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Thread: might be going to up north... Best rounds?

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    So I'm heading up north with the fam. to get a tree. My father and I were wondering what rounds to carry in-case we come across a bear that attacks us. I have a .40 S&W my father has a .357 and also my brother has a 9mm. Does anyone know what Gr. rounds we should all carry? I've been reading the internet all day and ppl seem to be all over the board. So I thought I'd ask my fellow AZ OCer's what they think. Thanks much for everyone's time and opinions!


    -Nate

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    12g or 7.62

    really though for a pistol i have no idea. .50ae i guess? but than again just the noise alone might make a bear turn around. either way i would question if a .40 or 9mm would do anything to it unless you shot it square in the face

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    Grapeshot wrote: Or this http://www.cabelas.com/gun-inventory...w460-mit.shtml

    Smaller, and specifically designed for bear attacks.

    I'm not a big fan of S&W though and their prices are pretty high.

    I'd personnaly get this: http://www.ruger-firearms.com/produc...kan/index.html

    Cheaper and also designed for bear attacks. Plus, it takes 45 Colt loads for practice.

    I carried a 9mm in VA in bear country, but we only have little black bears here who are much less aggressive, rarely attack humans, tend to hide when they hear any noise and are a lot smaller than grizzlies. I don't know if a 9mm would kill a black bear, but I think it would, combined with a pepper spray,probably give bear an idea to look for berries or fishies instead of picking on me.

    But if I went to grizzly country, you bet your ass I'd be in the gun store buying this baby before my trip...

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    Honestly, bears are not much of a problem up here. Yes, we have them, but they tend to stay away from people. They also are the smaller black bears.

    A handgun is fine for what you are planning on doing. If you really wanted an 'anti-bear' gun, I'd suggest a large caliber gun (454 cassull, S&W 500, etc) or a good rifle (30-06, 308, etc).



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    Nate245 wrote:
    My father and I were wondering what rounds to carry in-case we come across a bear that attacks us.
    -Nate
    Can you outrun your father? Problem solved.

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    Regular Member TOF's Avatar
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    You really need to carry at least one .416 Rigby or larger. The bear up here are meaner than all get out.



    Get a big Cow Bell and clang it every few feet as you go along the trail to let them know din din is on the way in.



    :?
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    TOF wrote:
    You really need to carry at least one .416 Rigby or larger. The bear up here are meaner than all get out.



    Get a big Cow Bell and clang it every few feet as you go along the trail to let them know din din is on the way in.



    :?
    Ha, you know how they say you can identify bear droppings, right? "They're full of bells and pepper spray."

    No seriously, I was gonna say .454 Casull if you have a gun that can take 'em. I usually carry some great steel-cored .357 mags from DoubleTap---those suckers will take off a good chunk of the bear if you ever have to use them.
    My location says I am from Sierra Vista, AZ which is where I live now but I actually lived in MO for 26 years! So please stop telling me I don't know what I'm talking about when I post in the Missouri forum!

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    Nate245 wrote:
    So I'm heading up north with the fam. to get a tree. My father and I were wondering what rounds to carry in-case we come across a bear that attacks us. I have a .40 S&W my father has a .357 and also my brother has a 9mm. Does anyone know what Gr. rounds we should all carry? I've been reading the internet all day and ppl seem to be all over the board. So I thought I'd ask my fellow AZ OCer's what they think. Thanks much for everyone's time and opinions!


    -Nate
    .22 LR hollow-point, one in each eye. My oldest brother's favorite method.

    Problem solved.

    Seriously, in all of my years growing up and living in N. Arizona, I've never had a "bad" bear (or mountain lion, in fact) encounter. The closest encounter I've had was with a Lion momma and her cub (when I was 4 years old, no less -- should have seen my mother's reaction!). I've run into black bears a few times on Mingus mountain (fishing at the little pond on top), but they've always made a point to get their drink of water, and then amble off, barely acknowledging that I was there.

