damn, I should have bought more.

    The idiots in Washington are borrowing and spending our nation into oblivion. When they have borrowed all they can from the Fed and foreign countries, what do you think will become collateral? How about the government controlling the mortgage industry which means they control the vast amount of homes in the nation. Then if China decides on a margin call, who then owns our homes and our land?


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    What scared me about the post was... "during Obama's first term". This suggests he'll have a second term... SCARY!

    I agree. Gold will be worthless in a collapsed economy. What good would it do other than be a paperweight? Although it would be good to stockpile it if you had a chance, for after things rebounded.



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    Just finished the article. Great read! Definitely makes me want to do some more stockpiling...

    Having been to Argentina numerous times (wife from there) both prior to 2001 and after 2001 I have to say I never felt threatened there. I've been out on the streets at all times of the day, both in cities like Buenos Aires and in the middle of nowhere in the Andes. I never experienced hostility, nor flet in danger. My wife only had someone try to steal her purse once, but they failed. She even stays there with our two daughters for weeks/months.

    My point is that Argentina is a great place and I hope the article doesn't give the wrong overall impression of it. However, I don't have the experiences the author has living there and I know there's places that are VERY dangerous. around B.A.



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    kasteer71 wrote:
    What scared me about the post was... "during Obama's first term". This suggests he'll have a second term... SCARY!

    I agree. Gold will be worthless in a collapsed economy. What good would it do other than be a paperweight? Although it would be good to stockpile it if you had a chance, for after things rebounded.

    I must disagree, gold will be good for "baiting" the field to bring in food sources.:what:
    I have 250 lbs of lead on hand now, but need more powder, alas no navy port
    this far inland, couple bags of powder for those guns will last a while.
    But I think a John McCain would be even scarier, Can you imagine how bad it
    would be with the same policies, and the repubs voting for it because their
    leader wants it. At least they pretend to be conservative with BHO.

    But I think the dumbest survival commercial is those seed bank ones.
    If the world is so bad you need to grow your own food, you want hybrid
    seeds that can resist bugs, and longer growing season. Yet they advertise
    non-hybrid seeds. When the SHTF I could care less about royalties owed
    to someone elsewhere on the planet for his modified seeds. I care about
    feeding my family, and extending my safety zone from poachers.
    My first try at chickens and I get a california model, damn thing crows in the
    morning sunrise, but the eggs still work so I can tolerate her.

    Still need a windmill generator to power the night camera system long term.
    But finally have several options for primers and powder long haul.
    Unfortunately I can't stock up on a hemp supply for making rope till after the
    collapse.




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    Very interesting article. I read this part, then look at what is being reported in the news, and it makes me wonder how close to that are we here in the states?



    "The teacher continued “You see, we have a middle class that suddenly turns to poor, creating a society of basically poor people, there is no more middle class to cushion tensions any more. Middle class suddenly discovers that they are overqualified for the jobs they can find and have to settle for anything they can obtain, there for unemployment sky rockets, too much to offer, too little demand. You see they prepare, study for a job they are not going to get."


    Of course, looking at google shows Buenos Aires as not being quite so bad either.

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    The inversion (if I can use that term) is whats gonna be bad- the rich suddenly made poor. What the h_ do poor people have to lose??

    Gold is going ridiculous not because of its worth, thats declining due to lack of industrial use, but because of dollar devaluation.

    Rule of law will have to transcend to the Constution and basic principles of PRIVATE PROPERTY which was the bane of existance in Europe.

    We dont need Roman law, the Big C is good enough. Instead of nosey Governments (out of control monsters) we can get back to PEOPLE negotiating amongst themselves. State level.

    god I couldnt be happier if the Fed collapsed.:celebrate:celebrate double dancing bananna happy

    I doubt the Obamanation That Made Desolate will get a second chance, the Media are crucifying him now. He was put in there to get his political a** kicked by the crash (so far) and now that the white European masters are done with him, its 'out you go, Bo."