    Unless they're sick or rabid (or something like that), they're going to avoid you -- especially if there is more than one person.

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    He asked what grains, not what caliber. Sheesh.

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    Regular Member TOF's Avatar
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    The greatest danger in the mountains of Northern Arizona, where I live, is:

    1. Other Drivers.

    2. Other people.

    3. Bad weather.

    4. Yourself.

    I carry standard self defense loads unless hunting.

    9MM = 124 Gr.

    .357 = 158 Gr.

    .40 S&W = 165 Gr.

    .45 = 230 Gr.

    Having met up with as many as 3 bear a day off and on over 56 years of hiking and hunting the worst danger I have ever faced has been range cattle. Every bear has run as fast as possible in the other direction. The few big cats encountered did the same.

    Enjoy your trip but don't sweat the bear.


    If you woke up breathing, congratulations! You get another chance.

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    I've had a few run ins with javelina that got a little belligerent, but that's about all.

    I do sometimes worry a bit about stumbling on somebody's marijuana field while out in the boondocks and have been known to carry an AR-15 just in case I run into something like that.
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    Carry the .40 loaded with these:
    http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...roducts_id=210
    200 grain hard cast and loaded pretty hot. Up against a bear you want penetration, and these will do it better than any other .40 load I know.
    Doubletap also makes a similar .357 load.

    If these are unavailable, I'd recommend the heaviest grain bullets you can shoot.

    A much better option would be a rifle.

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    .357 Mag 180 grain hard cast Buffalo Bore. Almost certainly won't need, but just in case. Used to carry 12 gauge (old habit from AK)-gets tiring. Mark

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    The problem with stopping a bear is that if you aim for vitals, and you penetrate, destroy heart, lungs, etc; is that they keep on coming for a while. Place your shots at the shoulder, and you physically destroy the body parts with which it is approaching you. If it can't walk/run anymore, problem solved.

    Realize how massive a bear is. The oxygen it inhaled into its lungs two minutes ago, is still in its blood. You can make a shot that will definitely kill the animal, eventually. Or, you can actually stop it from moving towards you anymore instead. Taking a headshot is damn near futile. A really big one, hell, you could strap a grenade to it's chest and pull the pin, that sucker still won't stop for a good 30 seconds or so. Penetration isn't the problem. It's the 'stored energy' in its system. They are so damn big its like a flywheel. Do some research on bear attacks (is it really an attack? I mean, it's a bear just doing what bears do...), and you'll see far too many reports of people who put every shot on the money, and that sucker just keeps coming.

    Shoulder with a 12ga slug. It might even live with proper attention.... If you care to notify those who might do such a thing. Pardon me, I value most animals above humans... Humans are crap.
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    ixtow wrote:
    The problem with stopping a bear is that if you aim for vitals, and you penetrate, destroy heart, lungs, etc; is that they keep on coming for a while. Place your shots at the shoulder, and you physically destroy the body parts with which it is approaching you. If it can't walk/run anymore, problem solved.

    Realize how massive a bear is. The oxygen it inhaled into its lungs two minutes ago, is still in its blood. You can make a shot that will definitely kill the animal, eventually. Or, you can actually stop it from moving towards you anymore instead. Taking a headshot is damn near futile. A really big one, hell, you could strap a grenade to it's chest and pull the pin, that sucker still won't stop for a good 30 seconds or so. Penetration isn't the problem. It's the 'stored energy' in its system. They are so damn big its like a flywheel. Do some research on bear attacks (is it really an attack? I mean, it's a bear just doing what bears do...), and you'll see far too many reports of people who put every shot on the money, and that sucker just keeps coming.

    Shoulder with a 12ga slug. It might even live with proper attention.... If you care to notify those who might do such a thing. Pardon me, I value most animals above humans... Humans are crap.
    That's all true for big brown bears, but in the context of Arizona - we've just got black bears, which average not much bigger than me.
    http://arizonagunowners.com - The best AZ gun board around!