    McCain wasnt STUPID enough to become President during this...

    excellent article, my question still remains:

    "What to do in the interim until society is stripped of the things we havent needed for 6,000 years to survive?" i see that as the big question, those who survive to deal with that, basically reverting to caveman status if necessary. They didnt have firearms yet they survived. I think mental preparedness it most important. Too much society is based on TV and GROUP THINK, these people will be fighting for windows to jump from if it all goes down.

    Imagine a world with no OPRAH.

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    SlackwareRobert

    But I think the dumbest survival commercial is those seed bank ones.
    If the world is so bad you need to grow your own food, you want hybrid
    seeds that can resist bugs, and longer growing season. Yet they advertise
    non-hybrid seeds. When the SHTF I could care less about royalties owed
    to someone elsewhere on the planet for his modified seeds.



    You might want to rethink your seed plan, hybrid seeds will not reproduce viable seeds. In simple terms any seeds you get from a hybrid plant will not grow so there is no year 2 crop.Non-hybridseeds will grow and you can save the seeds from them to grow your next years crop that is why you would want non-hybrid seeds in a SHTF situation.



    Orphan
    Throw me to the wolves and I will come back leading the pack.

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    The only precious metal i am stockpiling at the moment is lead. Should governed society collapse, we will still have to barter and trade for essentials. Precious metals and ammo will be good currency :]
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

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    All this talk about bartering, y'all are expecting a pretty civilized society after the fall huh?

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    Y'all seem to forget that we have a small sigment of society that has been getting along just fine without all the frills of the modern world. And they are quite prosperous.

    The Amish and Mennonites.

    We don't have to adopt their religious views, but their lifestyle may be worth looking into, for survival purposes.

    Unless someone has come up with a recipy for gold soup/stew, I have no use for it. I'll be investing in lead and Mason Jars. If the USD does become totally worthless I see food and ammo becoming a more viable currency for barter, at least where I live.

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    Hey, why buy gold when you can dig it yerself? Thats what I do!!! Sittin on a couple troy that came direct from ole Ma Earth by my hand.

    Last season, every greenhorn and tourist was out there just trashing the creeks. More prospectors than anglers. Of course they didn't get nuthin cuz they have no clue how to find it!

    I agree on the lead stockpile. Buying it when I can, where I can.

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    ABNinfantryman wrote:
    All this talk about bartering, y'all are expecting a pretty civilized society after the fall huh?
    Muchof our society will remain civilized and work together for mutual survival as localized communities, while the rest will most likely becomelooting hordes. I leave it to you to discern which members of our current society will gravitate to which group.

    The groups that form civilized working communities will certainly have to be prepared to fend off the looters with lethal force.

    Ya know, an economic collpase in this country might be a good thing. It would create an oppertunity to purge our society of all the slackers amongst us. Culling of the herd is always a good thing, it improves the quality of the gene poole.

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    Great Article,I can see I have some strong points and of course I need lots of work in some areas as well. I believe we as a Nation are well on our way down this road. I think it best not to be caught flat footed.I would like to think I would share what I have with those in need but I would also use force to protect my family and keep it from being taken from me.I also continue to pray daily that my children and grandchildren might be spared from all of this, but too much tells me it's coming. I did notice the comment about the SKS. It can be set up for detach-mags which I think most folks know .I for one really like the 7.62#39. It's so heart breaking to see our Great Country desolve like this......but the end is not yet, and "WE" are a land filled with "Great Patriots".........Semper Paratus (Always Ready) Food,Fuel and Ammo



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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    ABNinfantryman wrote:
    All this talk about bartering, y'all are expecting a pretty civilized society after the fall huh?
    Muchof our society will remain civilized and work together for mutual survival as localized communities, while the rest will most likely becomelooting hordes. I leave it to you to discern which members of our current society will gravitate to which group.

    The groups that form civilized working communities will certainly have to be prepared to fend off the looters with lethal force.

    Ya know, an economic collpase in this country might be a good thing. It would create an oppertunity to purge our society of all the slackers amongst us. Culling of the herd is always a good thing, it improves the quality of the gene poole.
    Trust no one, not even your neighbors. The masses will not remain civilized, they will look to tyrants for protection or become tyrants themselves. With the dissolution of the law of men the law of nature will reign supreme to which society becomes one of dog eat dog. Just look at New Orleans after Katrina, rapes happened at the dome amidst thousands of people who all turned blind eyes.

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    ABNinfantryman wrote:
    Trust no one, not even your neighbors. The masses will not remain civilized, they will look to tyrants for protection or become tyrants themselves. With the dissolution of the law of men the law of nature will reign supreme to which society becomes one of dog eat dog. Just look at New Orleans after Katrina, rapes happened at the dome amidst thousands of people who all turned blind eyes.
    Hmm, These are the same people that did not leave the city because they most likely thought they could loot and bask in the lawlessness that they seem tocrave so much.

    I live out over 4 hours drive from any major metro area for a reason, I can see cities turning into a lawless shitthole with no available resources if their regular deliveries of food and supplieswere delayed by as little as 3 days or more.
    the Y2K Bug? Even if the worst of the predictions would have materialized, I do not think it would have affected us too badly where I live. No power? Nothing new about that!
    We already preserve our own food and smoke meats for ourselves, We would just be eating more venison and fish than usual.

    Heating? that what the 7-8 full cords of firewood are for that we split each summer, The only commodities we would need to be fully cmfortable are flour, sugar eggs & butter. (no farms are nearby)

    I could very easily switch to an Amish lifestyle (minus the religious beliefs) since I am halfway there already with our way of life. I feel sorry for the people that are forced to live in or close to large cities. That is a heck of a lot of people that would turn into predatory animals in a real hurry, expecially since 12% of the population is at that level already.

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    ABNinfantryman wrote:
    Trust no one, not even your neighbors. The masses will not remain civilized, they will look to tyrants for protection or become tyrants themselves. With the dissolution of the law of men the law of nature will reign supreme to which society becomes one of dog eat dog. Just look at New Orleans after Katrina, rapes happened at the dome amidst thousands of people who all turned blind eyes.
    Im afraid History points that out. Our Nation is unique in History being formed under our Constitution by MEN forged in the furnace of adversity.

    Now we have a Nation full of welfare recipients (especially the Corportions) instead of real MEN and WOMEN with backbone and survival instinct.


    "Gold would be fine in a scenario where the crash was not total to the point of immediate and absolute base survival because people would feel that things would return and they would have a valid exchange media in hand."

    Gold is somewhere between impractical and useless for currency/media of exchange. That was part of the problem that led to paper currency, gold cannot be easily divided up to buy groceries or gasoline. Silver is better for that. At any rate, neither has any intrinsic value - its all pretend. Both (paper too) are only useful, under economic theory, to store up excess 'value' for later use. If theres no value... SHTF..

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    I hope this is worth the read. I just printed it out.

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    Current events have me thinking about the story this man shared, over and over again.

    We're starting to see parallels arise in our own socio-economic environment. I believe that IF our system collapses, when that happens, there will still be people (like some of us) who will retain a semblance of desire to keep our constitutional republic in place.

    Nothing in the constitution and BoR says a Federal government is essential to the function of the nation, it is only a union of the states, and the states of the people. We would see a lot of people, military, police, etc try to keep lawlessness in check. Things would go bad but I believe it would stabilize.

    Also, yes, people (especially those of us in cities) will still need to barter and trade. Trade what you have/can do for what you need. Those of you in the country are near-self sufficient. But you're also secluded should you need help.

    If anything can be taken from that person's shared story, it's to prepare, train, store and prepare some more. Better to have said preparations and not need them, then vice versa.
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

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    i just spent over an hour reading it all and taking everything in.



    i noticed that i am more than prepared to survive the wilderness,but only have a few days worth of water and non refrigerated food in stock as of now.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    For those who've referenced James Rawles book "Patriots", he has another version of that book written as non-fiction and without the storyline titled "How to Survive the End of the World as We Know it".

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    RockyMtnScotsman wrote:
    For those who've referenced James Rawles book "Patriots", he has another version of that book written as non-fiction and without the storyline titled "How to Survive the End of the World as We Know it".
    Im listing to Patriots audiobook, I really like it so far Ill check out the other thanks

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