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    "Pardon me, I value most animals above humans... Humans are crap."

    Well, there goes the invite for a hunting trip.

    My wife used to hold the same views -- and then she grew up, became an adult and put away childish things.


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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    JesseL wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    The problem with stopping a bear is that if you aim for vitals, and you penetrate, destroy heart, lungs, etc; is that they keep on coming for a while. Place your shots at the shoulder, and you physically destroy the body parts with which it is approaching you. If it can't walk/run anymore, problem solved.

    Realize how massive a bear is. The oxygen it inhaled into its lungs two minutes ago, is still in its blood. You can make a shot that will definitely kill the animal, eventually. Or, you can actually stop it from moving towards you anymore instead. Taking a headshot is damn near futile. A really big one, hell, you could strap a grenade to it's chest and pull the pin, that sucker still won't stop for a good 30 seconds or so. Penetration isn't the problem. It's the 'stored energy' in its system. They are so damn big its like a flywheel. Do some research on bear attacks (is it really an attack? I mean, it's a bear just doing what bears do...), and you'll see far too many reports of people who put every shot on the money, and that sucker just keeps coming.

    Shoulder with a 12ga slug. It might even live with proper attention.... If you care to notify those who might do such a thing. Pardon me, I value most animals above humans... Humans are crap.
    That's all true for big brown bears, but in the context of Arizona - we've just got black bears, which average not much bigger than me.
    I stand educated. ;-)
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Pistol-Packing-Preacher-in-PV wrote:
    "Pardon me, I value most animals above humans... Humans are crap."

    Well, there goes the invite for a hunting trip.

    My wife used to hold the same views -- and then she grew up, became an adult and put away childish things.
    Aw, that's cute.

    Evil does not grow in any animal. Only in Man. But I shouldn't have to explain that to a Preacher, eh?
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Evil in humans? True. It's in our nature.

    Evil in animals? Can be taught. It might not be the animals fault, but still, there it is.

    But at the same time, I hold the value of human life above that of animals, period.

    I know that others look at things differently. That's OK.

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    Pistol-Packing-Preacher-in-PV wrote:
    Evil in humans? True. It's in our nature.

    Evil in animals? Can be taught. It might not be the animals fault, but still, there it is.

    But at the same time, I hold the value of human life above that of animals, period.

    I know that others look at things differently. That's OK.
    Quite a few of those "Others" buy there red meat from a butcher shop so no animals have to be harmed.
    If you woke up breathing, congratulations! You get another chance.

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    TOF wrote:
    Pistol-Packing-Preacher-in-PV wrote:
    Evil in humans? True. It's in our nature.

    Evil in animals? Can be taught. It might not be the animals fault, but still, there it is.

    But at the same time, I hold the value of human life above that of animals, period.

    I know that others look at things differently. That's OK.
    Quite a few of those "Others" buy there red meat from a butcher shop so no animals have to be harmed.
    I assume that was said with tongue firmly-in-cheek.

    It is amazing to me (as someone who grew up hunting) how many people do not have a clue as to where the products they buy in grocery stores comes from (either vegetables, meats, dairy, or even processed foods).

    McMagic Land, I guess.

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    Regular Member TOF's Avatar
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    I'm pleased to see at least one person understood what I was saying. I have done a bit of farming and hunting myself PPP.

    Way too many think it all falls from the sky or grows on trees.
    If you woke up breathing, congratulations! You get another chance.

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    I'm sure your trip up North went well. When I go out in the woods of Northern Arizona, I carry my Redhawk .44, 5.5" barrel240 grn. Solids. That is my sidearm. I also sling my Mossberg 590 with SLUGS up first. I'm not hunting, just protecting. The Ruger is small enough to carry comfortably and the Mossberg is Comforting. Just my nickels worth of knowledge......adjusted for inflation.

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